Defending Ideas

America’s safety net is meant to help families get back on their feet. But too often, it does the opposite by discouraging work and earnings due to benefit cliffs.

On this episode of Defending Ideas, host Nic Dunn sits down with U.S. Senator from Ohio, Jon Husted, and U.S. Representative from Utah, Blake Moore, to discuss their new legislation: The Upward Mobility Act.  

This new bipartisan proposal would allow a group of states to pilot innovative reforms that combine multiple anti‑poverty programs and gradually phase out benefits as earnings increase. The goal: help families transition from government assistance to work‑based self‑reliance without falling off a financial cliff.

Show notes:

• The Upward Mobility Act One Pager
• Let states fix the welfare system that Washington broke
• Strengthening the American Dream: Addressing benefits cliffs to empower safety net participants to pursue work and opportunity

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

Open enrollment is one of the most overlooked forms of school choice in America. While debates often focus on private school vouchers or charter expansion, families in many states already have the ability to choose among public schools — at least in theory.

On this episode, host Nic Dunn is joined by Christine Cooke Fairbanks, Sutherland's education policy fellow, and Jude Schwalbach, Reason Foundation's senior policy analyst, as they examine how open enrollment works, where it falls short, and why transparency and consistent implementation matter. They discuss the barriers families face, the policy gaps between states, and what meaningful reform would require to truly put parents in the driver’s seat of public education.

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

According to some estimates, America spends nearly $1.5 trillion each year across 114 federal programs designed to fight poverty and support vulnerable families. So why do so many families remain stuck? 

On this episode of Defending Ideas, Nic Dunn sits down with Clarence H. Carter, commissioner of the Tennessee Department of Human Services and author of "Our Net Has Holes in It," for an inside look at America’s social safety net from someone who has spent more than three decades administering it at the federal, state, and local levels.
 
Carter argues that the core problem isn’t a lack of compassion or funding — it’s a lack of shared vision. Instead of orienting public benefits around America’s founding ideal of freedom, the system has become a maze of disconnected programs that too often trap families through benefit cliffs, perverse incentives, and bureaucratic complexity. As Carter puts it, the safety net should not merely deliver benefits — it should expand human freedom and help families move toward work-based self-reliance. 

The conversation explores comprehensive reform, state-led innovation, the Upward Mobility Act, and why empowering states to test integrated solutions may be the most realistic path forward.

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

Utah’s literacy rates have become a statewide priority — and for good reason. In this episode of Defending Ideas, Nic Dunn and Sutherland's education expert Christine Cooke Fairbanks sit down with Andrea Brandley, senior education analyst at the Kem C. Gardner Policy Institute, Carolyn Sharette, president of American Preparatory Schools, and Leland Anderson, principal of American Heritage School’s Salt Lake City campus. 

Together, they examine new research showing that only half of Utah's third graders read on grade level, discuss why literacy is foundational to long-term opportunity and self-government, and explore the reforms lawmakers are considering this legislative session. They also highlight bright spots across Utah’s education landscape and consider how education choice — public, charter, private, and home-based learning — can help drive the innovation and individualized support students need to read well, early, and with confidence.

Show notes:

• The Future Is Watching: Understanding Utah’s Early Literacy Landscape
• We need to improve literacy. Is education choice part of the solution?

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

Pres. Donald Trump's recent call to nationalize elections has reignited debates about election security, federal power, and the proper role of states. This week, Nic Dunn sits down with Sutherland Institute's Derek Monson to discuss why the Constitution clearly states that election policy is primarily a state matter, and how that actually makes voting more secure. They also explore multiple bills the Utah State Legislature is considering that could reform voting and election policy in the state. 

Show notes:

• Trump urges Republicans to 'take over' and 'nationalize' voting
• Sutherland election policy issue page

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

A new national report ranks all 50 states on upward mobility — and Utah comes out on top. In this episode of Defending Ideas, Nic Dunn sits down with Archbridge Institute Chief Economist Justin Callais to unpack what upward mobility really looks like, why states play a decisive role, and what policymakers can learn from the states that are getting it right.

Show Notes:

• Social Mobility in the 50 States: 2025 Edition
• To restore hope for families in poverty, let states lead on welfare reform
• Let states fix the welfare system that Washington broke

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

With Utah's legislative session underway, lawmakers are weighing major questions about religious freedom, judicial authority, and the proper balance of power between states and the federal government. 

In this episode of Defending Ideas, Nic Dunn is joined by Sutherland's constitutional law and religious freedom fellow, Bill Duncan, to preview the key bills driving these debates. Their conversation explores how courts impact public policy, where legislative authority begins and ends, and how federalism can protect pluralism in a diverse society. Along the way, they examine what these proposals mean for religious liberty, democratic accountability, and self-government in Utah.

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

Utah’s 2026 legislative session is shaping up to be one of the most consequential for education in recent years. 

In this episode of Defending Ideas, host Nic Dunn is joined by Sutherland's Christine Cooke Fairbanks to break down the biggest education debates lawmakers are preparing to take on, from classroom technology and literacy policy to school choice, accountability, and the evolving role of state leadership in education. 

The conversation offers a clear look at what’s driving these proposals, where tensions are emerging, and what the outcomes could mean for students, parents, and educators across Utah as the session approaches.

Show notes:

• Banning phones and boosting literacy: Utah’s 2026 education legislative priorities

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

Nearly one in three Americans now say they have no religious affiliation — but that doesn't mean they've rejected religion outright.

On this episode of Defending Ideas, Nic Dunn talks with AEI Senior Fellow and Sutherland Institute Visiting Scholar Sam Abrams, Sutherland's Bill Duncan, and Dee Allsop from Heart+Mind Strategies to explore groundbreaking new survey data on America's "religious nones." 

The findings challenge common assumptions: when people are exposed to clear, factual information about religion's civic contributions, attitudes shift — sometimes dramatically. What does this mean for religious freedom, persuasion, and the future role of faith in public life? And how should leaders talk about religion in a secular age? 

This conversation offers a hopeful roadmap for principled persuasion in a polarized world.

Show notes:

• Talking about Religion in a Secular Age: How Religious "Nones" Perceive the Value of Religion

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.

Is the federal government equipped to manage America’s safety net? In this episode of Defending Ideas, host Nic Dunn sits down with Tony Woodlief, senior executive vice president for State Policy Network and senior fellow for the Center for Practical Federalism. They examine whether Washington, D.C. is failing low-income families — and whether states are better positioned to deliver effective, accountable support. The conversation focuses on the design and performance of major safety-net programs like SNAP, the tradeoffs between centralized control and state flexibility, and how federalism could lead to better outcomes for the people these programs are meant to serve. Along the way, they discuss incentives, work, accountability, and what meaningful safety-net reform could look like in practice.

Show Notes:

• What states can expect with the new SNAP match: Options to reduce state error rates
• Work & Opportunity Initiative

Defending Ideas is a weekly podcast produced by Sutherland Institute. On this show, we are committed to renewing the principles of common sense conservatism, making you a better champion of sound ideas. Visit defendingideas.org.