DEI After 5 with Sacha

A lot of organizations didn’t suddenly “get tired” of DEI—many were fatigued long before 2020, then sprinted to copy what competitors were doing. In this episode, Sacha Thompson talks with inclusive leadership expert Stacey Gordon about what’s real, what’s performative, and how leaders build equitable practices that actually hold up under pressure.

We discuss DEI fatigue, corporate inauthenticity, values vs. imitation, and the hidden systems—like cronyism dressed up as meritocracy—that keep inequity in place. You’ll also hear practical guidance on talent decisions, hiring, and leadership accountability.

When the world feels nonstop, self-care can’t just be bubble baths and “take a break” advice—it has to include boundaries, community, and a realistic way to keep going without losing yourself. In this episode, Sacha reconnects with therapist and social justice advocate Ashley McGirt for a grounded conversation about exhaustion, advocacy, and what it actually looks like to reset.

Ashley shares lessons from her work in community advocacy (including serving as a health chair with the NAACP), her experiences traveling to over 60 countries, and a powerful story that connects resilience to the treacherous journey of sea turtles. Along the way, we talk about communication boundaries, building a culture of care, and small practices that help you stay human in chaotic times.

Parenting right now can feel like trying to protect your kids from the world and prepare them for it at the same time. In this episode, Sacha Thompson talks with Pooja Kothari about how parents can navigate today’s global and national issues without fear-based messaging—by building critical thinking, media literacy, and the habit of questioning assumptions.

Pooja shares her journey from public defender at the Legal Aid Society in Brooklyn to becoming an anti-oppression facilitator. Together, they unpack how oppressive language shows up in systems (including the legal system), how it shapes power dynamics, and what parents can do to notice what we unconsciously perpetuate—at home, in school conversations, and in community.

In this episode, we are sharing the Fully Flavored Business Podcast episode, in which co-founders Lace Flowers and Sutton McCraney welcome Sacha Thompson, a leadership development strategist and founder of the Equity Equation. Sacha shares her insights on building psychologically safe, high-performing workplace cultures and the importance of inclusion in organizational settings. She discusses her journey in the equity and inclusion space, highlighting the necessity of having willing participants for successful initiatives.

Tune in to explore meaningful conversations around human-centered leadership and workplace culture, and discover how Sacha’s work is making a difference in the community.

In this episode of DEI After Five, we continue our insightful conversation with wellness coach KutiMack, diving deep into the crucial topic of sleep and its significance for overall wellness. The discussion highlights the modern struggle of feeling numb to stress and anxiety due to the normalization of these feelings in our daily lives. Kuti emphasizes the body’s remarkable adaptability and resilience, while warning against the dangers of frequently testing our limits. Listeners can expect to gain valuable insights and practical tips on how to prioritize sleep and manage stress effectively. Tune in for this enlightening part two!

The cannabis industry is growing—but most people are still confused about the basics: hemp vs. marijuana, what’s legal where, and what opportunities are actually emerging for jobs, entrepreneurship, and inclusive access. In this episode, Sacha Thompson talks with Nicole Vanderhorst, CEO & Founder of W.H. Farms Co. (North Carolina), about building a vertically integrated botanical manufacturing business rooted in the industrial hemp sector.

We break down the real-world landscape of cannabis in the U.S., how policy shifts shape the market, and why manufacturing and workforce pathways matter—especially for communities that have historically been excluded from opportunity.

In February 2025, the U.S. Department of Education issued a “Dear Colleague” letter that signaled aggressive enforcement around race-conscious programs—sparking widespread fear, fast policy changes, and real disruption across higher education. In this episode, we break down what that guidance set in motion, how it impacted student support and campus trust, and what student-centered leadership looks like when institutions are under pressure.

We also discuss what happened next: federal judges blocked enforcement of key directives in April 2025, and later developments (including the government dropping its appeal) left the guidance effectively dead—but not before many campuses had already made changes and absorbed damage.

In this podcast swap episode of the Improve Work Podcast, host Daniela Tancau welcomes Sacha Thompson, founder of Equity Equation, to explore how team leaders can enhance their relationships with team members. The conversation delves into essential leadership skills, approaches to managing both their own emotions and those of their team, and the importance of trust in fostering a healthy workplace culture. Sacha shares her expertise in building inclusive environments and fostering psychological safety, offering listeners practical insights to improve their leadership effectiveness. Tune in for valuable strategies to elevate your team dynamics and create a more motivated, high-performing environment.

College access isn’t just about admissions decisions—it’s about the support systems that help students arrive, adjust, and stay. In this episode, Sacha Thompson reflects on her own path into higher education and the kind of program support that helped her succeed—especially for students who are first-generation or from underserved backgrounds.

She’s joined by Terrence Gresham, a talent advisor and consultant, to unpack what’s happening as colleges dismantle, rebrand, or scale back DEI-related programs—and what that means for recruitment, trust, and student success.

There is a lot of noise right now about the so-called “end” of DEI.

Some organizations are quietly backing away from their commitments. Others are changing the language but keeping some of the work. And many leaders are trying to figure out what they can still say, do, or stand for without becoming the next headline.

But underneath all of that is a bigger truth: the need for inclusive leadership has not gone away. If anything, this moment is making it even more necessary.

The backlash against DEI has exposed something many of us have known for a long time. In too many workplaces, inclusion was never fully built into the culture. It was added as a statement, a training, a campaign, or a temporary priority. It sounded good in public, but it was often missing from the day-to-day experience of employees.

That is where the real problem lives.

Because when people talk about backlash, what they are often reacting to is not just the language of DEI. They are reacting to years of shallow efforts, inconsistent follow-through, and leadership teams that wanted the appearance of progress without the discomfort of real change.

And people can tell the difference.

Employees know when an organization’s values are reflected in decisions, behaviors, and accountability. They also know when those values only show up on a website, in a statement, or during moments of public pressure. That gap between what an organization says and what people actually experience is where trust starts to erode.

This is why the future of inclusive leadership cannot be built on performance. It has to be built on practice.

Inclusive leadership is not about saying the right words. It is about creating the conditions where people can contribute, raise concerns, challenge ideas, and be seen as fully human without being punished for it. It is about how decisions get made, whose voices shape them, and what happens when harm occurs. It is about whether leaders are willing to listen when the feedback is inconvenient, and whether they are prepared to change something meaningful in response.

That kind of leadership requires more than intention. It requires courage.

It also requires sacrifice, which is the part many organizations still struggle with. Everybody wants inclusion until it costs something. Until it means sharing power. Until it requires rethinking long-standing norms. Until accountability has to apply to people at the top, not just everyone else.

That is why so much of what has been called inclusion has felt like an illusion.

You cannot market your way into trust. You cannot statement your way into credibility. And you cannot ask people to believe in belonging while they are still navigating exclusion, silence, or retaliation behind the scenes.

This moment is asking leaders a harder question than “Do you support DEI?”

It is asking: What kind of workplace are you actually building?

Because even if the terminology changes, employees are still looking for the same things. They want trust. They want fairness. They want compassion. They want stability. They want to know that their voice matters and that leadership can be counted on to act with integrity. Those needs do not disappear because a company changes its language. They become even more important when people feel uncertainty in the culture.

That is where inclusive leadership has an opportunity to mature.

The future of this work belongs to leaders who understand that inclusion is not a side initiative. It is a leadership practice tied directly to culture, trust, retention, innovation, and risk. It shows up in how meetings are run, how feedback is handled, how conflict is addressed, how opportunities are distributed, and how leaders respond when someone says, “Something here does not feel right.”

It also belongs to organizations that are willing to move beyond optics and into honest examination.

That means looking at where the friction points really are. Where are people experiencing the biggest disconnect between the organization’s values and their everyday reality? Where do employees feel unsupported, unheard, or left out of key decisions? Where are certain groups carrying a heavier burden to navigate the culture, while others are insulated from it?

These are not abstract questions. They are culture questions. Leadership questions. Business questions.

And they are exactly the kinds of questions organizations should be asking if they want to build workplaces that can withstand pressure, change, and uncertainty.

The backlash against DEI may have changed the conversation, but it has not changed the underlying need. People still want workplaces where they can do their best work without navigating unnecessary harm. They still want leaders who know how to build trust, repair it when it breaks, and create environments where people feel respected and supported.

That is why inclusive leadership still matters.

Not because it is trendy. Not because it sounds good. But because organizations cannot build durable cultures without it.

The leaders who will move forward well in this moment are not the ones trying to win a debate about terminology. They are the ones doing the deeper work of aligning values with behavior, commitments with systems, and leadership with accountability.

That is the future.

And in many ways, it is also the test.

Because the real question has never been whether organizations know how to talk about inclusion.

It is whether they are willing to lead in a way that people can actually feel.