Dennis & Barbara's Top 25 All-Time Interviews

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Out of the Depths 

Day 1 of 4

Guest:                            Ed Harrell

From the Series:         The Sinking of the USS Indianapolis

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Bob:                Sixty years ago this week on the night of July 30, 1945, just weeks before the end of World War II, a Japanese submarine launched torpedoes that would sink the USS Indianapolis.  Marine Ed Harrell was on board that night.

Ed:                  When I actually left the ship, and there I prayed that somehow the Lord would see me through what lie ahead, and yet I had the foggiest idea that I'm going to be out there for four-and-a-half days.  There's times when you pray, and there's times when you pray, and there is a difference.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, August 1st.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Of the nearly 1,200 men who were onboard the Indianapolis on that night only 317 survived.  Ed Harrell was one of the survivors, and we'll hear his story today.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.  Dennis?

Dennis:          Bob, I want you to imagine with me a pretty dramatic scene.  Just consider yourself being 20 years old, you're a Marine, you're tough, you're physically fit, but you're alone, you're in the ocean, you've just lost your ship, and you and about 80 others are floating in the middle of the night in the ocean in lifejackets.  We're going to hear a story – one of the most compelling stories I think I've ever heard from a gentleman who joins us on FamilyLife Today – one of the survivors of the USS Indianapolis.

Bob:                A man who doesn't have to imagine what you just described because he lived through it.

Dennis:          That's exactly right.  Ed Harrell joins us on FamilyLife Today.  Welcome to the broadcast, Ed.

Ed:                  Thank you so much.  It's a delight to be with you.

Dennis:          Ed is not only a survivor, but he was a businessman for 38 years.  He's served as a member of the board of trustees at Moody Bible Institute, a great ministry.  He and his wife Ola, who have been married since 1947 – that's a lot of years, that's a lot of years, live in Paris, Tennessee.  They have two children, eight grandchildren, and four great-grandchildren.

Ed:                  That's right.

Dennis:          You've lived quite a life, Ed, but you're one of the few, one of the few survivors of that tragedy.  Take us back, first of all, to when you signed up.  Why in the world did you sign up to be a Marine?  It was 1943, is that right?

Ed:                  That's right, 1943.  I don't know that I can even know why I really did at the time, but I knew that the war was getting pretty close to home, it sounded to me.  In fact, when I heard that the Japanese and the American forces were having quite a battle at Midway, I was thinking that Midway was maybe between San Francisco and Hawaii, and so I thought, you know, they're getting pretty close to America, so, actually, I had just finished my junior year in high school, and I volunteered then for the Marine Corps.

Bob:                You were 17, 18 years old?

Ed:                  I was 18 when I – I actually became a Marine when I was 18.

Bob:                You know, Ed, my son is a junior in high school, and the thought of my son saying, "I'm going to sign up to be a Marine in the middle of this kind of conflict, as a parent, I'm not sure I'd endorse that plan.  Were your parents behind it?

Ed:                  Yes, I think they pretty much agreed.  Dad pretty much agreed.  They didn't necessarily want to see me leave, but they knew, too, the little Silvertone radio that we had was telling us quite a bit what was happening in the Pacific, and I didn't have much problem convincing them that I wanted to go.  In fact, I have two grandsons in the Marine Corps today.

Dennis:          Do you remember that time when you said goodbye to your dad?

Ed:                  I do.  My dad was 37 or 39 years old, and I thought he was an old man then, but I told him goodbye at the bus station.

Dennis:          Did you hug?

Ed:                  Yes, yes, we did.

Dennis:          Were there tears?

Ed:                  There were some tears, there were some tears.

Dennis:          What did he say to you?

Ed:                  I don't know that I can remember what he said, but I'm sure that the advice that he gave me, he was a fine Christian man, and I'm sure it was some good, solid advice that he was giving me.

Bob:                Why the Marines?  Why did you pick them instead of the Army or the Navy or the Air Force?

Ed:                  I wondered sometimes why if I picked the wrong one, but I really don't know.  I even considered, after I got in the Marine Corps, that I would be a paratrooper.  After I got through sea school, then they said – after I got through boot camp, they said, "You're going to sea school," and I didn't know what that meant, either, but I went through sea school, and then they said, "You're going aboard a large combatant ship," and so I waited, then, until the Indianapolis was in port and caught it at San ...

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Out of the Depths 

Day 2 of 4

Guest:                           Ed Harrell

From the Series:         Mercy at Sea

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Bob:                Sixty years ago this week, Ed Harrell was afloat in the Pacific.  His ship, the cruiser USS Indianapolis, had been sunk by Japanese torpedoes.  Many of the crew members had not escaped. Those who had, found themselves battling for their lives on the open seas with no help in sight.  What was in sight were sharks.

Ed:                  You can't imagine, and I can't explain, you know, the feeling that you have.  You know that at any moment that the shark could get you, and you wonder, you know, am I going to be next?  You know, you pray and you pray more, and you pour your heart out to the Lord, and just hope and pray that somehow, some way, that He will be faithful to the promise that you feel that He's made to you and that you'll be able to endure.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, August 2nd.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll hear a powerful story today of courage and faith as we speak with one of the survivors of the USS Indianapolis.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  I somehow missed this in my study of U.S. history.  I don't know that I ever was aware that on the night of July 30, 1945, just weeks before the end of World War II, a Japanese submarine, I-58, launched a spread of torpedoes at the USS Indianapolis in the Pacific Theater. Two of those torpedoes found their mark and, in less than 15 minutes, this cruiser sank in the Marianas, and there were almost 1,200 men on board the ship.  More than 800 of those men did not survive the attack or the days that followed that attack.  And I don't know, Dennis, that I'd ever heard about that battle or about the sinking of the ship, but it's truly a compelling story, especially when you consider that some 300 men were rescued days later.

Dennis:          Yes, and we have one of those men who was rescued back with us.  Ed Harrell joins us again on FamilyLife Today.  Ed, welcome back.

Ed:                  Thank you.

Dennis:          I want to express my appreciation for you, as a veteran, just for serving our nation and also for coming here on our broadcast and telling the story, a dramatic story, of what has to be one of the most phenomenal survival stories, really, Bob, in all of the World War II and maybe in the history of the United States.  I mean, what you had to endure and go through.  But we'll get to that in just a moment. 

                        Ed is a businessman, was on the board of trustees of Moody Bible for a number of years.  He and his wife Ola [ph] have a couple of children and a number of grandchildren and great-grandchildren, and he is a survivor of the USS Indianapolis.  Ed, I want you to take our listeners back, because you shared earlier the story of standing on the deck of this boat – this great, massive boat, over 600 feet long, at midnight as it's sinking in less than 15 minutes.  What were you hearing at that moment?  It's pitch black, there's a little bit of light from the fires that are burning midship, but what was the sound like?  Was it of screams of people?  Were there explosions?

Ed:                  There were still explosions going on for a good while.  In fact, when the ship actually went under there were still explosions that were taking place below deck.  I don't know that I'm waiting to listen to see what might be taking place.  I am eager to get off, and I make my way, then, to the port side and hung onto that rail and said my prayer before I entered into the water, and I knew, beyond any shadow of doubt, that the Lord had, through the Spirit, was bearing witness with my spirit that He was with me and that I would make it, somehow, some way.  

                        I know, later on, when I was interviewed, they asked me, "What were you thinking out there?  Did you think that you were going to make it?"  And I said, "I thought of the 30-day leave that I would get for being a survivor and be able to go home," because I hadn't been home for a good while, and I was thinking about going home, frankly.

Bob:                You had one what you've described as a kapok jacket, a life preserver, is that what that was?

Ed:                  That's right.

Bob:                And I guess I'm wondering – were there lifeboats on board the ship?  Were there inflatable rafts?  Was it "man the lifeboats?"

Ed:                  No word of that kind was given.  In fact, you didn't have time, they didn't have time.  I could look up and see life rafts hanging, and those kapok jackets hanging, but no word was given to cut those loose, and I never saw a life raft.  There were floater nets, likewise, that later floated up, and they spread them out, and boys could somewhat stand in those – not completely, but at least it would keep the sharks from coming up through after them.  And then the life rafts, then, some of those floated loose, but I never saw a raft, I never saw one in the water the whole time.

Dennis:          That first moment you hit the water, you burst through the surface, you got clear of the oil so you could breathe.  Did you begin swimming away from the sinking ship at that point?  I mean, again, to those of us who are laymen, a ship going down is supposed to create some kind of vacuum or – and suck survivors back down after it.  Did that occur?

Ed:                  That was my thinking, and I was I a rush – not necessarily a good swimmer, but I was in a rush to get away from the ship, and I got away from it maybe 50 yards, then, to turn, then, to watch it as...

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FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript

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Out of the Depths 

Day 3 of 4

Guest:                        Ed Harrell

From the Series:       Survival in the South Pacific 

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Bob:                Sixty years ago this week, Ed Harrell was one of a few hundred men floating in the Pacific following the sinking of the USS Indianapolis.  In the four days that he was afloat, Ed saw some of his fellow sailors drift away from the group to be eaten by sharks.  Some who tried to swim toward an imaginary shore who never came back.  For Ed, the memories are vivid.

Ed:                  I can see it today, and I think maybe I'd like to look at it and say that the Lord reminds me, even today, of those incidents, and as He reminds me of those, then they help to strengthen my faith and my resolve to live a life for Him today.

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, August 3rd.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Where did Ed Harrell's hope come from when it appeared all reason for hope was gone?  Stay with us.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  You know, we've heard a story this week, Dennis, about a ship under attack.  And then we've heard about the ongoing horror and terror of living in the middle of the ocean, bundled up with your buddies, hooked with your lifejackets to one another as the sharks encircle you in the waters and wondering, "Does anyone even know we're out here or will we die at sea?"  No food, no fresh water except for a thundercloud that comes by and gives you a little bit of a rain shower.  You hear a story like this, and you wonder where does the will to survive in the midst of that come from?  I think of myself and think, "When would I just lay my head back and say, "Okay, I'm ready to die.  I'd rather do that than keep living like this."

Dennis:          Yes, in fact, there's a story that Ed Harrell, who joins us again on FamilyLife Today.  Ed, welcome back to the broadcast.

Ed:                  Thank you.

Dennis:          There's a story you tell, Ed, of a Marine buddy who was ready to do the very thing Bob was talking about.  He was ready to quit, and you kind of – the picture I had from reading your book was you kind of grabbed him by the life jacket and looked him in the eyes, and you gave him a reason to believe.

Ed:                  I pretty much gave him an ultimatum, really, in that he had tried to convince me that he was going to commit suicide.  He'd gone into the water head first and all of that oil in his eyes and then, you know, you can imagine – you take your hand, and you try to rub that oil out, but the more you rub your eye, you're rubbing salt in, and you're kind of taking that salt that's in the water, you're grinding your eyeballs with that.  And then the sun then, you know, beaming off of that water, then through the daytime.  By the second day, Spooner was determined that he was going to commit suicide, and he mentioned that two or three times.

                        Anyway, I recall that I just got ahold of Spooner, and I turned him to me, and I kind of looked him squarely in the eye, and I said, "Spooner, there's only two of we Marines out here, and whenever a sailor is gone, there's still going to be two Marines, and you're going to be one of them with me," and I kind of turned him to me, and I fashioned – hooked his lifejacket then onto mine, and I swam with him then through that night, and then – it was sometime then the third morning that he wanted me to release him, and he made a vow to me that he would fight for life as long as there was breath in him because of him being able to survive as long as he had through that night, and I released him, then, the next day.

Bob:                You and some 300 of your shipmates survived in the waters in the Pacific from the time that your boat was attacked just after midnight on the 30th of July in 1945 when the Indianapolis went under in about 15 minutes.  You survived for a period of, what was it, four days, five days?

Ed:                  It was four-and-a-half days, yes.

Bob:                And you survived that, as you've already shared with us this week, there was – was it just a single rain shower that passed over that gave you a little bit of water?

Ed:                  Right, that's all the rain that we had the whole time I was out there, that's right.

Bob:                So you're in salt water, you had a few tablespoons of fresh water in a four-and-a-half day period – any food?

Ed:                  Well, let's come to the next day.  The third day, when there were 17 of us, and we had literally had a prayer meeting.  I mean, nearly everybody prayed.

Bob:                You'd started with 80, and now you're down to 17.

Ed:                  Right.  

Dennis:          The sharks had picked off that many?

Ed:                  That's right – well, sharks and – you mentioned somebody giving up – you know, I saw any number of boys that maybe at one minute you'd think, "Well, they're still alive," and just a little bit later you'd see that they just all of a sudden – seemingly, they just allowed their head to drop into the water, and they didn't have the energy to raise up, and they didn't care.  I recall that third day that we had had a prayer meeting, and everyone nearly was praying, and some would ask that you would pray for them, you know, they had – some had some children back home that they had never seen, and so on, and they were desperate to make it.  And, you know, "If you make it, and I don't make it, will you go by and...

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Out of the Depths
Day 4 of 4

Guest:                            Ed Harrell

From the Series:         Ducks on the Pond: Rescued at Last

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Bob:                Sixty years ago this week, Ed Harrell and a number of other sailors were pulled from the Pacific.  They had survived four-and-a-half days afloat after the sinking of the USS Indianapolis.  It's four days that, as you might imagine, Ed Harrell has never been able to forget.

Ed:                  I have not had nightmares.  I've had many times that I've awakened and have a vivid scene of the happenings, and yet I think my counteraction to that is "Thank you, Lord, for sparing my life and for bringing me through all of this."

Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, August 4th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll hear how God spared Ed Harrell's life today, and we'll hear a remarkable story about a rescue in the middle of the Pacific.

                        And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us.  You know, Hollywood has told some tales of castaways left on a desert island, folks surviving in the middle of nowhere, and I've seen some of those movies, and you watch them, and they're interesting.  They have never come close to telling the story that we've heard this week.

Dennis:          No, I agree, Bob.  Ed Harrell has been with us all this week and has told a story, a compelling story of how God enabled him to survive an ordeal at sea after being a crew member on the USS Indianapolis, which was sunk on the night of July 30, 1945, by a Japanese submarine, and, Ed, I want to thank you again for your service as a veteran, but also for writing this book and for taking us there and giving us a greater appreciation not just for veterans and what they've done to protect our freedom as Americans but also for taking us there and showing us what tough-minded faith in Almighty God looks like.  Because time and time again you've taken us to vivid scenes where you've been at a fork in the road where you've had to trust God, and you'd been at sea for four days in a life jacket.  You'd only had a few tablespoons of water.  You had some rotten potatoes that had come after you'd prayed for some food; been separated from your buddies, and on the fourth day you are virtually alone.

Ed:                  No question.  Even with my buddy at the time and, in fact, there were three of us at the tail end there that fourth day and the one then dropped his head in the water, and he's gone, and then it's just McKissock and myself.  And my mind, by now, is beginning to fail me somewhat in that – McKissock, I know, would say to me, "Hey, Marine, you ever been to the Philippines?"  And, "No, I've never been there."  Well, he had, and he promised to kind of take me under his wing when we got there. 

                        And yet I knew him.  I knew who he was.  I'd served under him, and he was a peach of a guy, and yet, to me, he was Uncle Edwin, and I called him Uncle Edwin.  I had an uncle two years older than me.  I guess I was thinking of the good times in my mind with someone back home, and yet McKissock was Uncle Edwin to me.

                        And then it was sometime then that afternoon, you know, we had seen the planes, heard them at 30,000 feet, and I say to McKissock, "I hear a plane."  And he said, "I hear one, too," and if you can imagine somewhat that you hear a plane, and you know that it's somewhere coming closer, and yet you don't know which direction it is.  And we began to look all around and, finally, we could detect that it's coming from that direction.

Dennis:          Was it coming toward you?

Ed:                  It was coming toward us, and it was flying about 8,000 feet and, well, what do you do?  I tell you what you do.  You scream, you splash water, you make all kinds of contortions there in the water, hoping and praying that he can see you.  But here he is flying over us, and had he come any further, he would have gone over us, but when he got, like a quarter of a mile or so out here, flying at 8,000 feet, he headed it straight down toward us as if he knew we were there.  But he didn't know we were there – impossible for him to see us.  If we'd had on deer-hunter orange, and he knew we were there, he could not have seen us.

                        In fact, the pilot that later picked us up, he said the possibility of him seeing you would be the equivalent of taking the cross-section of a human hair and looking at the end of that human hair at 20 feet.  He said impossible for him to see us.

Dennis:          So why did he go into the dive?

Ed:                  Why did he go into the dive – that's the miracle of the angel coming for us, and that is the end of the fourth day.  Well, I've talked to Lieutenant Guinn [ph] at different times, and …

Bob:                He was the pilot?

Ed:                  He was the pilot, and he was flying out of Pulau, and he was flying a land-based plane, something like a B-20, a twin-engine plane, and as he was flying, he had left out that morning, and he had a problem with his antenna that kind of trails at the back of that aircraft.  And the stabilizer on that antenna had come off, and they had put something on, and he went out and tried it, and it didn't work.  They came back in, and then they put something on, and here they go again.

                        So as he is flying over us, and here, as I mentioned, here he's coming just at a point that he could nearly dive right down to us, at that point he had gone back to the bomb bay door, and he'd opened...

A Promise Kept (Part 1) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 2) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 3) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 4) - Robertson McQuilkin

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

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A Promise Kept

Day 1 of 4

Guest:                        Robertson McQuilkin

From the series:       My Decision, Part 1 

Bob: Robertson McQuilkin clearly remembers the first time he realized something was wrong with his wife, Muriel.

Robertson: We were driving with these friends, and Muriel started to tell a story.  She liked to tell stories and laugh at her own stories.  She had a marvelous, outrageous life – infectious.  So she started this story, which she had just told five minutes earlier.  This is a pretty, you know, four- or five-minute story.  And I said, "Honey, you just told us that.  This is a rerun."  And she just laughed and went right on.  And I thought, "Hey, that's funny.  That never happened before."  But then it began to happen with ever-greater frequency and, of course, we hadn't even heard the name Alzheimer's.

[musical transition] 

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, August 11th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Today we hear the first part of a powerful love story.  Stay tuned.

[musical transition] 

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Monday edition.  I know one of the questions you get asked frequently – I get asked the same question – is when you think back over now almost 16 years of doing FamilyLife Today what are some of your favorite radio interviews?  And I think what our listeners are going to get a chance to hear this week has to be up in the top tier of programs we've ever had the privilege of doing.

Dennis: And I thought you were going to say, Bob, one of the Top 10.

Bob:  Well, it's certainly one of the Top 10, maybe even higher than that, don't you think?

Dennis: No doubt about that.  Robertson McQuilkin is a rare man.  He is a world-renowned biblical theologian who has served internationally as a missionary.  He was, for a number of years, president of Columbia International University; has spoken worldwide; written a number of books.  But the real story our listeners are about to hear is Robertson's love for his wife, Muriel, who – well, more than 10 years from the time of this interview had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, and he was caring for her and, in fact, had resigned from his position as president of the seminary and college, and he went home to take care of her.  And it's just a great love story.

Bob:  It is a powerful story and, again, this interview goes back now almost nine years, but it's one of those interviews that we pull out and listen to ourselves over and over again, and we wanted our listeners to hear it as well.  Here is part 1 of our conversation with Dr. Robertson McQuilkin.

Dennis: Robertson, you and your wife, Muriel, met and dated during the year I was born – 1948.  That kind of dates me here a little bit.

Robertson: It dates me.

Dennis: Tell us about the love story originally.  How did you meet Muriel and how did you propose to her?

Robertson: Well, we were both students at what was then Columbia Bible College.  Now it's Columbia International University.  And I thought she was the cutest thing.  Somebody asked me on a television show whether it was love at first sight, and I said, "No."  I liked her at first sight, but I was only 17 years old – 16 when we first met.  But in our chapel, which was required, she sat in front of me, and when I watched her lovely, artistic fingers going through the hair, lovely brown hair, I just wanted to go out and see what she was like, and I discovered she was delightful – just smart and gifted and just a great lover of people and more fun than you can imagine.

Bob: Now, did you just tap her on the shoulder in chapel and say, "Would you go out for a Coke with me on Friday night?

Robertson: Well, I talked to her afterwards.  We were in conversation before, but, I mean, that really got me going.

Dennis: So you proposed – how'd you do that?

Robertson: It happened several times.

Dennis: It took you a while to win Muriel's love, huh?

Robertson: I think she was faking it, actually.  But, at any rate, yes.  The first time was in the lobby of the school, and she had this – she wouldn't hold hands or kiss or anything, and I said, "Let me hold your hand, I want to tell you something."  And she said, "Well, tell me what you're going to tell me."  But she let me hold her hand, and I told her I loved her, and that was the first time.

Dennis: Yeah, and you told her you wanted her to be your wife?

Robertson: I didn't say that much, but she got the drift.  But we decided afterwards, since we were young – and I guess a lot of people, after they propose, then they have misgivings.  So we decided to be sure it was God's will that we put it on hold for six months, and I went to seminary, and she went to teach in a school.  So we didn't have any contact for six months.  And they say that distance will blow out a little flame and fan a big one.  

So at the end of that time – I went to Bluefield, West Virginia to see her, and it was on Valentine's Day 1947 – the day before Valentine's Day, and that's when I had my ring and asked her to marry me, and she said, "Well, I've got to pray about it."  She knew all along what she was going to do.  Through the years I'd accuse her, I'd say, "You just did that so we could get engaged on Valentine's Day."

[laughter] 

Bob: Well, you had to be a little nervous, driving up to Bluefield, West Virginia.  You haven't seen her in six months, and you're carrying the ring, and did you wonder whether that little flame had been blown out or whether the big flame was still fanned?

Robertson: Well, I don't know, I was pretty confident, I guess.

A Promise Kept (Part 1) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 2) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 3) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 4) - Robertson McQuilkin

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete.

A Promise Kept

Day 2 of 4

Guest:                        Robertson McQuilkin

From the series:       My Decision, Part 2

________________________________________________________________

Bob: When Muriel McQuilkin was first diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, it meant a dramatic re-ordering of priorities for the McQuilkins.  Eventually, her husband, Robertson, stepped down from his role as the president of Columbia Bible College and Seminary.

Robertson:  A student asked me one time after I had resigned, a new student, came over and visited me.  He said, "Do you miss being president?"  And I said, "Well, you know, I never thought about it but, no, I don't.  I like my assignment.  I've learned to cook and keep house and garden, and I take care of Muriel.  I love it."

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, August 12th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Robertson McQuilkin's life changed when his wife, Muriel, was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, but his priorities didn't.  Stay tuned.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition.  I remember the first time I read the story of Robertson and Muriel McQuilkin, it was in an article, I think, in "Christianity Today," and I remember thinking, "That's powerful.  That's a great demonstration of commitment and love."  You remember reading the same article, don't you?

Dennis: I do, I do.  I wept as I read it.  I mean, it's just a great story of a man's covenant commitment to his wife and, Bob, if there has ever been a day when there needed to be stories like this told on radio, it's today, because we have diminished marriage in terms of its covenant and its commitment and what love means to such a degree – well, divorce has replaced it all, and I think, as a result, as a nation, we suffer from a profound mistrust of one another because we can't trust each other to keep the most sacred promise two people ever make to one another.

Bob: This week we're giving our listeners an opportunity to hear an interview that we recorded, actually, a number of years ago – almost nine years ago now – with Dr. Robertson McQuilkin.  This is one of our all-time favorites, it's a classic, because it is such a profound love story.

Dennis: It really is.  Robertson McQuilkin is an international speaker.  He's written a number of books, he served as an international church planning missionary for more than 12 years in Japan and was president of Columbia International University for 22 years before he resigned in 1990, and you know that's the story, Bob.  He resigned because he wanted to go home and take care of his wife of then more than 40 years, Muriel, who was suffering from Alzheimer's disease.

Bob: And after we read the article, we contacted Columbia and asked them if there was any audio recording of his resignation speech, and we're going to play an excerpt from that, and then we'll pick up with part 2 of a conversation we had nine years ago with Dr. Robertson McQuilkin.

Dennis: And as you listen to this recording, this is less than two minutes long, but I want you to listen to the resolute commitment of a man to his wife.  This is some of the most profound audio you'll ever hear.

Robertson:  [from audiotape.]  I haven't, in my life, experienced easy decision-making on major decisions, but one of the simplest and clearest decisions I've had to make is this one because circumstances dictated it.

Muriel now in the last couple of month seems to be almost happy when with me, and almost never happy when not with me.  In fact, she seems to feel trapped, becomes very fearful, sometimes almost terror, and when she can't get to me there can be anger, she's in distress.

But when I'm with her, she's happy and contented.  And so I must be with her at all times, and, you see, it's not only that I promised in sickness and in health, 'til death do us part, and I'm a man of my word.  But as I have said – I don't know with this group – but I have publicly it's the only fair thing.  She sacrificed for me for 40 years to make my life possible.  So – if I cared for her for 40 years, I'd still be in debt.  

However, there's much more.  It's not that I have to, it's that I get to.  I love her very dearly, and you can tell it's not easy to talk about.  She is a delight.  It's a great honor to care for such a wonderful person.

Bob: That powerful, moving announcement has as much power today as it did when it was originally made.  And, Dennis, I'm sitting here watching the man who made it, and it's moving for him to hear his own words 10 years later.

Dennis: That's right.  Robertson McQuilkin joins us on the broadcast, and, Robertson, I've got to tell you, as I listen to your words, maybe it's because I'm meeting you face-to-face, but every time I hear those words, I get emotional because this is where life makes up its mind at home.  It's a man keeping his word with his wife, and those were words, back in 1990, but we now have a decade that has followed where you have put shoe leather to those words, as you did resign, and as you did step away from being the president of a seminary and college that you loved; that you profoundly served in and for a number of years and had a great ministry.  You had a speaking ministry around the country.  You had a writing ministry, and you gave that up to go care for your wife, and as one who is a younger man aspiring to be a covenant keeper, and on behalf of many of the male listeners, and, for that matter, Bob, many of the female listeners, too, I'd like to say thank you – thank you for doing what you did.  You did the right thing.

Robertson: Well, if God can use it, then I praise Him.  It seems very unexceptional to me – just the natural thing to do.  But thank you.

Bob: As you listen back, and I know you haven't heard that resignation announcement.  It's not something that you play on your car stereo from time to time – it had to bring back that memory of being in front of the students, of making what you described there as an easy decision, and yet for a man to wal...

A Promise Kept (Part 1) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 2) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 3) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 4) - Robertson McQuilkin

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

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A Promise Kept

Day 3 of 4

Guest:                        Robertson McQuilkin

From the series:       What God Has Done

______________________________________________________________________

Bob: In the late 1980s, Robertson McQuilkin's wife Muriel was first diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease.  Over time, her condition became worse and worse.  Here is Dr. McQuilkin.

Robertson: It's like I was traveling away from her in the olden days, and I would recount our times together, our love times, our fun times, our crisis times.  I'd rehearse those, and it was just delightful.  It was like I was there.  I was living it over again.  And so now I'm on a little longer journey.  

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, August 13th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll hear about a long journey and about a promise kept on today's program.  

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.  Often, when I have theh opportunity to speak at one of our FamilyLife Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences, which I'm going to be doing in Philadelphia, by the way, coming up in November.  I'm looking forward to going in early for a cheesesteak and then spending a weekend at the conference in Philadelphia.

Dennis: We'll have more than 60 of these events throughout the fall.  And I just want to say, Bob, and excuse me for interrupting here, but …

Bob: That's all right.  I'll just think about the cheesesteak, you go ahead.

Dennis: I know, I know, you're all over the cheesesteak and trying to find a Cheesecake Factory to go visit.  Number 70 – or which one is it now?

Bob: It will be close to that by the time we get there, I think.

Dennis:  Number 70 – think about that, folks.  Anyway, this is serious.  We've got to get – we've got to have intervention for Bob, I think.

But, you know, I run into listeners all the time who have been listening to FamilyLife Today, some for a few months, some for several years who still have not been to a Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference or those who went a number of years ago and whose lives have dramatically changed because of just the water that's under the bridge.  And it's time, folks, it's time to go back, it's time to get a wheel alignment and to go take a weekend, a Friday night, all day Saturday, half-day Sunday, to sit and soak and have some fun, build some romance, build your relationship.  You're not going to be asked to do anything publicly.  You're just going to have a blast together as a couple.  

I just want to ask you a question – when it the last time you really did something great for your marriage?  And if that means going to Philadelphia to hear Bob, then join him at the Cheesecake Factory and get over there, but get to one of our 60 Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences this fall and take advantage of what I believe is the finest biblical training in the world on marriage and family.

Bob: You feel pretty strongly about this, don't you?

Dennis: I do.  I've given my adult life to strengthen marriages and families, and I don't know of a better weekend for couples to spend.  It's going to enrich their marriage with the right thing.

Bob: Well, what I was starting to say was that whenever I get the chance to speak at one of these Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences, I tell folks about Dr. Robertson McQuilkin and share with them his example of sacrificial, unconditional, 'til death do us part love that he demonstrated for his wife, Muriel. 

Dennis: One of the things you've said that has kept you going are all the memories – memories of her wit and kind of how she would flash back at you.  And there is one story I want you to share with our listeners where she rebuked you.  That's just a classic story that I think points out the differences between men and women in a beautiful way.

Robertson: I think you're referring to the time we were – in the evening in bed discussing some earth-shaking theme, which I do not remember.  And I was just demolishing her arguments with superb logic.  

Dennis: Are you saying you were arguing with her?

Robertson: Discussing.  If I ever do seem to be prevailing in a situation like that, then I start feeling bad about it.  But she didn't wait for any sympathy or pity.  She just reared up on one elbow and flashed those gray-green eyes at me, and she said, "Well, let me tell you something.  Logic's not everything, and feeling's not nothing."

Dennis: When I read that story, I thought, "That is a great statement," especially for a man to hear.  

Bob: You know, those stories, and Dennis talked about how there is comfort in those memories, but I would think, mixed in with the comfort of those memories, would be an ongoing sense of loss.  I mean, that's how she was.  But that's not how she's been over the last seven years.

Robertson: No.  It's like I was traveling away from her in the olden days, and I would recount our times together, our love times, our fun times, our crisis times.  I'd rehearse those, and it was just delightful.  It was like I was there.  I was living it over again.  And so now I'm on a little longer journey, or she's on a journey, and, no, it's pure pleasure to recount those.

Now, if I was wire up, if I was programmed in my head so that I was thinking about, "Oh, but I don't have this anymore," "Oh, but what if it hadn't been this way," then, sure, I could get bent out of shape.  And I don't take any credit for it.  I give the Lord credit for anything good that I ever think or do, but I don't feel any immediate intervention on God's part.  It's just that's not the way I am.  I know you'd like to have me feel an agony and a pain and a wrestling and a battle, because that would help a lot of people, and I wish I could, but, frankly, that's not been my exp...

A Promise Kept (Part 1) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 2) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 3) - Robertson McQuilkin
A Promise Kept (Part 4) - Robertson McQuilkin

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  

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 A Promise Kept

Day 4 of 4

Guest:                        Robertson McQuilkin

From the series:       Our Future

Bob: What's the right response, the biblical response, when someone you love has been diagnosed with  Alzheimer's disease?  Do you take care of that person?  Do you hire someone else to be the caregiver?  For Dr. Robertson McQuilkin the decision was simple.  He chose to take care of his wife Muriel.  He realized it was his responsibility, not a responsibility that his children should bear.

Robertson: I've told Marty, who is my oldest daughter and who stays with Muriel when I have to leave town, I said, "Marty, now I do not want you to rearrange your life to care for your mother if I die before she does.  I've got it fixed so you can put her in a care institution."  She said, "I'm not going to do it.  God put me here to take care of her."  And I said, "Marty, I really want all of the children to go on with their life, and Mom won't know anything, so just" – she said, "Well, Dad, when you're dead you won't have any say, will you?"

[laughter]

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, August 14th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll talk today with Dr. Robertson McQuilkin about a Christian's responsibility in providing long-term care for a loved one.  Stay tuned.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today.  Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.  As we have been reflecting this week on an interview that we actually recorded nine years ago, Dennis, with Dr. Robertson McQuilkin, the former president of the Columbia International University and Seminary, who stepped down in 1990 to care for his wife, Muriel, after she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease.  I've been thinking about the alcove down the hall from the studio where we have pictures of Dr. McQuilkin, and where we have a lighthouse that stands there to commemorate his sacrificial love for his wife, and we've had the opportunity over the years to honor a number of people who have demonstrated that same kind of sacrificial love and give them an award that bears his name.

Dennis: Right, and that lighthouse, Bob, that's down in the hall from here, stands on a 50-pound chunk of polished granite, and we picked out that granite because of its hardness, toughness, weight, and just the sheer mass that it represents, because the story we've been listening to all week here is a story of a light being set on a hill.  It's the love of Christ being demonstrated between a husband and his wife when his wife couldn't care for him, couldn't speak with him, couldn't connect with him emotionally and spiritually.

And, you know, we have a lot of privileges here on FamilyLife Today, and when we get a chance to tell a story that exalts Jesus Christ; that talks practically about a tough situation where a husband fulfills his promise and his pledge to care for his wife, Bob, it just doesn't get any better than that, and that's why we created that award for Dr. McQuilkin and, as you mentioned, we've had a chance to give it to a half a dozen other people and honor them for toughness in their commitment and really keeping their covenant.  That's what marriage is all about.

Bob: We're going to hear part 4 right now of the interview that we recorded back in 1999 with Dr. Robertson McQuilkin and, again, at that time his wife Muriel was still alive.  She went home to be with the Lord in 2003.  It was a real privilege to be able to interact with him about his selfless sacrificial love for her.

Bob: We've talked about this all week.  We've talked about your decision to step down, to come home to be the full-time caretaker for your wife.  We have folks listening to the broadcast who have made different decisions about care for a loved one, whether it's a husband, or a wife, an aging mother or father.  They have chosen to bring in professional help or to provide for full-time care in a nursing facility.  Do you think that's wrong for somebody to make that choice?

Robertson: Of course not.  The touchstone for me is what is best for her.  When there comes a time, either because of my health or hers, that someone else can care for her better than I, then painful as it will be to be separated – because, you know, her loving presence is there all day every day.  I would miss that.  But that's the touchstone.  What would love do in this case?  For example, if the roles were reversed, Muriel couldn't lift me.  She couldn't put me in a wheelchair.  She'd hang on as long as she could, but roles are different.  It came at a time in life when I could do it.  So, no.  In fact, this is just a story.  I'm not pushing an agenda, I'm not setting an example.  I mean, you can kind of pick and choose and try to make something of it, but I'm just telling a story, and that's the way of joy for us.

Dennis: Yes, I think that's healthy for you to say – you don't have an agenda here – because, Bob, I think we have a generation of men and women who are part of the baby boom generation who are watching their parents age, and they do wonder – what is God's will here?  How can I best care for my mother, my father and, in fact, I'm asking that question myself.  My mom is 87 years of age, still able to live in her home, primarily because my brother lives near her.  I think that's a good standard you've given us – the standard of what is best for the object of the love.

Robertson: Well, Dennis, you bring in the parental thing.  I've told Marty, who is my eldest daughter and who stays with Muriel when I have to leave town.  I said, "Marty, now I do not want you to rearrange your life to care for your mother if I die before she does.  I've got it fixed so you can put her in a care institution."  She said, "I'm not going to do it.  God put me here to take care of her."  And I said, "Marty, I really want all of the children to go on with their life, and Mom won't know anything, so just" – she said, "Well, Dad, when you're dead you won't have any say, will you?"

[laughter]

Bob: She is a chip off the old block, isn't she?  The oak did not fall far from the tree in that case.

Storm Stories: Charlie's Victory (Part 1) - Charlie & Lucy Wedemeyer
Storm Stories: Charlie's Victory (Part 2) - Charlie & Lucy Wedemeyer

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript

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Storm Stories:  Charlie's Victory

Day 1 of 2

Guest:                        Lucy and Charlie Wedemeyer

From the series:       Storm Stories:  Charlie's Victory Part 1

Bob: Lucy Wedemeyer was a young wife, a young mom with two small children.  She had married her high school sweetheart, the star of the football team.  Things were going perfect for Lucy until one day her husband came home from the doctor.

Lucy: I mean, it was very obvious to me something was really wrong, and when he said that the doctor told him he had this terminal disease, I couldn't say anything.  I couldn't even respond.  We just stood there kind of clinging to each other.

[musical transition] 

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, August 7th.   Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  How does a marriage survive and stand strong in the midst of storms?  Stay tuned.

[musical transition] 

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.  When we began this week, when you told our listeners that the story they were going to hear was one of the top five all-time FamilyLife Today stories, and I think you're right.  I think what we've heard already this week has been powerful and profound.  But we thought we ought to revisit another one of those top-five moments before the week is over.  And so our listeners are going to get to hear another remarkable couple on today's program.

Dennis: A great story of unsurpassing love between a football star and his adoring wife, Charlie and Lucy Wedemeyer tell a story that I think our listeners will never forget.  Charlie was a standout high school football star in Hawaii.  He ended up getting a scholarship to Michigan State University, where he had never seen a snowflake before being from Hawaii, and there he met Lucy.  They were married and not long after that he had become head coach of Los Gatos High School in Northern California in the Bay Area, and it was during that time he was diagnosed with a terminal illness, at least he was told by his doctor that he had months to live.

Bob: And when we sat down and talked to them, it had been years since he had received that diagnosis, and Charlie was in a wheelchair, the only parts of his body that he could move were his lips and his eyes, and that's how he communicated with his wife, Lucy.  In fact, our listeners may be able to hear the ventilator that he's on.  They won't hear Charlie's voice, but Lucy will be able to share some of his thoughts and some of his words as she reads his lips and as she walks us through this incredible story.

Lucy: Charlie was diagnosed with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, which is commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease.  The doctors told him at the time of the diagnosis he had maybe a year to live, and Charlie's adding here, "The doctors didn't realize that Dr. Jesus had other plans for me."

Dennis: Well, I want to take you all back to how you met because you met in Hawaii, isn't that correct, where you grew up?

Lucy: Charlie and I met in high school at Punahau Academy on the beautiful island of Oahu under just a gorgeous blue sky and waving palm trees.  I mean, just the most romantic place.  He had just finished football practice, and I was standing in line at the bookstore – uh-oh, "No, no, no.  I was standing in line when I saw this gorgeous blond" – oh I like this – "walking up the steps, and I immediately fell in love."  Is that why you ran over to get in line?  I see.

[laughter] 

Dennis: Well, you, at that time, were a cheerleader, and he was a star football player – the player of the decade in high school?

Lucy: Yes, he was, he was, in the '60s, yes, yes.

Dennis: Well, it was in 1977, after you had been married for 11 years.  You'd had a daughter and a son that you were at the chalkboard, and you were having difficulty holding onto a piece of chalk, and at first it didn't seem that it was out of the ordinary that you were having to squeeze the chalk extra hard, but in the weeks that followed instead of two or three fingers you found yourselves really gripping the chalk, and some bad news came your way.  Lucy, can you bring us into those first conversations around that?

Lucy: Charlie is saying, "At first I thought it was old football injuries, since I'd had so many."  He played not only high school and college but semi-pro there with the Lansing All-Stars for several years.  So it wasn't uncommon to think that maybe it was arthritis setting in or – he'd had a multitude of injuries all his career, and it was disconcerting, but Charlie just kind of said, "Oh, well, it's probably, you know, just those old injuries," and we really didn't concern ourselves with it that much at that point in time.  And Charlie's saying, "Until it became more difficult for me to button my shirts, to shave, and tie my shoes." 

And, actually, what happened was the team doctor noticed some problems and started to ask Charlie and said, "Why don't we go up and have some tests done," and he took us up to Stanford University and ran us through some tests.  He said they were basically inconclusive, and we really didn't think a lot about it.  It's kind of funny, we, I think, preferred to bury our head in the sand at the time and just assume that it was part of his – part of the old injuries.

Bob: Charlie, did you bring Lucy in?  Did you let her know you were having trouble with the chalk and buttoning your shirt?

Lucy: "Oh, yes, in fact, she always had to correct all his math papers for his math students" and do all those things – the fine dexterity things.  But, again, we weren't – I don't think we were extremely alarmed, and our family has always been very close.  Any of Charlie's football games or basketball games when he was coaching basketball or playing softball.  We'd all be together.  The children were always there, a part of the scene.

Dennis: Well, that Christmas season, the team doctor, who was a good friend of yours, paid your way back to the islands for all four of you to go back and see your family.  You were suspicious that he knew something that he wasn't sharing with you.

Storm Stories: Charlie's Victory (Part 1) - Charlie & Lucy Wedemeyer
Storm Stories: Charlie's Victory (Part 2) - Charlie & Lucy Wedemeyer

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript

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Storm Stories:  Charlie's Victory

Day 2 of 2

Guest:                        Lucy and Charlie Wedemeyer

From the series:       Storm Stories:  Charlie's Victory Part 2

Bob: What causes someone to persevere in a marriage relationship in spite of incredible hardship?  Here is Lucy Wedemeyer.

Lucy: I think it goes back to the marriage vows, "for better, for worse."  I don't think anyone ever dreams that the "for worse" part will ever be a part of your life.  As he began to deteriorate and was struggling with just staying alive, how can you abandon someone when you made that commitment?  

Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, August 8th.   Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  We will get a close-up look today at what genuine love, commitment, and self-sacrifice really look like in a marriage.  Stay tuned.

And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.  I'm not sure exactly how to describe this week.  It's kind of like true heroes week, you know, great love stories week.  We started off hearing about John and Donna Bishop and the remarkable story of how their marriage has gone through the incredible trial of him having lost his memory completely, and they had to start their marriage and their family over again from scratch.

Dennis: Yes, and Donna was really the key to that because she loved him in the midst of his illness, and the story we're going to hear on today's broadcast is a continuation of another love story, Charlie and Lucy Wedemeyer, where she also loved and is still loving her man in the midst of great suffering and great trial.

Bob: Yes, Charlie and Lucy were married in 1966, and 11 years later, Charlie was working as a football coach in Los Gatos, California.  They had two children and, all of a sudden, Charlie noticed that there were things he used to be able to do that he couldn't do any longer – things like buttoning his buttons.  And so they went to the doctor, and the doctor said, "You may have a year to live, maybe a year and a half," and as it turns out, Charlie has beaten those odds.

Dennis: Slightly – 31 years he's been alive.

Bob: Yes.  When we interviewed him, this was more than a decade ago, he had already survived for a decade and half.  He is in a wheelchair, he's on a respirator full time, and all he is able to move are his lips and his eyes, and that's how he and Lucy communicate.  She reads his lips and, as our listeners will hear, she interprets what he is saying.  And as we've already said this week, this goes down as one of the top stories we've heard on FamilyLife Today in the years that we've been doing this program.  And here is part 2 of our conversation with Charlie and Lucy Wedemeyer.

Dennis: Bob, when Charlie and Lucy speak to audiences, they warn them.  In fact, in their book, "Charlie's Victory," they wrote down the warning they give people when they speak to them in large audiences.  They say "Sometimes in our lives, we'll all be faced with some circumstance that will seem too difficult to cope with.  When that time comes, we have to make the choice, because God gives each one of us the power of choice.  We can choose to be miserable, feel sorry for ourselves, throw our own private pity party and cause everyone around us to be miserable, too.  Or we can choose to face our trials with God's help knowing that we'll come out on the other side as stronger people for the experience.  We all have that choice."

And, you know, you all have really come out on that other side, although, Lucy, as I think back to the struggle that you've been through in facing Charlie's illness and caring for him – in fact, the nine years that you picked him up out of bed and without nursing help for all those years, Lucy, there had to be days when your strength, physical strength waned, and your emotional strength ebbed.  It had to seem like it was unbearable.

Lucy:  Well, it was, and I sort of made a pact with myself that I wouldn't cry in front of Charlie.  I didn't want to let down, you know, I always wanted to be up.  I'm always kind of an up person, and one particular afternoon, Cully (ph) had helped me get Charlie in a borrowed van to go to the doctor.  It was the first time we were putting Charlie in the wheelchair and trying to transfer him.  And as we got to the place, and we were attempting to put him into the wheelchair, we couldn’t.  It was a struggle.  It was so difficult that I began to have this lump welling up in my throat, and I thought, "No, no, I am not going to cry."  And so I said to him and to Cully, "Excuse me, I'll be right back," and they kind of looked at me with these faces like "Where are you going?  We have an appointment."  

And I jumped out of the van, and it was a busy parking lot, and I went to the back of the van, and I sort of knelt down behind it, and I cried out to God, I said, "I cannot do this anymore.  I cannot."  It was really miraculous because right then and there, without truly understanding what it was to have a personal relationship with Jesus, the Lord absolutely enveloped me with this wonderful blanket of warmth, of comfort, of this peace that it was going to be okay.  It was like this little void in me, in the center of me, was filled.  And I got up, wiped my eyes and marched back to the van and opened the door, and Cully looked at me, he says, "Mom, are you okay?"  And I said, "Yes, I am fine."

And really from that day forward the Lord gave me a new resolve that allowed me to go through everything and be calm.  It was as if God had said, "This is your mission," you know, "to help Charlie, to keep him going, and I have bigger plans."  Little did we know.  And Charlie's saying, "I thank God every day for Lucy because He, God knew beforehand, that Lucy would be the one that would stand by my side throughout our difficult circumstances, and I must say that whenever someone is diagnosed with a terminal disease, 72 percent of their marriages fall apart."

Dennis: You know, Bob, as I prepared for the interview, I watched a PBS special about this couple and this, of course, was something that was created back in the mid-1980s, and I sat there with my three daughters and wife and watched Lucy's commitment to Charlie, and Charlie's commitment to his family and to life, I just sat there with emotion welling up in me at the enormous commitment that ...