Dentrepreneur Podcast

In this insightful podcast episode, we delve into the topic of valuations and end goals in dentistry. What factors should dentists consider when assessing the value of their practice, and how can they align their end goals with their financial aspirations?

In this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D. Todd Russell interviews John McNabb, CEO of CanaDent Corporation. John, with a proven track record in mergers and acquisitions exceeding two billion dollars across diverse industries, engages in a discussion with Todd about the importance of humility and recognizing limitations for future success. With extensive experience in management and executive roles within renowned Canadian and international banks, specializing in complex corporate financings and risk management, he has since served as a financial and operational business advisor. Most recently, he focused on dental management consulting, particularly in practice acquisitions. John's skill set encompasses strategic planning, risk management, marketing strategy, financing, exceptional negotiation skills, and effective leadership capabilities.

Furthermore, in this podcast episode, John, focusing on dentists, emphasizes the significance of setting aside ego and acknowledging the need for continuous learning and seeking mentorship. The host agrees with this perspective and expresses interest in inviting the guest back to the show. They also inquire about how listeners, particularly in Canada, can connect with the guest, especially those looking to merge or sell their dental practices. The episode underscores the value of humility and the willingness to learn from others in order to achieve success, while also shedding light on the importance of dentists broadening their perspective and acquiring business acumen for long-term financial success.

They will touch on such topics as:

• Leveraging relationships for business growth and the significance of humility and recognizing limitations for future success.
• The importance of dentists setting aside egos and embracing continuous learning, Toronto's growth and multiculturalism, and venture capital and private equity.
• The focus on clinical skills rather than business management in dental education, the importance of rising interest rates and valuations, and the rolling disaster series: “I would rather keep my cash safe and have it available to use when I need it, rather than taking a shot at something.”
• Lack of transparency in acquisitions and business acumen among dentists and the challenges of buying and selling practices: "On day one of being an owner, you should start thinking about the last day of being an owner."
• Standardizing the acquisition process, DSOs and dental practice value, how staff turnover affects practice cohesion: "Unfortunately we human beings learn fastest and most effectively from pain rather than pleasure."
• Broadening perspectives beyond clinical aspects for a successful dental practice, the importance of building a larger practice for long-term financial success, prioritizing skill development and revenue generation strategies.

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Connect with John McNabb:

• Phone: Office: 416-551-5660 / Cell: 647-991-7219
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-mcnabb/
• Website: http://www.canadent.ca/
• Email: [email protected]

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/ 
• YouTube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote: 

"The smartest person is the person who knows what they don't know because it's that person who can go out and find sources of information to mentor them and to help them learn. The person who is most dangerous to themselves in terms of future success is the person who thinks they know it all." - John McNabb

You're a young entrepreneur wondering: how do I navigate the complexities of running a business? What are the most important aspects of valuing a dental practice's business, and how important is a well-thought-out plan?

In this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D. Todd Russell interviews Len Garza, the founder of GARZA, a highly reputable law firm specializing in safeguarding the personal and business assets of business owners and individuals. Len's expertise has earned him recognition in esteemed media outlets such as Forbes, Entrepreneur, Law Insider, CBS News Radio, and Inc. Magazine. Additionally, he has been honored as a Super Lawyer by Thomson Reuters and holds the highest rating of AV-Preeminent by Martindale-Hubbell, acknowledging his exceptional legal skills and professional achievements. Len is a sought-after lecturer, frequently sharing his insights on family business and wealth planning, preservation, and asset protection. His passion lies in educating his community and guiding business owners and their families in their journey toward building and safeguarding generational wealth.

In this episode, Len emphasizes the importance of business owners thinking beyond day-to-day operations and having a well-thought-out plan for the future. They highlight that business owners often have so much on their minds, such as what's coming up in the next week, month, quarter, or even a few years down the line. However, the host emphasizes that it is crucial for business owners to force themselves to think beyond these immediate concerns and ask themselves what they want out of their business in the long run.

They will touch on such topics as:

• Guest Len Garza discusses his background, being humbled by the experience, and the concepts of entitlement and empowerment of being an expert.
• The significance of being in the weeds of dentistry and being in charge: "Dentists are the head of maintenance and the chief of security."
• When is the right time to consider an exit strategy, the value of a well-thought-out plan.
• The key components of valuing a dental practice's business, the importance of having systems in place, and the things to know before selling: "Planning is a system, not a mindset."
• The legal profession has done well in terms of bringing in associates, how this has kept young dentists out of debt, and how success breeds success.
• The significance of surrounding yourself with experienced experts and the benefit of drawing on the experience of others, as well as the first phase of due diligence and what it entails for both a seller and a buyer.
• Who inspired Len to build his empire, how his first business was a nightmare, and the importance of being prepared for the unexpected: "Don't count your chickens before they're hatched."

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Connect with Len:

• Website: https://lgarzalaw.com/

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/ 
• YouTube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote: 

"Everything is risky. Even going out on your own is risky. Staying in the position, maybe the job that you're at seems stable, but you don't really realize the risk that may be there. So it's like everything's risky. Pick your risk." - Len Garza

Are you ready to take your dental practice to new heights and leverage the power of cutting-edge technology? Curious to explore captivating firsthand experiences and invaluable insights from a distinguished dental industry entrepreneur?

In this episode of Dentrepreneur, Dr. D. Todd Russell interviews Russ Baker, an author, a dental industry veteran with 30 years of experience and currently serving as the Vice President of Equipment, Repair, and Supplies for Dental Whale. He grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, where boating on Lake Erie and being a die-hard Cleveland sports fan instilled a sense of wonder, resilience, and loyalty. Described as trustworthy, loyal, steadfast, driven, and funny, he believes that integrity and character are vital values. For Russ, success is living a life filled with love, laughter, and purpose, and he would advise future generations to slow down, appreciate life's moments, cherish loved ones, and find meaning and joy in everyday experiences.

Todd and Russ talk about the importance of procurement of supplies in the dental industry. They will discuss the key areas that dentists should pay attention to when building their practice and emphasize the importance of scaling a dental business, owning multiple offices, and generating passive income. They stressed the need for systems and a clear exit strategy when scaling a business, as it can lead to financial success and the ability to step back from practicing dentistry. Overall, technology and scaling are crucial factors in the dental industry that can lead to success and efficiency.

They will touch on such topics as:

• Learning the business side of dentistry, the cost of goods and services, and what you do at the dental fix. 
• Group purchasing organization, EBITDA, and net operating income, and how important consistency is over time, not just a month or a quarter.
• Russ' startup advice, how to plan an exit strategy, and the five-step process for business mastery and procurement: "The best systems are the ones that are copycat and repeated."
• The sweet spots for bringing on an associate, an emerging, and private equity investment, as well as how Covid-19 and staffing costs affect dental practices: "Dentists are highly resistant to macro-economics."
• What the ideal dental practice is for him, as well as the importance of education in dentistry and how technology helps reduce costs but can be used to spread fake news.
• Who influenced Russ the most, how he progressed from working part-time to full-time work, and how he scaled his business to have a passive income are all discussed.

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Connect with Russ:

• Email: [email protected]
• Website: https://www.dentalwhale.com/
• Phone: 704-776-2533

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/ 
• YouTube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote: 

"Embrace change, because things will change. And that's a good thing. Put your arms around it and figure out the economics of what that is going to be. Change your business model, and be open to new technology."- Russ Baker

You’re fresh out of Dental School, wondering, how do I become a successful practice owner? What does it take to have a hands-on approach to dental management, and what advice should you be looking for as a dental professional considering doing so?

In this episode of Dentrepreneur, Dr. D. Todd Russell interviews Naimish Patel, the co-founder, and CEO of Tru Family Dental, a dental support organization that helps 30 successful community dental practices provide lifetime quality care in private practice settings. Naimish established an exceptional management team and scalable operating infrastructure, as well as led a disciplined execution strategy that produced exceptional results for shareholders, team members, and patients. Naimish served on the board of directors of UMA Enterprises and Cumming Corporation as a Senior Advisor to Long Point Capital, a middle-market leveraged buyout firm. Naimish was previously the Managing Director of CITG Capital, a private equity firm he founded that focused on capital investment on behalf of an entrepreneurial family office.

Todd and Naimish also delve into Naimish's hands-on approach to management, which involves working on the front desk in his practices, and the importance of being present in business operations. Overall, this episode offers valuable insights into the dental and private equity industries from a successful and experienced entrepreneur.

They will touch on such topics as:

• Naimish’s background in dental roll-ups, his career in private equity, and how he was received in the early stages of his business.
• Aligning and surrounding yourself with the right people on board and creating the culture of the business is the best timeline for selling a practice.
• How people don’t realize how physically demanding dentistry is, and they also discussed dentists who enjoy the thrill of small business ownership and entrepreneurship.
• Networking with those who have done it before and thus looking for consultants with real-world experience is key to a successful start-up.
• How culture and core values are near and dear to Naimish’s heart, creating a great dental experience, and the ethos of having happy patients and happy team members.
• The practitioner's quality and the importance of doing good quality work, which includes staying on top of changes in your business and keeping everything in order.
• Personal questions were asked at the end, such as what is most important to Naimish, how he prepared for the transition, and how the Bhagavad Gita and Vince Lombardi inspired him.

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Connect with Naimish:

• LinkedIn: Naimish Patel
• Email: [email protected]

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/
• Youtube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote:

"You always have to continue to adapt and evolve to the environment that's changing. You don't need to be different for the sake of being different. It's fine to bend that curve, and do a small part to help more people get into the dental office and take care of their oral health so that they can live a better life on this planet.” - Naimish Patel

Are you a dentist looking to increase the value of your practice and attract new patients? Do you want to learn how to reduce stress while increasing revenue in your dental practice? 

In this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D. Todd Russell interviews Elliott Feldman, the President & Founder of Empower DDS. Empower DDS was born when Elliott’s passion for small business met his love of the dental market. Elliott’s dental career has included directly working with offices and running a team for one of the country’s largest dental suppliers.  After visiting hundreds of offices, he saw dentistry was in trouble.  There was a common theme in every dental office.  The reimbursements were falling as the production went up.  Feeling that more of an impact could be made, Elliott took the step to create the Empower platform. Elliott’s ultimate reward is watching doctors regain practice control from insurance, creating a future for independent dental offices. Elliot discusses the challenges that dentists face in growing their businesses, sharing his experience in the dental business world. He shares tips for dentists on building a solid online presence and increasing revenue by offering a membership plan. 

Todd and Elliott will also explore the benefits of in-house plans for dental practices and they also discuss the importance of marketing, building a solid online presence, and offering a membership plan. By offering a membership plan, patients are more likely to schedule regular check-ups and procedures, which can boost the practice's income. Moreover, in-house plans can reduce stress for the dentist and the patient by eliminating the need to deal with insurance companies. This can lead to a better patient experience and a more efficient practice. Overall, in-house plans can be a valuable tool for dental practices seeking to improve their financial performance and overall operations. 

They will touch on topics such as:

• The evolution of the dental industry, the advantages of employer-based insurance, and how to increase the value of a dental practice.
• The goal of raising revenue starts with identifying costs, coaching/consulting, and hiring another hygienist: “You always have to remember, it doesn't matter what you charge, what matters is what you receive."
• Fees for service type practices versus Medicaid-based practices, how restorative cash helps lower patient attrition, and creates a transparent plan for customers: “The biggest misconception in dentistry is that the cost is what keeps people away.”
• Corporate dentistry and its effect on the profession, consolidation in the dental industry, and why we need insurance: “Insurance is meant to build trust.”
• What type of insurance category a new owner should consider, the cost of dealing with insurance claims, and the lag in insurance collections at dental offices.
• Patient-facing vs. clinical-facing concepts, leveraging experts to educate patients, and empowering patients with in-house plans are all discussed.
• Personal questions for Elliot include who influenced him to be the man he is today, his thoughts on putting things in perspective and finding them during difficult times, and how to grow a podcast audience.

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Connect with Elliot:

• Website: https://empowerdds.com
• Phone: (844) 747-3337
• LinkedIn: @empowerdds
• Instagram: @empowerdds

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/
• Youtube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote:

"In the dental world, we can make some changes and make some progress. Because we're not up against tech giants, we can do things that are in the best interest of people. So you'll never hear me say too many bad things about the dental world because there's an opportunity for everyone.” - Elliot Feldman

Are you ready to dive into a thought-provoking conversation about mental health and its profound impact on organizations? Are you eager to unlock the secrets of effective leadership, motivation, systems, and culture? 

In this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D. Todd Russell is joined by Babe Kwasniak, a leadership coach and motivational speaker for Diligent Plans. He is a graduate of West Point, a decorated military veteran, and the Civilian Aide to the Secretary of the Army in the State of Ohio. He is also the head basketball coach at Cornerstone Christian Academy in Willoughby, Ohio, and is a passionate advocate and keynote speaker for veterans tackling challenges such as post-traumatic stress, transition difficulties, and suicidal ideations. He and his wife Dr. Laura Kwasniak have three sons and reside in Chesterland, Ohio.

Dr. Russell and Babe discuss the valuation of dental practices, determining when and how to exit, and the importance of having courage in making these decisions. While Babe's background is not in the dental space, he shares insights from his military experience that are applicable to business and life in general. Overall, the episode is an uplifting conversation between two friends with different backgrounds, highlighting the importance of relationships and personal values in achieving success.

They will touch on such topics as:

• Babe’s coaching background and his take on post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and other mental health concerns in the military: “59% of veterans who commit suicide never deployed in the United States Army.”
• The military challenge coins and what they mean, and the importance of culture and mentorship in the military and in dentistry. “Results are a direct reflection of your culture. Passion is a superpower, but it can burn a house down.”
• Culture and who dictates it, how protecting culture is more demanding than building it and what’s the best advice he was ever given.
• How everyone has a role in empowering leadership, and empathy is an important piece of leadership: “The best leaders don't produce followers, but more leaders”
• Humility and the difference between confidence and cockiness.
• The importance of relationships and personal values in achieving success: “Don't let other people define your success, especially when nobody knows your practice.”

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Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/
• Youtube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote:

"People who try to make a point rarely make a difference, but people whose purpose is to make a difference rarely need to make a point. There's a difference between confidence and cockiness."- Babe Kwasniak

Are you struggling to take your company to the next level? Looking for new ideas and processes to help you leverage and develop your company's organic content marketing strategy?

In this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D. Todd Russell interviews Erick De La Fuente, a business consultant who now runs his own consultancy business, primarily working with dental clients. Erick is the founder of EDLF Business Coaching & Consulting, a business focused on helping healthcare private practice owners unlock their full potential to create a successful, thriving, and stress-free business that runs on autopilot allowing practitioners to focus on patient care. In the last decade, he has worked for large consulting firms such as Deloitte and Embark, and he is an expert in marketing, sales, operations, systems, and team management. 

Erick will address the challenges of working with clients who are resistant to change and those who are open to new ideas. He also discusses the importance of adaptability in the consulting industry. The discussion then shifts to identifying foundational level items that must occur in the business in order to strike a balance between personal and professional goals.

They will touch on such topics as:

• Getting an exit plan, how important it is to have a coach on laying a good foundation for a successful business, and his idea on work-life balance and setting goals for clients.
• The importance of consistency in dental practices and responsiveness, and the difference between medicine and dentistry, as well as the handshake hug moment: “The handshake hug moment is the first five minutes with the patient.”
• The hands-on touch model vs the rubber stamp model, using the horoscope to identify trigger points for sales, and the importance of having a system.
• What has changed in the dental industry in terms of exit strategies, things to look out for before buying a practice and common themes that need to be improved on with small business owners.
• What success means to Erick, how he combats toxic employees, and the importance of operationalizing processes and tracking numbers: “Two of the biggest things to monitor in dental practice are valuations.”
• Client acquisition and creating an organic content marketing strategy and processes for a business, and leveraging the help around you.
• Eric’s thoughts to those who have never thought about starting a business, but should, his advice to the younger generation, and his biggest influences.

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Reach out to Erick de la Fuente:

Additional Resources:

• Book: How Clients Buy by Tom McMakin and Doug Fletcher

Socials:

• Website: https://erickdelafuente.focalpointcoaching.com 
• Facebook Group: Propel Your Private Practice

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/
• Youtube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote:

“On having a business coach, it's never easy to ask for help, but having the help when you need it is always good.”- Erick De La Fuente

What makes dental partnerships successful? Want to learn more about what main factors will allow your business to grow and expand profitably?

In this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D. Todd Russell is joined by Gabe Shahwan, Senior Managing Partner for MB2 Dental, a dental partnership company with over 500 practices nationwide. Dr. Gabe Shahwan is a general dentist with 16 years of experience acquiring and establishing dental practices as an MB2 Dental partner. He joined Dr. Steve Villanueva's practice after graduating from UTHealth Houston School of Dentistry in 2007, first as an advocate and then as a partner, opening the group's fifth practice. Through two recapitalization events, he has witnessed the company transition from 100% privately owned by dentists to a partnership with private equity. 

They discuss Gabe's background in dentistry, the elusive mesial buccal 2 of a dental root canal, and the fact that MB2 Dental is a true dental partnership company where dentists have equity. Gabe also talks about the challenges and opportunities of running a dental practice and the importance of building a strong team. Today, MB2 Dental has over 500 dentists across 38 states and has become the leader in partnering with dentists in their practices.

They will touch on such topics as:

• The journey of Dr. Shahwan's dental practice, the challenges he faced in becoming a part-owner, and the sidecar concept: "Dentists have an equity stake in the company."  
• The significance of long-term thinking and what it means to partner with an associate: "Partnering with an associate is like refinancing a house."
• The need and importance of having a succession plan in place for your practice, as well as why mentoring is more than coaching.
• What it’s like to work with a wildly successful team, who you can call on to help you build your business, and the importance of having a trusted advisor.
• Understanding the key categories of a profit and loss statement, and how important is systemization and having a playbook.
• The Laissez-faire vs hands-on approach, the model of BM2 Dental and how it works, and why it is different from other private equity firms.
• More personal questions for Dr. Shahwan, such as who his favorite Marvel character is, who his career influences are, and what his hiring preferences are.

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Reach out to Dr. Gabe Shahwan:

• Email: [email protected]

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/
• Youtube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote:

“Less is more. Owning pieces of practices could diversify the risks. Know your lane, know where your strengths are. Hire the right person for the right role.”- Dr. Gabe Shahwan

What are some things you wish you knew as you found success during your career as a dental hygienist? Have you ever had any difficulties establishing and growing your own dental practice?

In this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D Todd Russell interviews Aziza Abed, a former practicing hygienist and DSO expert. Aziza shares her experience of starting in the field of dentistry as a teenager and her journey toward advising dentists and buying and selling practices in the DSO space. The two discuss Abed's development in the industry and her experience working for Midwestern Dental, a large DSO in Michigan.

Throughout the conversation, Aziza shares valuable insights she's gained about the industry and her work in guiding dentists through the process of selling their practices. Aziza emphasizes the importance of education, relationships, and integrity in building a successful DSO.

They will touch on such topics as:

• How Aziza got into dental school and became clinical manager of 36 locations, growing up in a family of dentists, and her valuations and exit plans.
• The importance of doing the right things and living a stress-free life, and how her reputation precedes her in dentistry.
• The shortfall of colleagues transitioning out of practices, why dentists need dental people, not business consultants, and Aziza’s five-year vision of the clinical care concept: “Dentists should always be forward-thinking and planning their future. Dentistry is changing today.”
• Their advice for dentists who want to start a consulting company and the importance of being in on the system, and how private equity plays a part in the valuation of dental companies.
• Key points to look at to determine the valuation of a practice, include the top-line revenue, collections, equipment, and staffing and the story of buying a practice in a vibrant area and expanding the business.
• What happened when a dental practice was sold, how it was one of the worst experiences of her career: “The biggest lesson learned from that experience is that doctors in the organization need to stay on for a period of time.”

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Connect with Aziza:

• Email: [email protected]
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aziza-abed-phdp/

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/
• Youtube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote:

“I feel like you can only grow your practice as much as you're growing the team around you, and how you treat the team.” - Aziza Abed

Have you ever thought about how successful people like Aprio’s Steven Au and Justin Schafer assist dentists in transitioning their practices? Have you thought about what it takes to value your practice in the near future?

On this episode of the Dentrepreneur Show, Dr. D. Todd Russell welcomes two guests from Aprio, LLP,  Justin Schafer, and Steven Au. With over 13 years of experience, Justin Schafer is the Director of Practice Transitions at Aprio, LLP. Justin is a recognized dental industry leader who guides clients through practice transitions, mergers, real estate purchases, banking, debt restructuring, and practice financing. Steven Au is the Senior Manager of Dental Transitions Regional Sales at Aprio, LLP. He specializes in providing custom solutions for every stage of the dental practice lifecycle, working with single practitioners, multi-location practices, and larger dental service organizations. Together, they work closely with all parties involved in the transition of ownership of dental practices to ensure successful closing and smooth transitions.

They will discuss their prior involvement in the dental industry and how their understanding of the clinical side has helped them assist dentists in transitioning their practices. The episode covers topics such as the importance of planning for retirement and dental practice valuation, as well as the benefits of working with a company like Aprio.

They will touch on such topics as:

• How they started in the industry, their positions and roles in Aprio, LLP, and when to start thinking about selling a practice.
• How to prepare for retirement, the two-fold approach to exit planning, and finding balance and not being afraid to pivot.
• The importance of knowing and being involved in the area in which you're selling, the steps to prepare for a potential buyer, and keeping the books clean.
• Streamlining the transition process for buyers and sellers and establishing a good cadence up front: “The dental service market is healthy and fit for the right buyer and seller.”
• Steven's thoughts on DSO and how private equity is changing the landscape of dentistry.
• Their advice for people who want to sell, and how to make more money by increasing profitability.
• Their good and bad experiences in real estate transactions, how they were influenced by people in the field of dentistry, and connecting with the community: “Disciplined people are the best people to surround yourself with.”

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Connect with Justin:

• Email: [email protected]
• Website: https://www.aprio.com

Connect with Steven:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenau1/
• Website: https://www.aprio.com

Connect with Dr. D. Todd Russell, DDS:

• Website: https://dentrepreneurllc.com/
• Youtube: @DentrepreneurShow
• LinkedIn: Dr. D Todd Russell, DDS
• Twitter: @drtoddrussell

Quote:

“Retirement should not come as a surprise, dentists should spend an enormous amount of time preparing and earning the right to have the degree to be able to set themselves up for success in the future. Exit when they want to on their own terms.” - Justin Schafer