When I first connected with Jason Trew (callsign: TOGA), I knew this conversation would challenge some assumptions about where design thinking belongs. Jason is an Air Force fighter pilot and strategy leader turned professor. What emerged from our conversation wasn't just another story about design thinking adoption, but a deeper exploration of what he sees happening when we distinguish between capital-D Design Thinking and lowercase-d design thinking, and why that distinction matters for everyone trying to create meaningful change.

Jason's journey from F-15 pilot to design educator reveals something crucial about how design thinking transforms not just what we do, but who we become as problem solvers. His work with thousands of Air Force officers, his deployment experiences in classified operations centers, and his current role (*at the time of recording) teaching at the Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD) offer unique insights into how design thinking functions when the stakes are genuinely high.

Listen to Learn About:

• What's the critical difference between capital-D Design Thinking and lowercase-d design thinking, and why does this distinction matter for practitioners?
• How can design thinking principles function effectively in highly structured, high-stakes environments where traditional approaches dominate?
• What role does psychological safety ("feeling safe, supported, and stretched in meaningful ways") play in enabling creative problem-solving?
• How do we balance the need for systematic approaches with the emergent, integrative nature of actual design work?
• When should leaders prioritize conditioning people into a "ready stance" versus teaching specific design methods?

Our Guest

Col Jason "TOGA" Trew (US Air Force, retired) represents a fascinating intersection of military leadership, academic rigor, and design practice. After graduating from the U.S. Air Force Academy and flying F-15s, Jason spent his final military decade revolutionizing how the Air Force approaches strategy education and leadership development. He earned a PhD in the history of technology, served as Dean and Vice Commandant of the Air Force Leadership School, and led design teams for Space Force education initiatives. Now a Professor of Design* Management at the Savannah College of Art and Design, Jason brings a unique perspective on what happens when design thinking meets organizational realities where failure isn't an option. (*At the time of recording.)

Episode Highlights

[02:10] Jason's journey from F-15 fighter pilot to design educator through strategy school and a PhD in technology history

[03:30] Discovery of a book dedicated to Icarus as hero rather than cautionary tale, sparking interest in playfulness complementing practicality

[04:20] How design thinking became curriculum at Air Force Leadership School serving 4,000 students annually

[05:10] Jason's certification in Lego Serious Play for facilitating innovation sprints and strategic thinking workshops

[07:20] The crucial distinction between capital-D Design Thinking and lowercase-d design thinking

[09:00] Capital-D focuses on activities and checklists; lowercase-d develops embodied sensibility for knowing what to do next

[11:40] Design thinking as conditioning people into a ready stance for handling surprise rather than teaching linear processes

[13:00] Why Jason believes design thinking changes the people involved, with problem-solving as bonus rather than primary goal

[14:40] How design thinking shifts perception to see multiple options beyond binary choices

[15:30] Jason's approach to ambiguous assignments that allows students to surprise him with creative solutions

[17:30] Learning design principles that avoid constraining student intelligence for the sake of rigid academic standards

[18:50] Design thinking's spillover effects on leadership and education beyond formal design practice

[22:40] Design thinking as fundamentally human activity connected to living well and building better communities

[25:10] Coffee shop door story illustrating how design changes your eyes to see problems everywhere

[26:40] Design as integrative discipline that's undisciplined in the best academic sense

[28:40] Framework of design as expedient - practical, opportunistic, and contextual rather than optimal

[30:00] Why expedient design requires ethical sensibility to guide this human superpower responsibly

[32:30] Jason's faith that if we designed current systems, we can design something better

[36:40] Deployment story of creating psychological safety in classified military operations center

[38:30] Using Lego as thermoplastic polymer strategic thinking tool to overcome initial skepticism

[39:00] Daily check-ins asking team members if they feel safe, supported, and stretched in meaningful ways

[41:10] Danger of treating organizational roles as reality rather than abstractions of actual people

[43:30] Failed redesign of Air Force Leadership School and lessons about empathy work threading through entire processes

[46:00] Dawan's diagnostic questions about organizational readiness and past innovation attempts

[48:30] Strategy for identifying key voices—influencers, critics, curmudgeons, and creators—in organizations

[49:00] Power of storytelling as diagnostic tool and method for strategic thinking

[50:40] Interest in story casting and narrative intelligence using physical artifacts like Lego Serious Play

[51:00] Connection to UN Principles for Responsible Management Education and sustainable development goals

[52:40] Jason's call for partnership in bringing design skills to local and systemic governance challenges

Questions to Help You Go Deeper

Learning

• What surprised you most about Jason's distinction between capital-D and lowercase-d design thinking, and how does this change your understanding of design thinking's role in organizations?

• Which aspects of Jason's "expedient" framework for design seem most valuable for your context — the practical, opportunistic, or contextual elements?

• How does Jason's experience with ambiguous assignments challenge your current approach to giving direction or defining success criteria?

Leading

• Where in your organization would Jason's "safe, supported, and stretched in meaningful ways" framework create the most value for team performance?

• How might you help your team understand the difference between learning design methods and developing a design sensibility?

• What would success look like if you implemented Jason's approach to activating the full diversity already present in your team?

Applying

• What's one small experiment you could run next week with leaving an assignment or challenge more open-ended?

• Which current organizational challenge could you address by focusing on conditioning people's "ready stance" rather than teaching them specific methods?

• How could you adapt Jason's storytelling diagnostic approach to better understand your team's readiness for change?

Practicing

• How will you build the habit of distinguishing between roles/responsibilities (abstractions) and the full capabilities of people in those roles?

• What support or resources do you need to practice Jason's approach of setting conditions rather than controlling outcomes?

• Who could you partner with to practice the kind of empathy work Jason describes as threading through entire processes?

Resources

Books We Discussed

Experiencing Design - Jason's top recommendation for understanding how activities yield experiences that yield ways of being in the world. Liedtka, Jeanne, Karen Hold, and Jessica Eldridge. Experiencing Design: The Innovator's Journey. Columbia Business School Publishing, 2021.

Creating Wicked Students - About giving students practice with authority and ambiguity in classroom settings. Hanstedt, Paul. Creating Wicked Students: Designing Courses for a Complex World. Stylus Publishing, 2018.

Tools We DiscussedLego Serious Play - Certification and facilitation methods for strategic thinking workshops

The Archipelago of Design - Security professionals using design approaches. 

COM-B Behavior Change Model - Capability, Opportunity, Motivation framework for behavior change. Michie, Susan, et al. "The Behaviour Change Wheel: A New Method for Characterising and Designing Behaviour Change Interventions." Implementation Science, vol. 6, no. 1, 2011, pp. 1-12.

Keep LearningResearch Nigel Cross and Bryan Lawson's work on how designers think. 

Cross, Nigel. Design Thinking: Understanding How Designers Think and Work. Academic Press, 2011.

Lawson, Bryan. How Designers Think: The Design Process Demystified. 4th ed., Architectural Press, 2005.

Explore participatory design and co-creation methodologies.

Schuler, Douglas, and Aki Namioka, editors. Participatory Design: Principles and Practices. Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 1993.

Simonsen, Jesper, and Toni Robertson, editors. Routledge International Handbook of Participatory Design. Routledge, 2013.

Investigate narrative intelligence

Mateas, Michael, and Phoebe Sengers, editors. Narrative Intelligence. John Benjamins Publishing Company, 2003. (Advances in Consciousness Research, vol. 46)

UN Principles for Responsible Management Education and sustainable development goals. United Nations Global Compact. Principles for Responsible Management Education. UN Global Compact Office, 2007.

Deepen Your Learning

Design Council UK + Systemic Design + Design in Government with Cat Drew — DT101 E78 Complements Jason's insights about bringing design to structured environments

Cognitive Bias + Ethics + Dreaming the Future of Design with David Dylan Thomas — DT101 E112 Works with this episode to understand different approaches to design education

Instructional Design + Adult Learning Experiences with Holly Owens — DT101 E134 Builds on Jason's themes about creating conditions for creative problem-solving

Jon said that when he first discovered the design operations community at the 2019 Design Ops Summit in Brooklyn, it felt like coming home. Here was this entire tribe of people who cared about the same things he’d been passionate about for years—creating systems that help designers do their best work. In this episode, I'm talking with Jon Fukuda, co-founder of Limina.co, about how design operations has evolved from an unnamed set of practices into a vital discipline that drives organizational excellence.

As organizations continue to face economic pressures, the conversation around design operations has become more critical than ever. How do we demonstrate the strategic value of design teams? How can operational excellence serve not just designers but business outcomes? Jon shares insights from his 20+ year journey—from early days defining UX practice models to his current role as a design ops leader and community builder.

This conversation reveals how the best design operations leaders think beyond tooling and process to focus on team health, cross-functional partnerships, and systems that elevate both human-centered practices and business innovation. Whether you're considering a move into design ops or looking to strengthen your design leadership approach, Jon's practical wisdom offers a roadmap for driving operational excellence in complex organizations.

Questions you'll be able to answer after listening:

• How might we structure the first 30-60-90 days in a new design operations role for maximum impact?
• What key misconceptions about design operations could undermine your effectiveness as a leader?
• When should design ops be positioned under product teams versus operating as a horizontal function?
• Why do organizations often view design teams as expendable during economic downturns, and how can we change that perception?
• How can design operations leaders demonstrate their impact on both team health and business outcomes?

About Jon Fukuda

Jon Fukuda is co-founder of Limina.co with over 20 years of experience as a user experience specialist. With expertise in UX strategy, design thinking, and UI design, Jon has led teams through human-centered requirements gathering, strategy development, interaction design, testing, and evaluation. His career journey started in the late 1990s when "user experience" was just being defined, giving him a unique perspective on how design practices have evolved. Most recently, Jon has dedicated his efforts to research and design operations facilitation for scalable, sustainable human-centered systems. His passion for operational excellence makes him a respected voice in the design ops community.

Episode Highlights

[01:30] Jon's journey began when "user experience" was just being defined

[02:10] Early exposure to coordinating UX work alongside business analysts and technologists

[03:40] "I always approached with a continuous improvement mindset - learn from mistakes, get better"

[04:50] The shift from individual excellence to system-level operational thinking

[06:40] Jon's team started defining specialized roles: information architects, interaction designers, visual designers

[08:40] On discovering the term design ops, "This is the work I've been doing for years - I just didn't have a word for it" — Jon

[10:00] The North Pacific Gyre metaphor: design ops managers pick up tasks no one else claims

[11:10] The community focuses on team health and infrastructure that supports practitioners

[12:20] Design ops handles everything from licensing software to managing team dynamics

[14:40] Different maturity levels: from surface-level design to strategic human-centered integration

[16:10] How design ops prevents team burnout and toxic workplace dynamics

[18:30] First steps for new design ops leaders: conduct a listening tour with your design team

[19:40] "Design operations is a servant leader role - you make sure people feel taken care of" — Jon

[21:30] Expand your listening tour to horizontal and vertical stakeholders to identify friction points

[22:40] The necessity of executive sponsorship when conducting large-scale assessments

[24:30] Building a shared vision of success that aligns stakeholders around design operations

[26:40] Design ops spans program management, infrastructure, HR partnerships, and career development

[27:00] Common misconception: reducing design ops to just design systems or program management

[29:40] Challenges of positioning design operations within product-led organizational hierarchies

[31:00] Why siloing design teams under product lines limits cross-organizational learning

[32:00] The Design Ops Assembly Slack community as a primary resource for practitioners

[34:40] Recommended resources: Nielsen Norman article and the Design Conductors book

[36:10] Design Ops Assembly Learning Labs offer stratified professional development programs

[38:40] Economic challenges lead organizations to view designers as expendable despite their value

[41:40] "The future requires better integration - both process and tooling" — Jon

[42:10] Need for better connections between design tools and broader business systems

 

Questions to Help You Go Deeper Learning

• What surprised you most about the spectrum of activities that fall under design operations, and why?

• How does the concept of operational excellence in design challenge or enhance your current understanding of design leadership?

• Which aspects of the listening tour methodology seem most valuable for your context?

Leading

• How might you help your team understand the connection between operational excellence and strategic business outcomes?

• Where in your organization would improved design operations create the most immediate value?

• What would success look like if you implemented a structured listening tour with your horizontal and vertical stakeholders?

Applying

• What's one small experiment you could run next week to improve an operational aspect of your design practice?

• Which current friction points in your team's workflow could be addressed using design operations principles?

• How could you adapt the first 30-60-90 days framework to fit your specific organizational context?  

Practicing

• How will you build stakeholder relationship management into your regular practice?

• What support or resources do you need to implement better integration between your design tools and broader organizational systems?

• Who could you partner with to practice articulating the business value of your design operations initiatives?

Resources

Nielsen Norman Group Design Ops 101 - An excellent primer that defines design operations as "the orchestration and optimization of people, processes, and craft in order to amplify design's value and impact at scale."

The Design Conductors - A new comprehensive book by Rachel Posman and John Calhoun from Salesforce, providing guidance on building DesignOps programs.

Patrizia Bertini's Website - Jon recommends her perspective on design ops and business value, with various articles on DesignOps strategy and measuring impact.

Events

Rosenfeld Media's Design Ops Summit - The premier annual conference for design operations professionals.

Henry Stewart's Creative Operations + Design Operations Events - These events take place in New York, London, Los Angeles and other cities, often featuring co-located Design Operations Symposiums.

Deepen Your Learning

Operations + Human Centered Design + Art with Alvin Schexnider — DT101 E116 - Explores the intersection between operations, human-centered design practices, and artistic approaches to problem-solving, providing additional context for operational excellence in design organizations.

Creating a UX Career with Sarah Doody — DT101 E77 - Offers insights into career development for UX professionals that complements the discussion on design operations leadership and team development.

Ask Like a Designer — DT101 E61 - Introduces the six designer voices (Builder, Scout, Tinker, Facilitator, Traveler, and Pro) that can help design operations leaders develop a more comprehensive approach to supporting their teams and driving excellence.

The tension between doing good research and delivering on tight timelines is something I've experienced throughout my career in design and innovation. This conversation with Sam Zucker unpacks powerful approaches to making research more sustainable and equitable while building systems that support continuous learning and engagement.

What particularly struck me was Sam's practical framework for embedding research into organizational workflows. Her approach transforms research from a periodic, resource-intensive effort into an ongoing capability that shapes decision-making and product development. This represents a crucial evolution in how we think about evidence-based design.

 

Questions This Episode Helps You Answer

• How can we build sustainable research systems that work within real-world constraints?

• What makes equity-based research different from traditional approaches?

• When should we adapt research methods for regulated environments?

• How might we use prototypes to get better research insights?

• Why do continuous research systems often succeed where one-off studies fail?

I invited Sam to share her expertise because she brings a unique perspective on making research work in complex, regulated environments while maintaining a deep commitment to equity and inclusion. Her experience spans from reimagining college financial aid experiences to transforming employer benefits, always with a focus on serving people who are often overlooked in traditional research.

 

Episode Highlights

[01:40] Sam describes her journey from an interdisciplinary background at Carnegie Mellon studying conceptual art, communication design, and sociolinguistics to founding Reroute Research, illustrating how diverse educational foundations can lead to innovative research approaches.

[03:00] Shares insights from working on College Abacus, a groundbreaking tool that helped students understand true college costs beyond sticker prices, demonstrating how design research can tackle complex financial decisions.

[05:30] Articulates her core focus: taking complex decisions (like college choice or insurance selection) and making them more understandable and actionable for users, revealing how design research can simplify without oversimplifying.

[08:30] Introduces the innovative "researcher in residence" model where she embeds within companies for 3–4 months, showing how deeper integration leads to better knowledge transfer and organizational impact.

[12:00] Explains her commitment to equity-based design and how it shapes recruiting practices, emphasizing the importance of reaching participants who are typically underrepresented.

[15:30] Details practical strategies for inclusive recruitment, including flexible scheduling, multiple contact attempts, and accommodating cancellations — demonstrating how research processes themselves need to be designed for equity.

[18:30] Shares approach to reciprocity in research, explaining how she ensures participants benefit from the process through information sharing and resource connections.

[22:00] Describes how to build sustainable research systems that organizations can maintain long-term, emphasizing the importance of integrating with existing tools and workflows.

[25:30] Provides a success story of Better Future Forward implementing a continuous research system, showing how research can become embedded in organizational culture.

[31:30] Explains her approach to using low-fidelity prototypes early in research to get more accurate insights about what people actually want versus what they say they want.

[37:30] Shares expertise on conducting research in highly regulated environments, emphasizing the importance of reading and understanding regulations firsthand rather than relying on others' interpretations.

[41:30] Offers valuable advice for researchers working in regulated environments: build relationships with supportive stakeholders who can help drive innovation forward while navigating constraints.

[45:00] Concludes with an important insight about the critical role of language in UX, noting how sometimes the most impactful research finding can be identifying the right word choice for users.

 

Questions to Help You Go Deeper

Learning

What surprised you about Sam's approach to continuous research systems and why?

How does her equity-based framework challenge or enhance your current research practice?

Which aspects of the researcher-in-residence model seem most valuable for your context?

Leading

How might you help your team understand and apply continuous research approaches?

Where in your organization would more equitable research practices create the most value?

What would success look like if you implemented ongoing research systems with your team?

Applying

What's one small experiment you could run next week with prototype-based research?

Which current challenge could you address using Sam's approach to participant recruiting?

How could you adapt the continuous research system to work in your specific context?

Practicing

How will you build more equitable research practices into your regular work?

What support or resources do you need to implement continuous research systems?

 

Resources I Recommend

Monteiro, Mike. Ruined by Design: How Designers Destroyed the World, and What We Can Do to Fix It. MULE BOOKS, 2024. 

>>> Sam specifically mentioned finding this essential reading and I agree. This bold update of Monteiro's classic work challenges us to face the ethical implications of our design choices head-on. The 2024 edition feels especially relevant for research practitioners wrestling with AI ethics, privacy concerns, and the increasing impact of our design decisions on society. While provocative, it provides practical frameworks for making better choices about what we create and why.

Monteiro, Mike. Design Is a Job: The Necessary Second Edition. Edited by Lisa Marie Marquis, Mule Books, 2024. 

>>> While not mentioned in our conversation, this book expands on many of the ideas in this episode and is essential reading for every designer.

Reece, Erik. Utopia Drive: A Road Trip through America’s Most Radical Idea. First paperback edition, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2017. 

>>> Sam highlighted this as one of her favorite books, noting how it connects to design thinking through its exploration of systematic change efforts. The book examines America's history of utopian communities as design experiments. I find it valuable for understanding how ambitious visions for change interact with real-world constraints — a tension researchers regularly navigate.

Hall, Erika. Just Enough Research. 2024 edition, Mule Books, 2024. 

>>> While not directly referenced by Sam, this newly updated guide aligns perfectly with her lean, practical approach to research. It provides excellent frameworks for right-sizing research efforts to match organizational constraints while maintaining rigor. The 2024 edition adds valuable perspective on remote research and working within regulated environments.

Gray, Dave, et al. Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers. O’reilly, 2010. 

>>> Sam mentioned returning to this book often, seeing it as an intersection of conceptual art and facilitation techniques. I agree. While positioned as a workshop tool, Gamestorming’s techniques for structured exploration and collaborative meaning-making are invaluable for research sessions. The methods can help create the trust and openness Sam emphasized as crucial for good research.

 

Tools We Discussed

Typeform: For research participant feedback loops

Salesforce: Example of embedding research in existing systems

Asana/Jira/Notion: Options for research operations management

 

Deepen Your Learning

5.5 Things Every Designer Should Know About Hacking Bureaucracy with Marina Nitze — DT101 E106

Language + Design Research + Researcher Self-Care with Abby Bajuniemi — DT101 E96

Trauma-Informed Design + Participatory Design Perils + Research with Vulnerable Populations with Sarah Fathallah — DT101 E72

Remember to join Ask Like a Designer, our learning community at fluidhive.com/podcast for more resources and conversations about design thinking in practice!

In this episode, I explore how architectural thinking enhances strategic decision-making with Adam Griff.

Our conversation reveals how his architectural background shapes his approach to helping higher education institutions navigate complex decisions and create flexible space solutions.

We dig into the challenges of designing spaces that can adapt to unknown futures and discuss how universities can better integrate with their communities. 

I particularly love how Adam frames flexibility in building design as creating platforms for future adaptations rather than just multi-purpose spaces.

We also explore the tension between academic and organizational decision-making and how to create and decide while delivering innovation in higher education.

Questions This Episode Helps You Answer

• How does thinking like an architect help organizations make better strategic decisions?

• What makes flexibility essential in both physical spaces and organizational processes, and how can we intentionally design for it from the beginning?

• What elements create environments where good decisions emerge, and how can we support better decision-making outcomes?

• How do we determine whether physical space is the best solution for achieving our organizational goals, and what questions should we ask before investing in space?

• How can we think about buildings as adaptable platforms that support evolving human needs rather than fixed structures with predetermined uses?

• How might universities and colleges create meaningful connections between campus development and community growth that benefit both?

• What strategies help organizations balance the need for scholarly rigor with efficient administrative decision-making, and how can these different approaches work together effectively?

Episode Highlights

[00:00] Introduction and background on Adam Griff

[01:38] How architectural thinking shapes strategic problem-solving

[04:17] Managing diverse stakeholders in higher education contexts

[05:35] Understanding people’s needs versus asking for solutions

[07:31] Orchestrating organizational decision-making

[09:13] The importance of decision-making culture in institutions

[11:20] Building trust and managing participation in decisions

[14:15] Creating shared understanding of evidence and good decisions

[17:04] Balancing organizational conditions with decision quality

[19:38] Making decisions with incomplete information

[21:36] Academic versus administrative approaches to decisions

[24:40] Rethinking flexibility in organizational strategy

[25:25] Space as a medium for service delivery

[26:51] Designing buildings as platforms for adaptation

[29:14] Lifecycle costs and sustainable building design

[30:48] Integration of campus and community development

[33:31] Responding to demographic changes in higher education

[35:33] Finding what is "uniquely possible" for institutions

[39:12] Moving from master planning to scenario-based "playbooks"

[41:09] Closing thoughts and connecting with Adam

 

Questions to Help You Go Deeper

Learning

How does architectural thinking about constraints and systems change your approach to organizational challenges?

What surprised you about our discussion of decision-making quality? Why?

Leading

How might you redesign decision-making environments in your organization?

What would change if you approached strategic planning as creating a playbook rather than a rigid strategic plan?

Applying

What's one small experiment you could run next week to improve your team's decision-making space?

Choose a current project or challenge. How might it benefit from thinking about systems and constraints like an architect?

Practicing

How will you incorporate the "Is space the right medium?" question into your solution development process?

What is one idea from the episode that you will apply in the next two two weeks?

Guest Resources

Adam on LinkedIn

Adam on Academia

Gamification: How to Play

Gensler

Gensler Research & Insights

Stewart Brand's "How Buildings Learn"

The High Line, NYC

Higher education demographic/enrollment cliff

Scenario planning methodologies

COM-B behavior change model

Stranded assets

 

Resources I Recommend

DT101 Episodes

Radical Participatory Design + Relationships in Complex Systems Inclusive Design with Victor Udoewa — DT101 E127

Talk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change with Julie Dirksen — DT101 E131

Healthcare Design: Evidence-based, Business Fluent, and Change Prepared with Matt Van Der Tuyn — DT101 E140

Books

Brown, Peter C., Henry L. Roediger, and Mark A. McDaniel. Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning. Cambridge, Mass: The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 2014. -- Orchestrating good decisions requires understanding how people learn. Before people can decide about something new they must learn the information they need to know to make a good decision and what constitutes a good decision in this context. Read chapter 8.

Ariely, Dan. Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions. Revised and Expanded edition, First Harper Perennial edition published. Harper Business & Economics. New York: Harper Perennial, 2010. -- Ariely walks you through ways we make decisions that conflict with classic economic rationality, like: The Effect of Expectations: Our preconceptions and expectations significantly influence our experiences and decisions. For instance, people report greater pain relief from more expensive placebos, demonstrating how price can affect perceived value. The Cost of Ownership: Once we own something, we tend to overvalue it (the "endowment effect").

Heath, Chip, and Dan Heath. Decisive: How to Make Better Choices in Life and Work. New York: Random House Books, 2014. -- Don’t trust your gut. It hates you. You’ll learn how to slow down and avoid becoming a cautionary tale like the ones in this book.

Kahneman, Daniel. Thinking, Fast and Slow. First paperback edition. Psychology/Economics. New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2013. -- "Thinking, Fast and Slow" reveals how our minds use both quick instincts and careful analysis to make choices, helping innovators design solutions that work with human psychology rather than against it.

Thaler, Richard H., and Cass R. Sunstein. Nudge: Improving Decisions about Money, Health, and the Environment. Final edition. New York: Penguin Books, an imprint of Penguin Random House LLC, 2021. -- Nudge "Nudge" reveals how small changes in how choices are presented can dramatically impact decision-making and behavior at scale, while preserving freedom of choice.

 

I'd love to hear what insights you're taking away from this exploration of architecture, strategy, and organizational design. Share your thoughts and stay updated at https://fluidhive.com/design-thinking-101-podcast/ 

Stay lucky ~ Dawan

 

Sahibzada Mayed is a creative alchemist who uses design and storytelling to cultivate joy and imagination as tools of liberation. Mayed serves as the Co-Lead for Strategy and Research at Pause and Effect, a liberation-focused imagination and design collective based on Coast Salish territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, Tsleil-Waututh Nations. Beyond that, Mayed leads a small-scale startup, Naranji, that focuses on gender justice and decolonization in fashion. Today, we talk about decolonizing design and creative liberation.

Listen to learn about: >> The impact of colonialism and power structures on design >> The need for critical social analysis in design >> Designing for Joy >> Decolonizing design >> The importance of locality and place in design >> Rethinking how we think about and experience systems Our Guest Sahibzada Mayed is a creative alchemist who uses design and storytelling to cultivate joy and imagination as tools of liberation. Mayed serves as the Co-Lead for Strategy and Research at Pause and Effect, a liberation-focused imagination and design collective based on Coast Salish territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, Tsleil-Waututh Nations. Beyond that, Mayed leads a small-scale startup, Naranji, that focuses on gender justice and decolonization in fashion. Their work has been prominently featured during New York and Chicago Fashion Weeks and highlighted in several publications across the United States, Pakistan, Thailand, and Japan. Mayed's identity is shaped by their background as a Muslim immigrant of Persian, Afghan, Indian, and Pakistani heritage, as well as lived experiences of queerness, disability, and neurodivergence. Show Highlights [02:15] Mayed’s unconventional journey into design, combining engineering and social sciences. [04:05] How this background has helped Mayed in their work. [06:01] Mayed’s current work focus is on understanding the impact of colonialism in design. [07:36] The challenge of collaborating when existing power differentials have yet to be addressed. [09:28] What is power? [12:04] Mayed shares thoughts on designing when you’re close to, or a part of, the community you’re designing for, versus being outside that community. [13:53] Dawan talks about how perfection is the enemy of change. [15:57] The fear and discomfort of taking responsibility for causing harm. [16:28] Good intentions do not absolve responsibility. [17:30] Building accountability into what you design. [19:19] Ethics in design and looking for the potential of harm while designing. [22:45] There is an assumption of neutrality and objectivity around design. [24:47] Designing to prevent harm, and also designing for joy and compassion and care. [29:45] Decolonizing design. [35:12] Grounding design in the context of the place and space where it will live. [38:47] Shifting the way we think about design, to move beyond the human. [40:44] Rethinking how we think about and experience systems. [45:13] Last thoughts from Mayed about doing the work and the responsibility that comes with that. LinksMayed on LinkedInMayed on MediumMayed’s websitepause + effect - 5-week intensive, Reimagining ResearchInterview: Fashion Designer Sahibzada MayedCultivating Design Ecologies of Care, Community, and CollaborationI Don’t Want A Seat at Your Table w/ sahibzada mayedDecentralizing Power through Design with Sahibzada Mayed and Lauren Lin Book Recommendations Emergent Strategy: Shaping Change, Changing Worlds, by Adrienne Maree Brown

DT 101 EpisodesDesign Social Change with Lesley-Ann Noel — DT101 E128 Radical Participatory Design + Relationships in Complex Systems Inclusive Design with Victor Udoewa — DT101 E127 Design Ethics with George Aye — DT101 E136

Matthew Van Der Tuyn is a designer and healthcare innovation strategist. Matt is the Senior Director of Design and Strategy at the Center for Health Care Transformation and Innovation at Penn Medicine. The mission at the Center is to serve as a catalyst and accelerator for initiatives that dramatically improve health outcomes, patient and provider experiences, and decrease the cost of care. Matt has had the unique opportunity to help build the Center’s design, discipline, and elevate design thinking as a key tool in Penn Medicine's organizational toolbox. Matt's design process balances divergent and creative thinking to push beyond incremental solutions with the rigor of an evidence-based approach. We talk about becoming and being a designer in healthcare and Matt's practice.

Listen to learn about: >> The unique challenges of designing and innovating in the healthcare space >> Problem-centric vs solution-centric thinking and action >> The importance of change management in the design process Our Guest Matt is a designer and health care innovation strategist. Matt’s design roots are in information, product, and service design. His design practice began with visual arts, information design, and product design for luxury goods before deciding to pivot into design for social impact. With this new focus on using design to solve societal issues, Matt’s work expanded into the design of services and co-design as a tool for empowering disadvantaged communities. Matt’s guiding principle is that design is a mindset that anyone can leverage, and that the role of the “Designer” is to help others tap into this mindset to imagine new possibilities.

In 2012, Matt made a leap into health care when he joined the newly minted Center for Health Care Transformation and Innovation at Penn Medicine (CHTI). The mission of this new center was to serve as a catalyst and accelerator for initiatives that dramatically improve health outcomes, patient and provider experiences, and decrease the cost of care.

Entering as the first designer on this new team, Matt has had the unique opportunity to help build CHTI’s design discipline and elevate design thinking as a key tool in Penn Medicine’s organizational toolbox. Matt’s design process balances divergent and creative thinking to push beyond incremental solutions with the rigor of an evidence-based approach.

Matt leads with the belief that the foundation of great design, and building a culture of innovation, is empowerment. That the greatest ingredient for innovation in any large service organization is the people on the front lines of service delivery who have the passion, insight, and opportunity to effect change. However, there are not often clear pathways for these staff to gain traction with ideas nor are there efficient ways for leadership to identify and support these frontline champions. Matt believes bridging this gap, through design, between high-level organizational objectives and the frontline staff with the answers, where agency is created for innovation, is the key to unlocking the true potential of an organization.

Matt does not see design as a silver bullet, but rather a binder that can align the many, diverse, voices and skills needed for transformative solutions. In addition to design, Matt will quickly point to the various disciplines and individuals across Penn Medicine that he feels create the secret sauce that makes anything possible. From behavioral economists to data scientists, quality and safety experts to hospitality experts, Matt is a firm believer that everyone has something to contribute, if we center ourselves around a shared set of values that prioritize improving the lives of others. Show Highlights [02:02] Matt’s love of the fine arts, and why he ended up in graphic design. [02:34] Evolving from graphic design into product design of dinnerware. [03:25] The book that helped change Matt’s design path. [04:33] Grad school at the University of Arts in Philadelphia. [05:44] How Matt’s grad school project with Penn Medicine led to the creation of the Center he works at today. [09:30] Being problem-centric instead of solution-centric. [12:45] The unique challenges of innovation work in healthcare. [14:26] One of Matt’s big “a-ha!” moments. [15:29] An exercise Matt uses to help people move past assumptions and think creatively. [18:31] Looking for the people who really wanted the help. [19:34] Storytelling in Matt’s work. [22:28] The need for rigor and evidence when designing for healthcare. [24:42] Matt encourages new designers to find ways to measure the success of their work. [25:44] Getting comfortable with the business and finance side of healthcare. [29:38] The importance of good change management. [30:55] Using behavior design to help people with change. [31:27] Conflict as a natural part of the design process. [35:57] Matt’s advice for those wanting to work in healthcare design. [38:32] Books and resources Matt recommends. Links Matthew on LinkedIn Matthew at UPenn MedicinePenn Medicine: Center for Health Care Transformation and InnovationA Global Pandemic Turned Everything Upside Down. What Has Penn Medicine’s Innovation Team Learned From That?

 

Book Recommendations Design Revolution: 100 Products The Empower People, by Emily Pilloton The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life, by Erving Goffman DT 101 EpisodesHealthcare + Systems + Risk + Design with Rob Lister — DT101 E122 A Designer’s Journey into Designing for Health and Healthcare with Lorna Ross — DT101 E45 Designing Health Systems + Creating Effective Design Workshops with Sean Molloy — DT101 E44

Christina Hanschke's career journey has spanned many diverse roles. She's been a music therapist, nanny, and UX researcher, and she’s currently a Design Lead at Final Mile, where she applies a multidisciplinary approach to address pressing societal changes, drawing from behavioral science, human-centered design, and systems thinking. As an adjunct faculty at DePaul University, Christina extends her passion for leveraging behavioral science in human-centered design to the next generation of innovators fostering a diverse culture of curiosity and continual learning. Christina and I talk about behavioral science, design for global health, and the importance of learning design.

Listen to learn about: >> Behavioral science in healthcare >> Final Mile’s work in the global health space >> Collaboration and co-creation with clients >> Team facilitation Our GuestChristina's career journey, spanning diverse roles as a music therapist, nanny, and UX researcher, lays the groundwork for her current position as a Design Lead at Final Mile. Here, she applies a multidisciplinary approach to address pressing societal challenges, drawing from behavioral science, human-centered design, and systems thinking. She has had the privilege of collaborating with and supporting the efforts of community champions, local partners and ministries to address complex challenges such as HIV and vaccine hesitancy (COVID-19 and HPV). 

Additionally, as an adjunct faculty at DePaul University, Christina extends her passion for leveraging behavioral science in human-centered design to the next generation of innovators, fostering a culture of curiosity and continual learning.

When she isn’t reading on the couch with her dogs, Christina finds joy in making music with friends. Show Highlights [02:38] Christina’s career started in music therapy, working with children, before becoming a nanny while going to graduate school at DePaul. [03:44] Moving into UX research in business. [04:01] Christina’s role at Final Mile. [04:44] Working in the global health arena. [05:27] Christina and her team’s work on vaccine hesitancy. [08:38] Working with different countries and cultures. [11:30] Dawan and Christina talk about handling power dynamics in their work. [13:49] How Christina helps the people she’s working with to see value in the work. [14:51] Using social learning and group work to encourage engagement and let them experience the value first-hand. [17:54] Christina offers advice for facilitators. [22:12] Behavioral science is understanding how people make decisions. [22:33] The complicated behavioral challenges in the healthcare space. [23:50] Understanding the “intent to action” gap. [25:13] How starting a new project looks for Christina’s team. [27:28] Co-creating and prototyping behavioral interventions with the people living the health issue. [29:05] Using visualizations to quickly capture ideas and tell stories. [31:36] Giving adults permission to be creative and curious. [32:33] Christina asks Dawan about how he incorporates play into his work. [34:29] Getting people to practice listening early on in an event or project. [36:34] Other ways to get participants to connect and engage. [39:32] Helping people get comfortable with discomfort. [42:09] One thing Christina really enjoyed about working with teams in Kenya. [46:30] There’s no single way to do design thinking. [47:17] Christina’s experiences teaching graduate students about behavioral science and UX. [50:21] Working with clients should be a collaborative relationship. [52:25] Avoiding overcomplication of the process. [56:27] Resources Christina recommends and that have helped her in her work. [57:45] Last words from Christina on the importance of continual learning, and learning outside of your usual sphere.

 

LinksChristina on LinkedIn Christina on ResearchGateFinalMile ConsultingImproving Vaccine Uptake Book Recommendations Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman Beyond Sticky Notes: Co-design for Real: Mindsets, methods and movements, by Kelly Ann McKercher DT 101 EpisodesTalk to the Elephant: Design Learning for Behavior Change with Julie Dirksen — DT101 E131 Behavioral Design X Service Design with Anne van Lieren — DT101 E40 Behavioral Science + Behavior Change Design + Social Impact with Dustin DiTommaso — DT101 E28

Stephanie Gioia is a founder at Future Work Design with a focus on strategic planning and organizational innovation. She also serves as the director of the Either/Org project and teaches human-centered design for organizational innovation at the University of Oregon's Executive MBA program. She’s taught at Stanford’s d.school, University of Michigan, and Pacific Northwest College of Art. She is the founder of deckaholic.com, the world's largest library of card decks for problem solving and creativity. We talk about organizational design and strategy, and helping organizations navigate change.

Listen to learn about:>> Organizational design >> Either/Org’s Inspiration Library for organizations >> Prototyping organizational changes >> Navigating and de-risking change Our GuestStephanie Gioia (she/her) is a founding partner at Future Work Design with a focus on strategic planning and organizational innovation. Stephanie was one of the earliest strategists to use the power of Human Centered Design to solve organizational design challenges. Stephanie also serves as director of The Either/Org Project, an organizational design inspiration lab. This project vibrates all her interests: organization design, practical tool-making, learning and inspiration, and a firm belief that we can change the whole world by changing the world of work.

Stephanie teaches Human Centered Design for Organizational Innovation at University of Oregon’s Executive MBA program. In the past she has taught programs at Stanford’s d.school, University of Michigan, and Pacific Northwest College of Art. She is the founder of www.deckaholic.com, the world's largest library of card decks for problem solving and creativity.

Stephanie holds an MBA from the University of Michigan in Strategy and Organizational Sensemaking and earned her B.A. in History and Government from Georgetown University. She lives in beautiful Klickitat country (White Salmon, WA) with her partner Dave and is a mom to two fantastic kids. Show Highlights [01:59] Stephanie’s interest in organizational life led her to taking jobs in large organizations to see how they functioned. [02:40] How can we make organizations operate better and be a better experience for employees? [03:16] Getting an MBA in strategy and organizational sense making. [03:52] Deciding to use design thinking to prototype and design better workplaces. [04:55] Her time at IDEO. [05:25] Co-founding Future Work Design. [06:22] Working with clients at Future Work Design. [07:54] Using Future Work Design’s Wayfinder card deck to help a team align and start working together. [11:05] Helping clients get comfortable with ambiguity. [11:23] Stephanie offers an example of a client project focused on reimagining how the client might make decisions better aligned with their core values. [16:23] Reclaiming the “design” part of organizational design. [20:18] The Either/Org’s inspiration library for organizations looking to innovate. [22:57] Visualizing an organization beyond the org chart. [23:57] Organizational prototyping. [29:25] Helping organizations navigate and de-risk change. [32:11] A project for an international NGP that entailed changing their entire operating model. [34:07] Managing the expectations of change.

Links Stephanie on LinkedIn Stephanie on Medium Stephanie on Instagram Stephanie on YouTube Stephanie on UX Magazine Future Work Design either/org Deckaholic DT 101 Episodes

Civic Design + Innovation Ops + System Design with Ryann Hoffman — DT101 E62

Employee Experience by Design: How to Create an Effective EX for Competitive Advantage with Belinda Gannaway — DT101 E75

UX + Into, Through, and (Almost) Out of Design with Kara DeFrias — DT101 E103

Sarah Doody is a user research experience designer and researcher. She's also the founder of Career Strategy Lab, a UX career coaching program. In 2011, she co-created the curriculum and taught for General Assembly's first 11-week UX intensive program in New York City. She has extensive experience doing experience design, product strategy, and user research for companies including Fatherly, Sling, Citi Bike, We Work, Domino Magazine, Tictail, the Muse, Dow Jones and more. She speaks at conferences and teaches workshops worldwide. Today, we talk about designing your career and user experience for small businesses.

Listen to learn about: >> Creating a career roadmap >> Career marketing materials and messaging >> The importance of stories and storytelling when interviewing Our GuestSarah Doody is the founder of Career Strategy Lab™, a program that helps UX and product professionals at all career stages navigate their job search and articulate their skills and experience through individualized and group coaching. She is also the host of the Career Strategy Lab podcast.

Since 2021, professionals who have worked with Sarah have increased their salaries by 40% on average and have been hired at prestigious brands such as Microsoft, Amazon, Salesforce, Nordstrom, Spotify, Blue Origin on average in 3.5 months. She has been featured as an expert in Forbes, Fast Company, Insider, Fox Business, and more. 

Show Highlights [01:43] Sarah originally planned to have a career in neuroscience. [02:19] During a gap year, she ended up in graphic and web design instead, which led to a focus on information architecture. [2:50] From there, Sarah turned to product and user experience design and user research. [3:43] Launching her own consulting company. [04:40] How creating and teaching a workshop about building a design portfolio launched Sarah’s new career coaching business. [06:07] One mistake many make when it comes to their careers. [07:57] Sarah’s company helps people do research on themselves to help them find jobs and careers that fulfill them professionally and personally. [09:04] Being more intentional when thinking about your career. [10:47] Creating a career roadmap. [15:08] Sarah’s advice for those who are trying to figure out their next career moves. [15:30] The importance of business relationships. [18:01] The three core career marketing materials. [19:41] Focus on outcomes. [21:31] Tailoring messaging for the job you want next. [26:26] As a job candidate, you’re a product and companies hiring are your customers. [27:35] Researching companies before the interview. [29:16] Anders Ericsson and the 10,000 hour rule. [30:30] Using stories in interviews. [34:09] Think like a lawyer when interviewing. [39:16] How Sarah and her team work on projects. [42:02] Where to find out more about Sarah and her work. [43:27] Sarah’s last advice about career planning. Links Sarah on LinkedIn Sarah’s website Sarah on YouTube Sarah on Instagram Sarah on Medium Sarah on Forbes Sarah on Inside Design Sarah on UX Magazine Career Strategy Lab Career Strategy Podcast Sarah Doody on the democratization of UX and thinking like a designer 3 Signs Your Team Isn’t Doing Enough User Research The NN/g UX Podcast: Designing a UX Career The UX Growth Podcast, Season 2 Episode 12 People of Product: How to Finally Land a Job in UX DT 101 EpisodesUX + Design Teams with Nick Finck — DT101 E117 UX + Into, Through, and (Almost) Out of Design with Kara DeFrias — DT101 E103 UX Research + Research Teams + UX Camp DC with Glenette Clark — DT101 E80

This is the inaugural DT101 Live!, with guest George Aye. George co-founded Greater Good Studio with the belief that design can help advance equity. Previously, he spent seven years at global innovation firm IDEO before being hired as the first human-centered designer at the Chicago Transit Authority. He speaks frequently across the US and internationally. George holds the position of Adjunct Full Professor at The School of the Art Institute of Chicago. Today, we are talking live about ethics in design in the design industry. 

Listen to learn about: >> What is ethical design? >> The current state of ethics in the design industry >> Project “gut checks” and saying no to projects >> How power can warp ethics Show Highlights [01:33] Audience welcome + breakfast fun + mochi doughnuts! [05:20] Dawan shares the event agenda. [07:42] Dawan introduces George. [09:06] George starts off by talking about human-centered design. [09:41] The story of the invention of e-cigarettes on the Stanford campus and how it relates to human-centered design. [11:13] What George found most shocking about the story. [11:24] It’s not just about can we do something, it’s about should we do it? [12:38] Looking at the roots of the design industry. [13:13] The weakness of Dieter Rams’ ten principles of good design. [14:20] What we need is an ethical framework for good design. [15:12] How Greater Good Studio approaches ethics in design. [15:58] Lived experience is expertise. [16:21] Design is transformative. [17:04] The design industry and education has trained designers to always say yes to projects, but not to know when to say no. [18:01] George’s Ten Provocative Questions. [19:10] Losing one’s inner conscience and voice. [20:47] A succinct definition of power. [21:24] Power asymmetry. [23:59] The risk of working on projects that potentially cause harm. [26:00] Greater Good Studio’s weekly gut checks and breakup emails. [27:38] Some patterns and a framework when writing your own breakup emails. [29:12] Design is an accelerant. [31:08] We must call out the ways in which design can be harmful. [31:24] George’s ideas around a possible standard design code of ethics and standards for practice. [32:05] Accountability, not gatekeeping. [37:21] Leadership needs to constantly practice being receptive to hard feedback from the team. [38:19] The gut check is a deliberate tripping hazard. [40:28] Ethics for people who don’t normally handle ethics. [42:48] Approaching the potential for harm in a trained-to-be-optimistic design industry. [47:58] How do we approach C-suite and other leaders to have conversations around ethics? [51:49] What the next ten years looks like for ethics in design. Links George on LinkedInGeorge at SAICGreater Good StudioGreater Good Studio on MediumArticles by George Why designers write on the walls (and why you should, too)Design Education’s Big Gap: Understanding the Role of PowerIt’s Time to Define What “Good” Means in Our IndustryThe Gut Check, by Sara Cantor Aye DT 101 EpisodesDesign for Good + Gut Checks + Seeing Power with George Aye — DT101 E50 Design for Good + Ethics + Social Impact with Sara Cantor — DT101 E100 Trauma-informed Design + Social Work + Design Teams with Rachael Dietkus — DT101 E81