What if we’ve been measuring spiritual growth by all the wrong metrics?

In this episode, we sit down with our friend and teammate Benjamin Crawshaw to explore why so many of us feel stuck or discouraged in our discipleship journey—and why churches often feel the same. Together, we unpack the heart of Trueface’s “outcomes of spiritual growth” framework and ask the deeper questions: What are we actually aiming for? How do we know if discipleship is working? And why does love—not knowledge, effort, or productivity—always reveal true maturity?

We reflect on our own stories, the pastors we’ve met, and the countless conversations that led us to a simple but disruptive conviction: discipleship is the process of growing in love of God and others. From understanding our view of God, to maturing in authentic relationships, to overflowing love into the world—this episode invites us to breathe, slow down, and step into the long, patient work of becoming whole disciples.

If you’ve ever felt behind, confused, or weighed down by the pressure to “get discipleship right,” this conversation will give you hope, clarity, and a fresh vision of the life Jesus makes possible.

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