Divergent States

Divergent States

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Divergent States episodes

  • Inside Season Two: Integration, Not Escapism

    Season Two of Divergent States is about something simple and surprisingly rare: exploring altered states without losing touch with reality.

    In this preview episode, 3L1T3 and Bryan share two short moments from upcoming conversations that define the tone of the season ahead.

    In the first, Shane Mauss reflects on how psychedelics open people to awe—but also to certainty, conspiracies, and belief systems that can replace reality if no one pushes back. In the second, Cesar Marin explains why presence and human connection are the real work of integration, not endless chasing of peak experiences.

    Together, these moments capture what Divergent States has always tried to do: hold space for wonder without drifting into delusion, depth without losing grounding, and exploration rooted in real human connection.

    Patreon supporters get extended versions of these conversations, including sections that don’t survive algorithm-friendly edits. But this preview is here for everyone—because harm reduction, presence, and honest conversation shouldn’t be paywalled.

    Welcome to Season Two.

    Chapters

    00:00 – Welcome back & season context
    Introducing Season Two and why this year matters.

    00:28 – What Divergent States actually is
    What the show is: harm reduction, not hype or spiritual theater.

    01:05 – Shane Mauss: Awe, science, and belief systems
    The “ghost crocodile” and microscope analogy.

    04:49 – Why psychedelics create both insight and delusion
    Reflections on pattern-seeking and certainty in psychedelic spaces.

    05:20 – Cesar Marin: Presence as integration
    Connection, mushrooms, and staying grounded in real life.

    07:17 – The power of daily human connection
    Kids, texts, meditation, and showing up.

    08:55 – What Divergent States is really about
    Awe without delusion; depth without losing touch.

    09:15 – Patreon & how to support the show
    Extended cuts, deeper conversations, and why it matters.

    10:10 – Harm reduction & Zendo Project
    Why we partner with them and what the code supports.

    10:50 – Closing & Season Two welcome
    Personal sign-off and transition into the new season.

    Send us Fan Mail

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    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    13 min
  • Dennis McKenna: Nature, AI, and the Collapse of Separation

    Dennis McKenna joins 3L1T3 and Valerie Beltran to discuss the future of psychedelics, indigenous knowledge, and whether we are ready to bring these tools into mainstream culture without repeating the extractive patterns of the past. We explore the gap between good intentions and real reciprocity, what Western psychedelic enthusiasm is missing, and how community-based practice may matter more than clinical models alone.

    We also dive into the first biomedical study of ayahuasca with the UDV, how long-term members showed surprising changes in behavior and biology, and why the community structure may have played a larger role than the compound itself. Dennis talks about the work happening at the McKenna Academy, preserving Amazonian herbarium collections, digitizing ancestral plant knowledge, and the ESPD Symposia.

    This conversation calls out the cultural side of psychedelics, not just the science. If psychedelics are going to help, they must be integrated with wisdom, not just technology.

    Join our Patreon for the exclusive extended interview!

    Key Points

    • Psychedelics entered global awareness through indigenous stewardship, not Western invention
    • Reciprocity requires more than money and acknowledgment
    • The ESPD Symposia preserve ethnobotanical knowledge and make it public
    • Efforts to digitize herbarium collections in Peru before they are lost

    Chapters

    00:00 Welcome to the season finale with Valerie
    01:10 Who Dennis McKenna is and why he still matters
    04:50 What still feels unresolved after 50 years
    06:15 Co-optation, capitalism, and indigenous knowledge
    09:00 The ESPD symposia and preserving ancestral knowledge
    12:40 Biognosis and digitizing Amazonian herbarium archives
    17:00 Why preserving knowledge matters more than artifacts
    18:35 The first biomedical study of ayahuasca with the UDV
    22:45 Behavioral change, alcoholism, and community support
    24:40 Serotonin transporter findings and biological mechanisms
    27:30 Neuroplasticity and long-term structural change
    31:00 Microdosing vs macro experiences
    33:20 Default mode network and stepping outside the self
    36:20 Separation from nature and cultural disconnection
    38:30 Technology, AI, and cultural fragmentation
    42:20 What real reciprocity might look like
    46:50 Avoiding cultural appropriation and extraction
    50:00 Psychedelics entering clinical models
    52:45 Mushrooms as ideal symbiotic partners
    56:00 Future of psychedelics in 10 years
    01:00:20 Ibogaine as global brain reset
    01:04:00 Evolution, partnership, and species symbiosis
    01:06:00 Closing thoughts

     Thanks to Dyl👽Alien for the music! 

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    1 hr 25 min
  • Betty Aldworth: MAPS, MDMA, and the Battle Over Psychedelic Medicine

    In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 sits down with Betty Aldworth, the new co-president of MAPS, as she steps into shared leadership with Ismail Ali following Rick Doblin’s four-decade run.

    Betty brings decades of experience in drug policy reform, from Colorado’s 2012 cannabis legalization campaign to leading Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and now helps guide MAPS through one of the movement’s most pivotal moments: the FDA’s rejection of Lycos Therapeutics’ MDMA-assisted therapy application.

    We unpack the tension between science and advocacy, urgency and rigor, and explore what real access means for people living with PTSD. Betty offers a candid, emotionally grounded look at the FDA’s critique, the role of stigma, and how MAPS plans to keep pushing forward through education, policy, and global research initiatives.

    Later, the conversation turns to the larger movement: political support from both sides of the aisle, state-level reform models, and MAPS’ upcoming 40th anniversary in 2026.

    Key Points

    • Betty’s path from SSDP to co-president of MAPS
    • The FDA’s rejection of MDMA-assisted therapy: what it really means
    • How “positive adverse events” became a sticking point in the FDA review
    • Durability of treatment effects and the debate over long-term data
    • Balancing activism, science, and education under MAPS’ new leadership model
    • The growing divide between regulatory caution and patient urgency
    • Grassroots and state-level psychedelic reform gaining ground
    • The stigma that still shadows MDMA despite decades of data
    • Harm-reduction advice for those seeking underground healing
    • What’s ahead for MAPS’ 40th anniversary and new research directions

    ⏱ Chapter Markers

    00:00 – Intro — Bryan’s stage play, today’s guest: Betty Aldworth
    02:00 – MAPS’ new leadership and legacy after Rick Doblin
    05:00 – Betty on stepping into the role and the three MAPS pillars
    08:00 – From activism to leadership — lessons from SSDP
    11:45 – Balancing research, advocacy, and education
    14:00 – FDA rejection letter — what really happened
    16:00 – “Positive adverse events” and the question of abuse potential
    22:30 – Durability of treatment and COVID-era data gaps
    26:30 – Prior MDMA experience and bias — myth or factor?
    29:20 – Politics, science, and the credibility dilemma
    32:30 – RFK Jr., AOC, and politicization of psychedelics
    35:00 – Echoes of the 1980s scheduling fight
    36:20 – What comes next — Phase III, audits, and resilience
    38:30 – MAPS’ evolving research priorities & global work
    41:00 – Normalization, decriminalization, and stigma
    43:45 – Science vs activism — carrying both forward
    48:00 – State-level reform and slow federal process
    50:30 – Cannabis rescheduling and broader reform
    52:00 – A message to people living with PTSD
    55:00 – MAPS’ 40th anniversary — what’s ahead
    57:00 – Closing reflections — stay weird, keep exploring

    Thanks to Dyl👽Alien for the music!

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    1 hr 8 min
  • David Bronner on Corporate Psychedelics, Mysticism, and the All-One Future

    Dr. Bronner’s Cosmic Engagement Officer David Bronner joins Divergent States for a candid, nuts-and-bolts conversation about building an “All One” company culture, pushing for psychedelic policy reform, and rewiring global supply chains to be fair, transparent, and regenerative. We trace the lineage from Rainbow Gatherings to Burning Man, from hemp activism to MAPS, and from commodity brokers to farmer-first vertical integration. Co-host therapist Valerie Beltran helps press on the tradeoffs: regulated access versus decriminalization, mission versus financing, growth versus grassroots.

    Key points

    • The “All One God Faith” DNA, salary caps (5× lowest vested wage), and why profit is a means, not the mission.
    • Why Dr. Bronner’s backed hemp early, fought DEA roadblocks, and supported MAPS, Oregon’s Measure 110, DC decrim, and church-based access models.
    • Regulated access vs. decriminalization: complementary pathways; cost, community, and safety implications.
    • Purpose-aligned financing: why many mission brands drift, and how the emerging Purpose Pledge aims to solve it.
    • Sourcing as activism: Ghana palm grown in multi-strata agroforestry; olive oil partnerships across Palestinian and Israeli producers; farmer income and soil health as first principles.
    • Regenerative Organic Certification: weaving soil health, animal welfare, and fair labor into one consumer standard.
    • Cultural lineage: Zendo/sanctuary work, AA’s Bill Wilson and LSD, Sacred Plant Alliance, and lessons from the Brotherhood of Eternal Love.
    • Pitfalls and PR landmines: navigating blame and lawsuits in a fast-shifting policy landscape.
    • Longevity over hype: why real soap beats detergents, and the quirky “punk rock soap opera” moment that proved it.
    • Practical integration: moving from unitive states to everyday choices—diet, sourcing, and local service.

    If this conversation resonated, follow the show on Spotify/Apple, leave a short review, and consider supporting the work on Patreon to keep community-driven media independent.

    Special thanks to Sandbgz for the music! Follow him on Spotify!

    00:00 – Intro & Setup
    02:00 – From Burning Man to the Mic
    04:35 – Origins & Rainbow Gathering Roots
    06:25 – The All One God Faith Legacy
    10:25 – Sourcing as Activism
    15:20 – Mission Financing & the Purpose Pledge
    17:35 – Building Roots & Staying Grounded
    22:30 – Why Risk Psychedelic Advocacy
    28:30 – Early Activism & the Hemp Wars
    33:00 – Meeting Rick Doblin at Burning Man
    37:00 – Decrim, Churches & Community Access
    39:15 – Pitfalls & Lawsuits
    40:30 – Choosing Battles & Lessons from Oregon 110
    42:45 – Integration & Regenerative Organic Agriculture
    46:45 – From Vision to Action
    51:55 – Balancing Perfection & Pragmatism
    55:45 – Longevity over Hype
    1:01:00 – Heaven on Earth & Deep Time
    1:03:45 – Brotherhood of Eternal Love & Rainbow Bridge
    1:08:30 – Closing Reflections
    1:12:00 – Outro & Patreon Call to Action

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    1 hr 18 min
  • Joe Moore on the Future of Psychedelics: From Underground to Mainstream

    Psychedelics are no longer the fringe—they’re reshaping medicine, culture, and consciousness itself.

    In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Joe Moore, co-founder and CEO of Psychedelics Today, to explore the messy evolution of the movement: from the chaotic 1960s to today’s corporate clinics and grassroots revival.

    They trace Psychedelics Today’s origins, dive into the Vital training program, and discuss what it means to build trust in a scene that still distrusts institutions. Joe shares insight into the next decade of psychedelic science—AI-assisted molecule discovery, new drugs entering clinical trials, and the fading of old stigmas—and the risks of turning medicine into marketing.

    Along the way, they talk Leary and McKenna, ketamine cults, LSD alchemy, and the underground traditions worth preserving.

    The result is a grounded, forward-looking conversation about authenticity, ethics, and the future of altered states.

    Key Points Covered 

    • How Psychedelics Today started from the breathwork underground
    • What the 1960s got wrong (and right) about psychedelics 
    •  The danger of idolizing substances and personalities — “don’t worship the drug” 
    • How overuse of ketamine mirrors past mistakes in psychedelic culture
      The future of psychedelic research and the AI-driven chemistry boom
      Vital, the 12-month training program creating the next generation of psychedelic professionals
    • What it takes to run an ethical business in a scene that distrusts business
      Harm reduction and why testing your substances matters more than ever
    •  The LSD Philosopher’s Stone — does the chemist’s energy shape the trip? 
    •  Why pleasure and integration must coexist in psychedelic healing 

    🎙️ Joe Moore joins r/Psychonaut for an AMA on October 9, 2025!
    🎧 Support the show and hear the Patreon-only “Trip Stories & Cosmic Jokes” bonus segment at patreon.com/divergentstates

    Special thanks to SndBagz for the music!

    00:00 – Intro / Bryan returns / Reggie Watts recap / Season 2 preview
    04:16 – Meeting Joe Moore / Origins of Psychedelics Today
    07:30 – Building a new media voice beyond academic monoculture
    08:46 – Lessons from the 1960s and the cult of personality
    12:00 – “Don’t Worship the Substance” – The Danger of Psychedelic Deification
    13:30 – Unsung Heroes: Shulgins, Dr. Z, Grof & Leonard Pickard
    15:00 – Repeating Old Mistakes: Ketamine Overuse and Media Myths
    17:40 – “Is Anyone Driving the Bus?” – Who Really Controls Psychedelics Today
    20:30 – Can Clinical Models Honor Mystical Experiences?
    23:00 – Psychedelic Journalism: Objectivity vs Calling Bullshit
    25:30 – Inside Vital – Redefining Psychedelic Training
    28:30 – Teaching Mysticism to Therapists
    31:00 – Building Trust in a Culture Skeptical of Business
    37:30 – The Next Decade – Five Psychedelics Likely to Be Legalized
    43:30 – Harm Reduction & Testing Culture
    46:00 – The LSD Philosopher’s Stone – Energy, Alchemy & Intention
    49:00 – Patreon Teaser – Trip Stories & Cosmic Humor
    55:00 – Wrap-Up w/ Bryan – Breathwork, Culture & Community
    59:00 – Closing – Future Guests, Patreon & Discord Invite

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    1 hr 3 min
  • What Psychedelics Actually Do to Creativity, with Reggie Watts

    Psychedelics are often framed as creativity boosters, but that’s not exactly what’s happening.

    In this conversation with Reggie Watts, we explore what psychedelics actually do to the creative process, from removing self-judgment to unlocking flow states and dissolving the internal filters that normally shape how we think and create.

    Reggie shares how different substances affect improvisation, why dissociatives offer a unique kind of creative space, and how altered states can shift the way we experience music, performance, and collaboration. Along the way, we get into ego, flow, and what it really means to “tap into” creativity—both with and without psychedelics.

    This isn’t about becoming more creative. It’s about understanding what’s already there—and what’s getting in the way.

    ⏱️ Chapter Markers

    •  00:00 Intro 
    •  02:39 Meeting Reggie Watts 
    •  03:39 Psychedelics & Creative Process 
    •  04:54 Creating in Different States 
    •  06:01 Flow State & Self-Judgment 
    •  07:33 Psychedelics & Improvisation 
    •  09:07 Past vs Future Consciousness 
    •  10:12 Creativity Without Psychedelics 
    •  11:55 Music, Trance, and Flow 
    •  13:12 Dissociatives & Creative Exploration 
    •  15:12 Mixing Substances & States 
    •  17:24 Cannabis, Nitrous, and Experience 
    •  18:38 Memory, Consciousness, and Identity 
    •  20:21 Collaborative Creation 
    •  22:32 Control vs Openness in Creativity 
    •  24:15 Mindset & Creative Outcomes 
    •  25:58 Processing Difficult Emotions 
    •  27:52 Movement, Music, and Healing 
    •  29:14 Letting Go & Permission to Be 
    •  30:54 Psychedelics: Tools or Collaborators? 
    •  32:58 Outro / Patreon Segment



    🎵 Thanks to Sndbagz for the music!

    https://on.soundcloud.com/rbYppKLjmcdWUBSrqQ

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    41 min
  • How Politics Could Derail Psychedelic Medicine — Again

    History shows politics can make or break psychedelic medicine, will we repeat the 1960s backlash, or finally move forward? 

    In this episode of Divergent States, we explore the uneasy intersection of psychedelics and politics. MDMA remains a Schedule I drug—classified as dangerous with no medical use—while at the same time advancing through FDA Phase III trials. This contradiction highlights the limbo psychedelics face today: criminalized on one side, medicalized on the other.

    We revisit the lessons of the 1960s, when political backlash ended promising psychedelic research for decades, and compare them to today’s fast-changing landscape. With figures like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. championing psychedelic medicine, the risk of partisan branding looms large. Can the psychedelic renaissance avoid being reduced to culture war ammunition?

    From Oregon and Colorado’s legalization models to global perspectives like Australia’s, we unpack the fragile future of access, safety, and legitimacy. And we emphasize why independent media, grassroots communities, and diverse voices are essential to keeping psychedelics rooted in healing rather than political agendas.

    🔑 Key Points

    • Psychedelics remain Schedule I but are simultaneously advancing toward FDA approval.
    • The 1960s crackdown shows the danger of entanglement with politics and culture wars.
    • Public opinion has shifted rapidly, with mainstream endorsements from figures like Oprah and Michael Pollan.
    • Risks of polarizing association (e.g., RFK Jr.) could trigger backlash despite strong science.
    • Oregon’s tightly regulated model vs. Colorado’s more open system—pros, cons, and accessibility challenges.
    • Potential for a two-tiered system: expensive legal clinics vs. criminalized underground use.
    • Independent media and grassroots communities play a key role in shaping the narrative.
    • Psychedelics could follow three futures: medicalized/corporate, grassroots/underground, or partisan football.
    • Safety concerns are emerging with unregulated “gas station mushrooms” and microdose products.
    • Global models like Australia’s nationwide legalization offer lessons for the U.S. path ahead.

    Chapters

    00:00 – The Psychedelic Contradiction
    MDMA is Schedule I and in FDA Phase III trials — the legal/medical limbo.

    02:00 – Why Politics Are Dangerous
    Why Divergent States avoids partisan debates, and how culture wars derail progress.

    06:30 – Lessons from the 1960s
    How Timothy Leary, Nixon, and the War on Drugs shut down decades of psychedelic science.

    09:45 – The Risk of Polarization
    RFK Jr., vaccines, and how associating psychedelics with a single figure fuels backlash.

    15:00 – Fragile Legitimacy
    Medical, cultural, and political legitimacy — and how easily it can collapse.

    20:20 – Can Psychedelics Unite Us?
    Hope for bipartisan support, parallels with cannabis legalization.

    24:00 – Global Models & Access
    Oregon vs. Colorado, Australia’s legalization, and fears of a two-tiered system.

    27:30 – Grassroots vs. Corporate Paths
    Safety concerns with “gas station mushrooms,” microdosing hype, and corporate oversight.

    31:00 – Pop Culture & Microdosing
    South Park satire, normalization, and the line between humor and harm.

    32:30 – Why Independent Media Matters
    Keeping psychedelics above politics and rooted in science, healing, and community.

    New Music from Sndbagz - check out his new EP "Chosen Path" on Soundcloud and Spotify

    Check out the accompanying Substack Article:
    https://divergentstates.substack.com/p/psychedelics-beyond-politics 

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    38 min
  • Compass Pathways: Independent Media Talks Psychedelic Medicine

    In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Kabir Nath, CEO of Compass Pathways, and Dr. Steve Levine, Chief Patient Officer, to talk about the future of psychedelic medicine. From FDA approval and insurance coverage to patient access, cultural safety, and patents, we dig into whether Compass is truly disrupting the pharma model or just reinventing it.

    We also share a major community update: the official Divergent States Discord is now open to all of r/Psychonaut. Built by Brady and the mod team, the server is a space for harm reduction, trip reports, deep dives, and authentic connection across the psychedelic movement.

    As always, this conversation is about asking the real questions without corporate PR filters. What Compass shared — and what they left unsaid — reveals as much about the future of psilocybin therapy as the answers themselves.

    👉 Join the movement: connect on Discord, support independent media on Patreon, and be part of the conversation. 

    https://discord.gg/swPwT6ZYun

    Key Points

    • FDA approval: path to affordability or illusion of access?
    • COM360 psilocybin therapy: synthetic model, patient journey, and therapy debate
    • Access & equity: insurance hurdles, pricing models, and patient foundations
    • Cultural safety: trauma-informed design, marginalized populations, indigenous roots
    • Patents & Pharma tension: innovation vs. corporate control in psychedelic medicine
    • Community news: Divergent States Discord officially launches for r/Psychonaut

    Chapters

     00:00 – Intro: Setting the frame for Compass Pathways
     01:30 – Community Update: Divergent States Discord opens for r/Psychonaut
     09:30 – Guest Intros: Kabir Nath & Dr. Steve Levine of Compass Pathways
     11:20 – Kabir on moving from pharma to psychedelics
     12:30 – Steve on ketamine clinics & new models of care
     14:15 – What “success” looks like for patients
     16:00 – COM360 psilocybin therapy: synthetic vs. natural & the role of therapy
     17:30 – How Compass plans to deliver psilocybin in different care settings
     18:40 – Patient hopes, fears, and the path to access
     20:00 – FDA approval, insurance, and affordability
     21:00 – Cultural safety, trauma-informed design, and community input
     21:45 – Indigenous engagement & staying “in their lane”
     24:15 – The next 5–10 years of psychedelic treatment
     26:10 – What could derail psychedelic medicine’s promise
     28:10 – Compass’ place in the broader psychedelic ecosystem
     29:50 – Outro: Independent media reflections & listener call to action 

    New Music from Sndbagz - check out his new EP "Chosen Path" on Soundcloud and Spotify

    https://open.spotify.com/artist/0T1LU2nJ9ibGIU3Bxin2X6
    https://soundcloud.com/user-918755844

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    40 min
  • Paul F. Austin: Mastering Microdosing and Unlocking Human Potential

    In this episode of Divergent States, host 3L1T3 and co-host Bryan sit down with Paul F. Austin, founder of The Third Wave and the Psychedelic Coaching Institute.

    We dive deep into microdosing psychedelics, intentional use for peak performance, and the rise of psychedelic coaching as a professional path. Paul shares insights from his book Mastering Microdosing, his vision for conscious entrepreneurship, and how psychedelics are reshaping the way we think about healing, creativity, and human potential.

    If you’re curious about LSD or psilocybin microdosing, psychedelic integration, or building a career in the psychedelic space, this episode is packed with actionable takeaways and inspiring perspectives.

    🔑 Key Topics & Takeaways:

    • How Paul F. Austin became a pioneer in the psychedelic space
    • The science and practice of microdosing for focus and creativity
    • Why psychedelic coaching is the next frontier in mental health and personal growth
    • Entrepreneurship and psychedelics: Lessons from building The Third Wave
    • Best practices for safe, intentional psychedelic use
    • Where the psychedelic movement is headed in the next 5–10 years

    ⏱️ Chapters:
    0:00 – Welcome to Divergent States with 3L1T3 & Bryan
    2:15 – Introducing Paul F. Austin & The Third Wave
    5:30 – How Paul discovered psychedelics and microdosing
    10:42 – The benefits of microdosing for focus, creativity & emotional balance
    18:20 – Psychedelic coaching: What it is and why it’s growing
    27:55 – Lessons from building The Third Wave & conscious entrepreneurship
    36:10 – Integration, safety, and intentional psychedelic use
    44:15 – The future of psychedelics, careers, and community
    52:30 – Closing thoughts & how to connect with Paul

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    1 hr 10 min
  • Amber Capone: The Psychedelics Saving Veterans from PTSD

    Amber Capone, co-founder and CEO of Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS), shares the powerful story of how psychedelic therapy - starting with Ibogaine - helped her husband, Navy SEAL Marcus Capone, recover from PTSD and TBI when traditional care failed.

    We dive into the science and controversy behind Ibogaine, the limits of VA mental health care, and how VETS is paving the way for safe access to psychedelics like MDMA, psilocybin, and ketamine for veterans in need.

    Key Points:

    • Amber’s leap from military spouse to CEO of VETS
    • Ibogaine’s transformative potential for PTSD and TBI
    • Risks and rewards of seeking psychedelic treatment abroad
    • Bipartisan momentum behind veteran psychedelic initiatives
    • Why careful vetting, integration, and support are critical

    🎧 Listen to hear how psychedelics are changing lives—and the future of trauma care.

    Chapter Markers:

    • 00:00 – Introduction & why Amber’s story matters
    • 05:56 – What was happening behind the scenes at home
    • 07:57 – The struggle after service: Marcus’ decline
    • 10:59 – Turning point: discovering Ibogaine
    • 14:57 – What changed after treatment
    • 20:20 – Starting VETS to help other families
    • 25:06 – Not just Ibogaine: the expanded toolbox
    • 31:21 – Addressing TBI and polytrauma
    • 35:43 – The importance of screening, context, and preparation
    • 41:46 – VETS’ evolving role in advocacy and support
    • 45:16 – Bipartisan support and shifting cultural norms
    • 51:54 – What “success” really means for healing veterans
    • 57:57 – Where to learn more and get involved

    Send us Fan Mail

    Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

    Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

    Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

    FiresideProject.org

    Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE


    Zendo Project
    Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

    Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

    Support the show

    Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  


    https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

    1 hr 17 min

About Divergent States

From the publisher's feed

Divergent States cuts through psychedelic hype with grounded, curious conversations about what these substances actually do.


Hosted by 3L1T3, founder of r/Psychonaut, the world’s…

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