Divergent States

What happens when the most hunted man in psychedelic history walks free and joins us for a conversation?

In this deeply reflective episode of Divergent States, I sit down with William Leonard Pickard: chemist, philosopher, author of The Rose of Paracelsus, and the man once called the “Acid King.” After decades behind bars, Pickard returns with revelations about time, memory, suffering, redemption, and the spiritual cost of psychedelic pursuit.

We discuss the rise and fall of the most infamous LSD lab in history, Pickard's views on Ibogaine and modern psychedelic commercialization, and how prison reshaped his consciousness. He speaks of literature, inner stillness, shadow organizations, and the unfathomable lessons buried in the folds of silence.

A mythic guest, a poetic mind, and perhaps the most important voice in the psychedelic space today.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• The "Acid King" Speaks: For the first time in-depth post-supervision, Leonard Pickard reflects on his time at the center of what authorities called the largest LSD operation in history, and what he believes was really happening behind the scenes.
• Prison as a Psychedelic Experience: Pickard describes incarceration not as a void, but as a radically altered state, where time dilates, silence becomes sacred, and the mind either breaks or transcends.
• Ibogaine, Compassion, and the Future: He voices strong views on the therapeutic use of Ibogaine, its dangers when misused, and its misunderstood spiritual potential.
• The Rose of Paracelsus as Code: More than a memoir, Pickard hints that The Rose is layered with veiled truths and archetypes meant for those “with ears to hear”, especially those seeking refuge from commercialized psychedelia.
• The Invisible Networks: He suggests there are forces: academic, clandestine, spiritual, that have shaped and continue to shape psychedelic culture in ways the mainstream never sees.
• Redemption Through Stillness: Pickard doesn't romanticize his past. Instead, he presents a philosophy of quiet redemption, where introspection, myth, and suffering converge into what he calls “the sacred cost.”
• Warnings to the Psychedelic Industry: He offers a cautionary tale to today’s entrepreneurs and enthusiasts: be wary of glamorizing chemical mysticism, and remember that true wisdom comes not from flash, but from depth.

00:00 – Introduction: The Acid King Returns

3:06 – From Secrecy to Spotlight

06:00 – Psychedelic Culture: Then and Now

10:53 – Ibogaine and Healing Work

12:44 – On Commercialization and Ceremony

16:46 – What About the Sacred?

19:46 – Medicalization vs. Freedom

24:53 – What They Never Ask

26:22 – Second Life Reflections

33:16 – What Prison Taught Me

38:15 – Ergot Wine and LSD Myths

43:01 – Machine Elves and Other Planes

44:13 – Star Trek and the Pickard Rumor

45:07 – Outro and Patreon Preview

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In this episode, 3L1T3 sits down with Dr. Anne Wagner, clinical psychologist and founder of Remedy, whose research pushes MDMA therapy beyond the individual — into the space between two people. We explore what happens when couples facing PTSD enter treatment together, why trauma rarely belongs to just one partner, and whether psychedelic medicine can transform relational patterns where traditional therapy fails.

We also examine the ethical and emotional risks of dyadic MDMA therapy: consent, power dynamics, memory, boundaries, and what happens when only one partner improves. Is this the future of trauma care — or a dangerous leap?

This conversation challenges the standard medical model, questions the limits of psychedelic therapy, and asks whether healing sometimes requires more than one nervous system.

✅ Key Points / Topics

• Why relationship trauma isn’t just “one person’s PTSD”
• How MDMA-assisted therapy is being adapted for couples
• The science behind “dyadic healing”
• What happens when both partners dose — together
• How MDMA opens emotional flexibility + secure bonding
• Core risks: power imbalance, coercion, storytelling shifts
• Ethical challenges in couples psychedelic work
• Is relational MDMA therapy scalable?
• Why some couples shouldn’t take MDMA together
• What traditional therapy gets wrong about trauma
• “The Power of Two” — healing via the relationship itself
• Case outcomes — surprising results
• Where research goes from here

🎧 Plus: updates from Psychedelic Science 2025, upcoming guests like Leonard Pickard and Reggie Watts, and why the future of therapy might come in pairs.

⏱️ Chapters:

00:00 – Intro & Conference Check-In
 04:22 – Meet Dr. Anne Wagner
 04:38 – Misunderstandings About MDMA Therapy
 07:13 – Empathy and Connection on MDMA
 09:05 – Pilot Study Results from MDMA + CBCT
 14:08 – Unexpected Dyadic Challenges
 16:31 – Why Couples Therapy vs Solo MDMA Work
 20:09 – Shifting Toward CPT + MDMA
 24:18 – Preview of Anne’s Panels at PS25
 28:57 – Defining Integration for Couples
 32:35 – Will Dyadic Integration Become Its Own Field?
 34:52 – Power Dynamics, Communication & Conflict on MDMA
 37:22 – MDMA, Neurodivergence, and CPTSD
 40:38 – Future of MDMA in General Relationship Work
 42:13 – Ethical Guardrails for Psychedelic Couples Therapy
 44:50 – Risks of Untrained Psychedelic Facilitators
 45:44 – Training Models for Dyadic Psychedelic Therapists
 47:20 – Access, Regulation & Stigma Barriers
 49:20 – Anne’s Origin Story: Psychedelics, Trauma & Relationships
 51:23 – Most Unexpected Lesson from the Work
 53:09 – How to Connect with Remedy Centre
 54:02 – Final Thoughts & Psychedelic Science Plans
 59:09 – Outro: PTSD Breakthroughs & Upcoming Guests

Music by Flintwick

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A former U.S. Senator says the federal government is preparing to fast-track psychedelic medicines, especially for veterans with TBI, PTSD, addiction, and treatment-resistant depression.

In this conversation, Kyrsten Sinema explains why the current administration is unusually aligned behind plant-based therapies, how Ibogaine and MDMA could move through the FDA faster than expected, and why small researchers, not Big Pharma, may end up shaping the field.

We dig into:

• Ibogaine’s impact on Special Forces veterans
• Why bipartisan support is real and why it’s strange
• What “FDA fast-track” actually means
• The fight to secure Medicaid/Medicare + VA coverage
• How cost + access could shift once CMS approves care
• The threat of large companies burying breakthroughs
• Why trauma + TBI may define the next decade of medicine

Sinema isn’t claiming everything is solved.

She argues there’s a rare window — and it could close.

Whether you’re hopeful or skeptical, you’ll walk away with a clearer view of the policy machinery behind psychedelic medicine.

⏱️ Chapters:

00:00 – Intro: Politics, Power, and Psychedelics
 01:41 – Why Interview Sinema? Pushback & Intentions
 02:21 – First Sponsor Tease & PS25 Plans
 03:56 – Sinema Joins the Interview
 04:18 – How Ibogaine Changed Her Perspective
 06:49 – Senate Colleagues' Reactions
 07:44 – Policy Progress & Bipartisan Allies
 09:43 – Pharma Capture & Psychedelic Industry Risks
 12:02 – Can Psychedelics Avoid Biotech Monopoly?
 13:40 – Cost, Access, and Equity Concerns
 14:44 – Ensuring Access for the Most Vulnerable
 15:56 – State vs. Federal Models
 17:00 – Federal Role in Decriminalization & Reform
 17:20 – Regrets or Missed Legislative Opportunities?
 18:43 – Sinema’s Continued Involvement
 20:06 – Political Alignment vs. Policy Goals
 20:17 – Restoring Trust in Institutions
 21:55 – Five-Year Outlook for Psychedelic Medicine
 23:10 – Final Reflections & Outro
 23:41 – Bonus: Sinema on Psychedelic Science 2025 Panels
 25:17 – Collaboration with VETS Foundation
 25:53 – Closing Thanks & Conference Plans
 28:49 – Outro Recap & Reflections
 31:19 – Sponsors, Shulgin Legacy, and Fireside Project
 32:10 – Next Episode Tease: Dr. Anne Wagner

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This week, we sit down with Kevin Cranford, Communications Officer at MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), to talk about the upcoming Psychedelic Science 2025 conference — what’s new, what’s different, and why it’s shaping up to be more than just another gathering. From navigating hype vs. science to MAPS’ comms strategy, Kevin shares how the org is threading the needle between community storytelling, rigorous research, and avoiding another "Wellness Industrial Complex" meltdown.

We dig into questions around affordability, integration, cross-aisle politics, harm reduction, and even Oprah's looming presence. It's a candid, funny, and thoughtful look at where the movement is headed — and how not to lose the soul of psychedelics in the process.

Also in this episode: Rainbow Gatherings, EDM afterparties, psychedelic pickup lines, and how to make ketamine uncool.

Key Takeaways

• MAPS is prioritizing integration over size for PS25, aiming for intentional connections rather than sheer numbers.
• The future of psychedelics lies in dialogue, not dogma — MAPS welcomes skeptics, clinicians, artists, and policy-makers under the same roof.
• Storytelling beats data alone — personal narratives help bring complex psychedelic science to wider audiences.
• MAPS consciously avoids hype by deferring to the science and resisting exaggerated claims.
• Access and affordability are still big questions — MAPS is actively seeking insurance and donation pathways to reduce sticker shock for marginalized communities.
• There’s tension in the movement between spiritual influencers and clinical research — and MAPS isn’t shying away from those debates.
• The goal is to make psychedelics boring. That’s how you mainstream a revolution.

 Chapter Markers

00:00 Introduction and Conference Overview
03:14 Psychedelic Science 2025: A Cultural Gathering
06:05 Target Audience and Conference Experience
09:01 Balancing Science and Experience
11:56 Community Dynamics and Open Dialogue
14:56 Storytelling in Psychedelic Advocacy
18:04 Addressing Criticism and Ensuring Access
20:55 Future of Psychedelic Research and Regulation
27:25 Curating Online Communities for Quality Engagement
29:03 Learning from Past Mistakes in Psychedelic Movements
30:40 Bridging Political Divides in Psychedelic Advocacy
31:52 The Importance of Personal Stories in Psychedelic Healing
33:44 Exploring the Deep Space Experience at PS25
35:07 Innovative Ideas for Future Psychedelic Conferences
36:53 The Impact of Celebrity Endorsements on Psychedelic Culture
39:52 Making Psychedelics Boring for Future Generations
40:29 Reflections on the Psychedelic Community and Its Growth

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In this powerful new episode of Divergent States, your hosts 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Tom Feegel—CEO and Co-Founder of Beond, a pioneering Ibogaine clinic based in Mexico, to discuss the unfiltered realities of healing, addiction recovery, and the evolving landscape of psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Tom brings two decades of sobriety, a past life in global brand marketing, and deep experience navigating both the light and shadow of the psychedelic resurgence. This isn’t a conversation full of buzzwords: it’s a grounded, honest exploration of what actually helps people come back from the brink.

Together, we unpack what Ibogaine is, why it has a reputation for treating opioid addiction where other modalities fall short, and how the Beond model emphasizes safety, preparation, and integration over hype. Tom also shares stories from the frontlines: clients who arrive on death’s doorstep and walk away with not just sobriety, but a new story for themselves.

This episode dives into some hard but necessary questions:

•     Why do traditional Western rehab models have such a low success rate?
•     What does it mean to center human dignity in a treatment model?
•     How can clinics scale without becoming exploitative?
•     What role do communities like Reddit and independent media play in this movement?

Whether you're a harm reduction advocate, a skeptic, or just curious about where psychedelics are headed, this conversation challenges assumptions and offers a rare window into the operational and ethical complexities of real-world healing work.

Big thanks to our guest Tom Feegel for showing up with honesty, experience, and insight—and for the vital work he’s doing at Beond Ibogaine Clinic.
https://beondibogaine.com/
Appreciation to all our listeners, supporters, and community members who keep Divergent States growing with every episode.

Shoutout to our co-host Bryan for always bringing grounded, thoughtful perspective - and to you, for being part of this movement.

🎶 Music Credit

Original music by Dyl👽Alien - alien frequencies for earthbound minds.
Check out more of Dyl👽Alien’s work wherever interdimensional audio is transmitted.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Overview of the Podcast
03:10 Tom Fiegel's Personal Journey and the Founding of Beyond Ibogaine
18:40 The Role of Community and Support in Healing
22:29 Challenging the Stigma of Asking for Help
24:04 The Importance of Self-Forgiveness and Growth
28:31 Redefining Healing and the Role of Medicine
28:58 Healing Through Vision: Moving Beyond the Past
32:13 The Role of Ibogaine: A Natural Healing Tool
36:05 The Journey to Treatment: What to Expect
45:26 The Ibogaine Experience: A Transformative Process

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What does it mean to be a responsible psychonaut?

In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down again with Valerie Beltran, licensed therapist, harm reduction expert, and educator with the Zendo Project, to unpack 7 core principles for navigating psychedelic states with intention, safety, and compassion.

We break down everything from testing your stash to dismantling your ego, and talk about how these powerful tools can help us grow: not just as individuals, but as a culture.

🔑 Topics we cover include:

• Harm reduction, substance testing, and staying safe
• What makes a psychonaut different from a recreational user
• Ego dissolution vs. ego inflation in the psychedelic space
• The beauty of Zendo-style peer support
• Psychedelic diversity, inclusion, and ethical use
• The soul quadrant: psychedelics as a call to community action
• Integration as an everyday spiritual practice
• Why set, setting, and intention still matter more than hype

Valerie brings grounded wisdom and therapeutic insight, while 3L1T3 and Bryan keep it real with stories, skepticism, and a few laughs about LSD philosophy, festival weirdness, and Rainbow drum circles.

🧠 This is a great starting point for new explorers and a reminder to seasoned trippers that we all need to check our egos at the door sometimes.

🎧 Music by Flintwick
 🪬 Support the show + get the bonus after-show with Valerie at patreon.com/divergentstates
🎤 Email: [email protected]

#Psychedelics #Psychonaut #Integration #ZendoProject #DivergentStates #PsychedelicTherapy #SetAndSetting #HarmReduction #MAPS #EgoDeath

00:00:00 - Introduction
00:00:18 - Valerie Beltran’s Background
00:01:37 - Updates from the Zendo Project
00:02:24 - Psychedelic Legalization News
00:03:35 - Psychedelic Science 25 Conference
00:05:19 - The Seven Psychonaut Principles
00:05:50 - Principle 1: Harm Reduction & Personal Safety
00:08:42 - Preparation (Set & Setting)
00:14:21 - Principle 2: Do No Harm to Others
00:16:07 - Principle 3: Community & Connection
00:21:36 - Principle 4: Diversity & Inclusion
00:25:59 - Principle 5: Ego Awareness
00:31:18 - Principle 6: Integration & Reflection
00:38:18 - Princliple 7: Advocacy & Social Justice
00:44:47 - Closing Remarks

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Zendo Project
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Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  

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In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Alli Schaper, CEO of Supermush and co-founder of the Microdosing Collective, to explore the evolving world of functional and psychedelic mushrooms. Alli shares her journey into microdosing advocacy, the challenges of navigating the gray market for psychedelics, and the urgent push for policy reform to ensure safe, legal access.

We dive into the science behind microdosing, its profound benefits for mental health, creativity, and even athletic performance, and discuss why current regulations often overlook this powerful tool. Alli opens up about how psychedelics helped her family process grief and why storytelling is key to destigmatizing these substances. The conversation also highlights the risks of unregulated products (like gas station "shrooms"), the importance of community-driven advocacy, and the potential for cultural momentum to shape smarter policies.

With psychedelic mushrooms gaining mainstream attention, from wellness brands to underground markets, we ask: Are we "legalizing the whole bottle of wine before the sip"? Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on the future of microdosing, the role of functional fungi in daily health, and how everyday individuals can help drive this movement forward.

Music by DylAlien.

Takeaways

• Mushrooms can have a profound impact on physical and mental health.
• Microdosing can help maintain mental health and prevent burnout.
• Psychedelics can be valuable tools for processing grief.
• There is a cultural gap in understanding and accepting death.
• Microdosing is often misunderstood and misrepresented in popular culture.
• Functional mushrooms offer various health benefits beyond nutrition.
• Community and intentional gatherings are essential for wellness.
• Advocacy for microdosing is crucial for policy changes.
• The definition of a microdose is often misinterpreted.
• The Microdosing Collective aims to represent and support microdosers. There is a need for a legal safe pathway for microdosing.
• Education and research are crucial for microdosing advocacy.
• Community involvement enhances the impact of policy reform.
• The psychedelic gray market poses risks and opportunities.

https://www.microdosingcollective.org/

https://supermush.com

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Psychedelic Science 25
02:53 Ali Schaper's Journey into Microdosing
06:08 Balancing Entrepreneurship and Advocacy
09:00 Personal Experiences with Grief and Psychedelics
12:01 The Intersection of Wellness and Mortality
15:05 Microdosing Collective and Its Goals
17:48 Functional Mushrooms vs. Psychedelic Microdosing
21:01 Benefits of Functional Mushrooms
23:57 Debunking Myths about Microdosing
28:45 Legal Pathways for Microdosing
30:12 Challenges in Microdosing Policy
32:05 Education and Community Engagement
34:52 The Role of Everyday Psychonauts
36:54 Understanding the Psychedelic Gray Market
39:47 Policy Adjustments for Safe Microdosing
41:25 Community-Driven Ethos in Regulation
43:01 Cultural Momentum and Storytelling
45:41 The Renaissance of Psychedelics
47:42 Collaborations and Community Initiatives
49:01 Supporting the Movement

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Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

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FiresideProject.org

Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE

Zendo Project
Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

In this deeply personal and eye-opening episode, we sit down with filmmaker JR Sawyers, the mind behind the indie psychedelic drama A Trip Elsewhere. What begins as a conversation about a film turns into a powerful exploration of transformation, healing, and consciousness.

JR opens up about the psychedelic retreat that changed his life, the emotional weight of isolation during the pandemic, and how he turned those experiences into cinematic storytelling. We dive into the emotional architecture of A Trip Elsewhere, the science and stigma of psychedelics, and how visuals can speak to the soul when words fall short.

From ego death to sacred geometry, from heartbreak to healing—this episode is as introspective and surreal as the film itself. Whether you’re curious about psychedelics, passionate about indie film, or just looking for a conversation with real heart, this one is not to be missed.

🎬 A Trip Elsewhere is streaming now on Amazon Prime, Tubi, Apple TV, and the Roku Channel.

Takeaways

• J.R. Sawyers is an independent filmmaker inspired by introspective films.
• His film explores the therapeutic effects of psychedelics.
• Sawyers experienced a transformative retreat that influenced his filmmaking.
• The film's visuals aim to capture the essence of psychedelic experiences.
• Character development reflects different emotional struggles and transformations.
• The future of psychedelics in therapy looks promising with increasing acceptance.
• Sawyers drew inspiration from various books and films to shape his narrative. Actors appreciated the character journeys in the film.
• Filmmaking was a way to relive the retreat experience.
• Setting and guidance are crucial for psychedelic experiences.
• Sawyers is working on a horror film about a possessed psychiatrist.
• The film addresses the silent pandemic of mental health issues.
• Psychedelics can help build empathy in a disconnected world.
• Letting go is essential during psychedelic experiences.
• He has never had a bad trip, highlighting the need for guidance.

Again, thank you to everyone who is supporting on Patreon, all of the music entries (DylAlien, Flintwich, and Future Boogz), everyone who has helped with scheduling and booking, and last but not least, r/psychonaut.

 00:00 – Intro & Guest Welcome
 02:00 – Inspirations & Origins
 04:00 – First Psychedelic Retreat Experience
 07:00 – Translating Psychedelics to Film
10:30 – The Visual & Emotional Grammar of A Trip Elsewhere
14:00 – Character Arcs & Psychological Themes
18:00 – Real-Life Moments That Made the Film
21:00 – Therapeutic Psychedelics: Real Science, Real Stories
25:00 – Set, Setting, and Integration
30:00 – Viewer Reactions, Misconceptions & Mother’s Transformation
34:00 – The Future of Psychedelics in Film and Medicine
37:00 – Behind the Scenes: Budget, Casting & Visual Storytelling
41:00 – New Projects & Final Reflections
44:00 – Advice for Psychedelic Newcomers
47:00 – Outro & Where to Watch A Trip Elsewhere

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Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

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FiresideProject.org

Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE

Zendo Project
Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod

In this powerful episode of Divergent States, we’re joined by Valerie Beltran and Chelsea Rose-Pires of the Zendo Project- an organization redefining harm reduction and compassionate care at festivals, events, and beyond.

We explore how the Zendo Project began as a MAPS initiative and evolved into its own nonprofit dedicated to supporting people through difficult psychedelic experiences and emotional crises, not with judgment or clinical detachment, but with radical empathy and peer support.

From creating safe spaces at Burning Man to launching training programs for crisis responders, Valerie and Chelsea offer insight into how the Zendo Project is transforming both event culture and the broader conversation around mental health, community care, and psychedelics.

Whether you’ve had a challenging trip, want to support others through non-ordinary states, or are just curious about what real-world harm reduction looks like, this is an episode you don’t want to miss.

🧘‍♀️ Learn how just being present can change lives.
🧠 Discover why “sitting, not guiding” is a revolutionary principle.
💬 And find out how you can get involved, support their mission, or even join them in the field.

✨ “You don’t have to be altered to walk into the Zendo. You just have to be human.” – Valerie Beltran

🔗 Learn more or get involved: zendoproject.org
💚 Donate. Volunteer. Sit with someone. It matters.

Forgot to mention on the episode, but big thanks to Future Boogz for letting us feature their track on this episode! Ach for the art, Brad for the help, and all of the Patreon Supporters! 

All content in Ask Me Anything sessions are for educational purposes only. Zendo Project does not provide any legal, medical or mental health advice. Consult with a lawyer, doctor, or mental health therapist before making any significant decisions for your own situation. Any references to third party websites or service providers are made without any warranties, express or implied. All participants should conduct their own due diligence on any third party websites or professionals before engaging in any conduct. Zendo Project does not encourage or facilitate any illegal conduct.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Zendo Project and Festival Collaboration
04:06 Understanding the Zendo Project's Mission and History
10:27 The Role of Outreach and Community Support
14:46 Experiencing a Zendo Session: What to Expect
17:56 Collaboration with Medical Services and Event Producers
21:11 Challenges in Harm Reduction Awareness
23:57 Exciting New Partnerships and Initiatives
27:39 Success Stories and Impact of the Zendo Project
32:10 The Impact of Zendo Project
34:06 Getting Involved: Training and Community
36:13 Education and Outreach in Psychedelic Spaces
39:06 Navigating Adverse Experiences
42:45 Challenges in Providing Services
44:01 Future Vision and Growth of Zendo Project
48:10 Inclusivity and Accessibility in Support Services
52:08 Integration After Experiences
54:57 How to Support Zendo Project

Send us Fan Mail

Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly.

Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

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In this episode of Divergent States, we talk with Dylalien: psychedelic DJ, producer, schoolteacher, and longtime organizer of Goa Gil’s legendary all-night, open-air ritual dance parties. You’ve heard his music on this podcast, but in this conversation, we go deep on what it means to create and participate in psychedelic music culture at its most raw, weird, and transformative.

Together, we explore:

• The life and legacy of Goa Gil, trance music’s spiritual godfather
• The influence of Hindu mysticism and Shiva archetypes in psychedelic culture
• The cosmic giggle: what happens when you dance all night and see the joke behind the universe
• DJing while tripping, playing to the sunrise, and accessing “wizard vision”
• How sound, sync, and group dance create stacked synchronicities
• Why trance is a tool, music is a medicine, and exhaustion is a drug
• The evolution of the underground, from vinyl and anonymity to phones and algorithms
• Being a high school teacher with a secret psychedelic life (“Did you just say that out loud?”)
• Pranksters, dosed swimming pools, and the chaos magic of the California scene
• How a late-in-life awakening led him to start releasing music, after decades in the shadows

We also talk about how psychedelic states can permanently shift your view of reality—how even sobriety feels different once you've danced with the universe. Dylalien reflects on how psychedelics pushed him to go vegan, redefined his ideas about spirituality, and reminded him again and again: “I don’t know anything. And that’s OK.”

This episode blends stories, insight, laughter, and nostalgia with the kind of wisdom that only comes from living decades in a counterculture groove. Whether you’re a musician, a tripper, a Deadhead, or just someone who’s felt the beat pull them into something bigger—you’ll feel at home here.

🎧 Music by Dylalien
🔗 Learn more about Goa Gil’s legacy and psychedelic trance culture
🧠 Support the show: patreon.com/divergentstates
🎤 Want to be on the podcast? Hit us up on Reddit, Instagram, or TikTok.

#Psytrance #GoaGil #PsychedelicMusic #CosmicGiggle #Psychedelics #Deadhead #DivergentStates #Pranksters #TerrenceMcKenna #DJCulture #TranceDance #PsychedelicExperience

Big thank you Bryan, Dylalien, Flintwick, Ach, and Brad of Integration Communications!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to DylAlien and Goa Gil
02:46 The Impact of Goa Gil on Electronic Music
05:58 The Cosmic Giggle and Psychedelic Experiences
08:58 The Evolution of Music and Technology
11:58 The Role of Music in Trance and Connection
15:45 The Changing Landscape of Music Festivals
18:03 Teaching and Navigating Youth Culture
21:05 The Joy of Musical Collaboration
24:05 The Therapeutic Power of Music and Psychedelics
27:59 Exploring the Power of Music and Drumming
34:19 The Journey into Music and Creativity
37:24 Psychedelics and Reality: A New Perspective
49:57 Microdosing: A Therapeutic Alternative
52:55 Building a Community Through Psychedelics

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Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture.

Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/

FiresideProject.org

Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE

Zendo Project
Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the show

Special Thanks to our Macrodosers, Super D and Mike, and our Thumbprint Tier member, Angie on Patreon!  

https://linktr.ee/3L1T3Mod