This episode is going to be a deep dive into extended-state dimethyltryptamine, otherwise known as DMTx.

Our guests for this episode are Hayley Mann and Kevin Thorbahn, who run Dream Mind Labs one of only a handful of places in the world where DMTx is available outside of clinical trials.

They are on the show to talk about:

🧬 What DMTx is and how it works 🌀 What people experience during a DMTx session 🙋 Why people choose to undergo the experience ⏱️ How long people stay in for 💡 What people get out of the experience 🏥 Where DMTx may fit in the growing psychedelic medical and personal use landscape ⚖️ The legal situation in Colorado that allows them to legally run Dream Mind Labs ⚠️ The dangers present in undergoing DMTx 👽 The nearly universal experience of encountering and communicating with entities or aliens 🔫 The "DMT laser thing" 🎵 The role of music and sound during a DMTx session 🤯 Some of the weirder things they have experienced as facilitators

This was a super interesting interview for me, and I found Haley and Kevin very easy and joyful to talk with. It was easily one of the most at-ease and "myself" I have felt in an interview in a long time, and I look forward to sharing it with you now.

Enjoy!

🌀 Website and Episode Show Notes

✉️ Connect with Dream Mind Labs

FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW ...

🤩 EPISODE SPONSOR

AMENTARA is a credible source of legal psychoactive plants and extracts, most notably, Amanita Muscaria mushrooms—the red mushroom with white spots that shows up in folklore, Christmas imagery, and old shamanic traditions.

Check them out at: https://www.jameswjesso.com/amentara

Use the promo code ATTM22 for 22% off your first order

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*** Huge thanks to my patrons on Patreon! In particular, my $23+ patrons; Andreas D, Alex F, and Eliz C With a special thanks to MP Society for their generous one-time donation.

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...

Episode Breakdown

• (00:00) Ad (Amentara)
• (00:36) Opening
• (04:46) Interview Begins
• (04:55) The legality of DMTx and other psychedelics in Colorado
• (11:04) DMTx, what it is and how it works
• (16:33) How long people stay in the DMT experience
• (18:00) The level of intensity people go into
• (20:27) How participants communicate their needs during their infusion
• (21:57) Dose complexities and time in peak dose
• (24:46) How Kevin and Haley got into providing DMTx
• (33:19) Why people chose to explore DMTx
• (39:33) Ad (Amentara)
• (41:26) Reported benefits from DMTx
• (46:50) Spontaneous healing through DMTx?
• (52:04) The "DMT Laser Thing"
• (57:25) The variety of experience
• (1:01:00) The use and presence of sound and music during a DTMx experience
• (1:05:47) No Glossolalia (yet)
• (1:07:19) The strange things that happen for the facilitators
• (1:13:41) Patreon thanks
• (1:16:01) The bio-medical risks of DTMx
• (1:22:50) The psychological risks of DMTx, short- and long-term
• (1:26:38) Potential future clinical uses of DMTx
• (1:29:24) Integration and aftercare protocols
• (1:31:46) Ongoing data collection and future research ideas
• (1:34:44) A wondering about weight-based dosing
• (1:36:57) Future hopes and concerns about DTMx
• (1:42:53) Follow-up links and contact details
• (1:44:44) Outro

Research Psychologist Jessica Corneille discusses the complex integration process that follows spontaneous spiritual experiences—particularly the disorientation, vocational tension, and identity shifts that can arise when a transformed worldview no longer aligns with one's work or social context.

The conversation explores the emergence of spiritual crisis during integration, the importance of non-hierarchical support spaces, and how connection, community, and spiritual literature (including reflections on Alan Watts) can help individuals rebuild a coherent sense of self and purpose after awakening.

...

This is a clip from 'Spontaneous Spiritual Awakenings: Qualities, Causes, and Consequences | Jessica Corneille ~ ATTMind Podcast 171"

FULL INTERVIEW

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Thomas Hatsis joins us for episode 205 to discuss his new book Psychedelic Injustice: How Identity Politics Poisons the Psychedelic Renaissance.

Together we discuss some pretty divisive topics: the distinction between social justice and critical social justice, how certain narratives are being imposed on the psychedelic movement, implicit bias research, decolonization rhetoric, the drug war's actual causes, and contested claims about psychedelic history.

This one might get spicy for you. Enjoy responsibly.

This episode was nearly taken down Find out why here

RELEVANT LINKS

• 🌀 Website and Episode Show Notes
• 📚 GET THE BOOK: Psychedelic Injustice: How Identity Politics Poisons the Psychedelic Renaissance
• 🤓 READ TOM's SUBSTACK: https://tomhatsis.substack.com/
• 🤳 FOLLOW TOM ON INSTAGRAM: @TOM.HATSIS
• 🎥 Check Tom Out On YouTube @TomHatsisTalk for his culture war content and @EntheoHistorian for his psychedelic history content

FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW

...

SUPPORT THE PODCAST

🥰 Support ATTMind and join the community on Patreon

🎧 Sub and Review on Apple Podcasts

🎧 Sub and Review on Spotify

👁 Watch and Subscribe on Youtube

*** Huge thanks to my patrons on Patreon! In particular, my $23+ patrons; Andreas D, Alex F, and Eliz C With a special thanks to Josh H for their generous one-time donation.

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• Telegram Channel: https://t.me/jameswjesso
• Integration Coaching: https://www.jameswjesso.com/jesso-private-skype-sessions/

...

Episode Breakdown

• (00:00) Opening
• (06:40) Interview Begins
• (07:32) Confronting The Imposition Of Controversy
• (10:10) The difference between Social Justice and Critical Social Justice
• (14:34) "The Narrative"
• (18:57) How "The Narrative" is being imposed up the psychedelic movement
• (25:57) What is the Psychedelic Renaissance such that Critical Social Justice is undermining it
• (34:46) the Critical Social Justice playbook is antithetical to the themes of psychedelic healing
• (36:23) Patreon Thanks
• (39:47) Why so hard, on the Left?
• (45:06) "Pro-Fa" ideological attacks in Psychedelia (Psymposia)
• (53:52) The "Theorists" and how they are compromising the psychedelic movement (Chacruna)
• (1:00:21) Discussing the realities and falsehoods of "implicit biases"
• (1:07:45) The Psychedelic Social Justice Warrior, well-meaning but misinformed
• (1:09:41) A quick discussion the the importance of quality citations
• (1:12:28) The Three Specific "Narratives" Undermining Psychedelia
• (1:13:09) The "Decolonize Narrative"
• (1:17:01) A quick aside considering "a different way of knowing"
• (1:17:50) Using inaccurate narratives about indigenous peoples to prop up the "decolonize narrative"
• (1:20:45) There was very little psychedelic use amongst indigenous people in North America
• (1:25:51) The "Racist Narrative", and how racism is not fuelling the drug war
• (1:32:08) Dr. Carl Hart and the fallacy of denouncing psychedelic exceptionalism
• (1:41:49) Oregon's Failed Drug Decriminalization
• (1:47:59) A short aside sharing anecdotes about video game addiction
• (1:50:30) The "Gender Narrative", the shield and the spear
• (1:55:52) The inaccurate portrayal of psychedelic gay conversion therapy
• (1:58:41) Concluding The Interview, Follow Up Links and Social
• (2:00:43) Follow Up Links and Socials
• (2:03:37) Outro

Dr. David Katz is a board-certified specialist in Preventive Medicine/Public Health.

He is on the show to talk about the paper is was author on, titled, "A multiscale inflammatory map: linking individual stress to societal dysfunction".

We talk about what stress and inflammation are, and the dynamics between them; how and why inflammation becomes chronic; how inflammation compromises perception and behaviour; how it can spread through a population like a contagion; how these spreading patterns of inflammation degrade our social systems, institutions, and leadership; how social media works as s supercharged networks for spreading inflammation; and what we can do about it, right here and now, starting within ourselves.

Enjoy.

🌀 Website and Episode Show Notes

FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW

...

SUPPORT THE PODCAST

🥰 Support ATTMind and join the community on Patreon

🎧 Sub and Review on Apple Podcasts

🎧 Sub and Review on Spotify

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*** Huge thanks to my patrons on Patreon! In particular, my $23+ patrons; Andreas D, Alex F, and Eliz C And to Dee G. for their generous one-time donation.

Other options

• Toss me a tip on PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/biz/fund?id=383635S3BKJVS
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• Telegram Channel: https://t.me/jameswjesso
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...

Episode Breakdown

• (00:00) Opening
• (06:31) Interview Begins
• (08:22) The limits of reductionism and the value of multidisciplinary collaboration
• (13:45) Inflammation, Stress, and the dynamic between them within the individual
• (24:59) The primitive value of relationships with non-human beings for our wellbeing
• (26:23) How and why inflammation between chronic
• (35:10) The brain as the master regulator of our response to stressors
• (46:28) The brain as a driver of inflammation
• (49:52) Correcting the degenerative cascade of poor sleep on mental and physical health through inflammatory processes
• (51:51) How inflammation spreads between people
• (55:46) Social media as a supercharged network for spreading inflammation
• (1:03:15) Patreon Thanks
• (1:05:39) How stress and inflammation can change a whole society
• (1:09:16) Stress as a virus, each of us could be the cure
• (1:13:24) How runaway feed forward processes of inflammation can degrade an entirely society, our society
• (1:23:07) What we can do about it, entering the upward spiral towards personal vitality
• (1:31:45) How choosing the cultivate our own wellbeing can positively effect others
• (1:34:15) A hopeful note to end off on
• (1:36:22) Follow up links
• (1:37:54) Outro

Psychedelic historian Tom Hatsis outlines why the "mushroom Santa hypothesis" is not based in any historical fact and why.

Happy Holidays!

...

This is a clip from 'Debunking The Mushroom Santa Hypothesis | Tom Hatsis ~ ATTMind Podcast 89"

FULL INTERVIEW

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Charley Wininger returns to Adventures Through The Mind to discuss How To Host An MDMA Group Roll

Our discussions starts with a quick general overview of MDMA before shifting into a thorough exploration of group rolls—what they are, what they can offer us individually and collectively, who to invite, who not to invite, where to do it, what to include, what to exclude, safety protocols, and just a whole number of things.

Enjoy!

🌀 Website and Episode Show Notes

✉️ Connect with Charley

📚 BUY CHARLEY'S BOOK: LISTENING TO ECSTACY

FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW

...

SUPPORT THE PODCAST

🥰 Support ATTMind and join the community on Patreon

🎧 Sub and Review on Apple Podcasts

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👁 Watch and Subscribe on Youtube

*** Huge thanks to my patrons on Patreon! In particular, my $23+ patrons; Andreas D, Alex F, and Eliz C

Other options

• Toss me a tip on PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/biz/fund?id=383635S3BKJVS
• Toss me a tip on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/jameswjesso
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• Telegram Channel: https://t.me/jameswjesso
• Integration Coaching: https://www.jameswjesso.com/jesso-private-skype-sessions/

...

Episode Breakdown

• (00:00) Opening
• (03:23) Patreon Thanks
• (06:23) Interview Begins
• (07:47) MDMA, a brief overview
• (11:38) How MDMA is Used, recreation and therapeutic
• (15:34) Group Rolls, explained
• (17:47) Charley's Protocol For Group Rolls
• (23:04) How a group roll is different from just a party
• (24:39) The value of group rolls to the individual and society
• (34:59) Who to invite and who NOT to invite
• (41:30) How many people to invite
• (43:44) Contingencies that help protect the "container" of the roll
• (46:53) Presence of sober sitters, why or why not?
• (52:03) First timers
• (55:47) Why a group roll is NOT a ceremony
• (58:37) Environmental conditions (settings)
• (1:03:26) What people should bring for themselves
• (1:05:51) Further safety protocols
• (1:10:34) Screening people for medical/pharmacological risks
• (1:12:58) How to handle people wandering off
• (1:13:37) The importance of an "opening statement" to the group, and what else to include
• (1:15:22) A short anecdote about a ketamine incident
• (1:17:11) Playing with silence during the roll
• (1:19:51) Things to do together during the roll, healing circle
• (1:23:41) Dosing and re-dosing considerations
• (1:30:12) Finding the group roll dosage "sweet spot" and why more isn't necessarily better
• (1:33:58) How and when to "close" the roll
• (1:39:42) Integration considerations
• (1:41:54) Follow up links and socials
• (1:43:42) Interview Addendum, One Pulse Global Rolls
• (1:48:00) Could rolling together impact the world?
• (1:50:32) Outro

Dr. Mikael Palner discusses how psilocybin microdosing alters synaptic plasticity in rats and how these brain changes align with shifts in stress resiliancy and compulsive behaviors. He then discusses how these data line up with emerging reports on low-dose psilocybin as helpful in cases of OCD, and hypothesizes a plausible biological basis.

...

This is a clip from 'Microdosing Psilocybin; Effects on Stress Resiliency and Compulsive Behaviours | Dr. Mikael Palner ~ ATTMind Podcast 194"

FULL INTERVIEW

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Author and psychotherapist Marc Aixalà is on the show to talk to us about psychedelic integration.

What You'll Learn About: 💡 -- What psychedelic integration actually is, what it offers, and why it matters ⏰ -- When and how to apply different integration practices over time 🤔 -- Common mistakes made in both practice and understanding of integration 🧩 -- Approaches to working with derealization, depersonalization, and difficult or traumatic psychedelic experiences 🌌 -- How to integrate experiences of the transcendental and transpersonal 👥 -- Key insights for practitioners, facilitators, and individuals navigating their own integration process.

Enjoy!

...

📚 Buy Marc's Book: Psychedelic Integration: Psychotherapy for Non-Ordinary States of Consciousness

🎓 ICEERS Psychedelic Integration Course: https://www.jameswjesso.com/iceersintegration Applications Close Dec 15, 2025

Be sure to use the promo code JESSO to get %15 off! (‼️ discount ACTIVATES on Nov. 17)

🌀 Website and Episode Show Notes

FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW

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SUPPORT THE PODCAST

🥰 Support ATTMind and join the community on Patreon

🎧 Sub and Review on Apple Podcasts

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👁 Watch and Subscribe on Youtube

*** Huge thanks to my patrons on Patreon! In particular, my $23+ patrons; Andreas D, Alex F, and Eliz C

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• Telegram Channel: https://t.me/jameswjesso
• Integration Coaching: https://www.jameswjesso.com/jesso-private-skype-sessions/

...

Episode Breakdown

• (00:00) Opening
• (05:18) ICEERS Integration Course
• (09:47) Interview Begins
• (10:52) What is ICEERS?
• (15:17) Marc's Experience in Psychedelic Integration
• (22:57) What is psychedelic integration?
• (29:32) Why psychedelic integration is different from psychotherapy
• (34:25) The interplay between integration and preparation
• (45:24) Patreon Thanks
• (48:39) Common Mistakes in Psychedelic Integration
• (53:48) How facilitators can compromise your integration through interpretation
• (59:58) We must be careful not to overly psychologize or spiritualize our interpretations of psychedelic experiences
• (1:01:56) Psychedelic Integration Practices and at what time point post-journey they are best done
• (1:07:54) Is it ever Too Late to integrate a psychedelic experience?
• (1:14:34) Essential integration practices after a bad trip or traumatic psychedelic experience
• (1:21:33) Tip for dealing with an ongoing depersonalization or derealization
• (1:27:24) Integration doesn't always mean changing how we live
• (1:29:38) Integrating "alien" or other worldly experiences
• (1:33:06) Integrating big "downloads"
• (1:38:16) How do we integrate our whole psychedelic experience, or is that even possible?
• (1:45:28) ICEERS Integration Training Course Explained
• (1:53:53) Outro

East Forest (Krishna-Trevor Oswalt) is a musician and documentary filmmaker exploring the intersection of music and psychedelic consciousness.

He joins us on this episode of Adventures Through The Mind to talk about what music really is and why it matters so much for our psychedelic journeys.

Enjoy

🌀 Website and Episode Show Notes

...

🍄 WATCH MUSIC FOR MUSHROOMS 👀

📚 East Forest 2025/26 tour and album links

• Tour: https://eastforest.org/tickets
• Lovingly (Album)
• Ram Dass (Album)

FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW

...

SUPPORT THE PODCAST

🥰 Support ATTMind and join the community on Patreon

🎧 Sub and Review on Apple Podcasts

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👁 Watch and Subscribe on Youtube

*** Huge thanks to my patrons on Patreon! In particular, my $23+ patrons; Andreas D, Alex F, and Eliz C

Other options

• Toss me a tip on PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/biz/fund?id=383635S3BKJVS
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• Telegram Channel: https://t.me/jameswjesso
• Integration Coaching: https://www.jameswjesso.com/jesso-private-skype-sessions/

...

Episode Breakdown

• (00:00) Opening
• (05:08) Interview begins
• (05:15) I am Loving Awareness, James' entry into East Forest
• (08:37) What is music?
• (11:22) Music as a lifeline
• (15:00) What makes the difference between "music" and "sound"
• (16:54) Beauty, music, and emotional richness
• (19:30) Humanity's lost its connection with music due to patterns of consumption over creation
• (28:14) The creative act of active listening
• (33:41) Music as a technology for psychedelic ceremony
• (37:21) Music in psychedelic space as a bridge to the non-dual for the growth of our souls
• (38:52) How psychedelics can worsen separation, ego, and division
• (42:06) Introducing Music for Mushrooms, film
• (45:50) What it feels like to be "the soundtrack" for psychedelic experiences
• (50:55) Why he started making music for mushroom experiences
• (58:40) Patreon thanks
• (1:02:49) The musician's experience when playing for a mushroom ceremony
• (1:09:15) The intelligence of the mushrooms
• (1:10:56) Psychedelics, the poly crisis, the constant background noise of dread
• (1:19:43) Reflecting on "the whole 2012 thing" in the context of AI technologies
• (1:21:35) Something is Coming
• (1:32:24) Mushroom lessons, say less
• (1:34:57) Hope and Concern for what's happening with Psychedelics globally
• (1:36:26) Music For Mushrooms, the documentary—what, and who, it's for
• (1:39:13) Outro

Ed Prideaux discusses the the phenomenon of "Psychedelic Flashbacks" and how they relate to Hallucinogen Perception Persisting Disorder, also known as as HPPD.

...

This is a clip from 'Hallucinogen Perception Persisting Disorder (HPPD) | Ed Prideaux ~ ATTMind Podcast 152

FULL INTERVIEW

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SUPPORT THE PODCAST

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• ▷ Sponsor: HARMONIC ARTS PLANT MEDICINE
  • Use the promo code JESSO for 15% off your First order

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