Long Now

Dmitry Orlov: Social Collapse Best Practices


Listen Later

### Managing social collapse
With vintage Russian black humor, Orlov described the social collapse he witnessed in Russia in the 1990s and spelled out its practical lessons for the American social collapse he sees as inevitable. The American economy in the 1990s described itself as "Goldilocks"--just the right size--when in fact is was "Tinkerbelle," and one day the clapping stops. As in Russia, the US made itself vulnerable to the decline of crude oil, a trade deficit, military over-reach, and financial over-reach.
Russians were able to muddle through the collapse by finding ways to manage 1) food, 2) shelter, 3) transportation, and 4) security.
Russian agriculture had long been ruined by collectivization, so people had developed personal kitchen gardens, accessible by public transit. The state felt a time-honored obligation to provide bread, and no one starved. (Orlov noted that women in Russia handled collapse pragmatically, putting on their garden gloves, whereas middle-aged men dissolved into lonely drunks.) Americans are good at gardening and could shift easily to raising their own food, perhaps adopting the Cuban practice of gardens in parking lots and on roofs and balconies.
As for shelter, Russians live in apartments from which they cannot be evicted. The buildings are heat-efficient, and the communities are close enough to protect themselves from the increase in crime. Americans, Orlov said, have yet to realize there is no lower limit to real estate value, nor that suburban homes are expensive to maintain and get to. He predicts flight, not to remote log cabins, but to dense urban living. Office buildings, he suggests, can easily be converted to apartments, and college campuses could make instant communities, with all that grass turned into pasture or gardens. There are already plenty of empty buildings in America; the cheapest way to get one is to offer to caretake it.
The rule with transportation, he said, is not to strand people in nonsurvivable places. Fuel will be expensive and hoarded. He noted that the most efficient of all vehicles is an old pickup fully loaded with people, driving slowly. He suggested that freight trains be required to provide a few empty boxcars for hoboes. Donkeys, he advised, provide reliable transport, and they dine as comfortably on the Wall Street Journal as they did on Pravda.
Security has to take into account that prisons will be emptied (by stages, preferably), overseas troops will be repatriated and released, and cops will go corrupt. You will have a surplus of mentally unstable people skilled with weapons. There will be crime waves and mafias, but you can rent a policeman, hire a soldier. Security becomes a matter of local collaboration. When the formal legal structure breaks down, adaptive improvisation can be pretty efficient.
By way of readiness, Orlov urges all to prepare for life without a job, with near-zero burn rate. It takes practice to learn how to be poor well. Those who are already poor have an advantage.
...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

Long NowBy The Long Now Foundation

  • 4.6
  • 4.6
  • 4.6
  • 4.6
  • 4.6

4.6

227 ratings


More shows like Long Now

View all
The New Yorker Radio Hour by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

The New Yorker Radio Hour

6,806 Listeners

Open to Debate by Open to Debate

Open to Debate

2,165 Listeners

Intelligence Squared by Intelligence Squared

Intelligence Squared

775 Listeners

Making Sense with Sam Harris by Sam Harris

Making Sense with Sam Harris

26,313 Listeners

Conversations with Tyler by Mercatus Center at George Mason University

Conversations with Tyler

2,460 Listeners

To The Best Of Our Knowledge by Wisconsin Public Radio

To The Best Of Our Knowledge

919 Listeners

Open Source with Christopher Lydon by Christopher Lydon

Open Source with Christopher Lydon

1,028 Listeners

Philosophy For Our Times by IAI

Philosophy For Our Times

317 Listeners

The Good Fight by Yascha Mounk

The Good Fight

903 Listeners

Long Now: Conversations at The Interval by The Long Now Foundation

Long Now: Conversations at The Interval

46 Listeners

The Michael Shermer Show by Michael Shermer

The Michael Shermer Show

937 Listeners

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas by Sean Carroll | Wondery

Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

4,179 Listeners

Your Undivided Attention by The Center for Humane Technology, Tristan Harris, Daniel Barcay and Aza Raskin

Your Undivided Attention

1,610 Listeners

Dwarkesh Podcast by Dwarkesh Patel

Dwarkesh Podcast

531 Listeners

The Ezra Klein Show by New York Times Opinion

The Ezra Klein Show

16,145 Listeners

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens by Nate Hagens

The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens

418 Listeners