What would it be like to believe something strongly enough to get arrested for it 11 times, but then change your mind? This episode features James Ozden, a former leading member of Extinction Rebellion and Animal Rising - groups known for disruptive protests and non-violent civil disobedience advocating for climate justice and animal rights. We discuss James's journey from deep involvement in disruptive protest, to questioning its efficacy, and deciding to found a research organization to get to the bottom of what makes some social movements succeed and others fail.

Want more from James?

• Check out his blog, Understanding Social Change, on Substack
• Learn about the movement to fix factory farming on the podcast he hosts, called How I Learned to Love Shrimp

About the hosts:

Thom and Aidan left boring, stable careers in law and tech to found ⁠⁠⁠⁠FarmKind⁠⁠⁠⁠, a donation platform that helps people be a part of the solution to factory farming — regardless of their diet. While the podcast isn’t about animal welfare, it’s inspired by their daily experience grappling with a fundamental question: Why do people so rarely change their minds, even when confronted with compelling evidence? This curiosity drives their exploration of intellectual humility and the complex factors that enable (or prevent) meaningful belief change.

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