Dr. Doug Matzke, AI has metaphysical implications, but are the ones pushing it evil?

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[00:00:00] Speaker 1: I’m placing you under arrest for future murder Sara Marks [unclear 00:02]

[00:00:03] Speaker 2: The future can be seen.

[00:00:08] Alex Tsakiris: That’s a short clip from the now almost 20-year-old movie minority report which keeps popping up because it’s really uncanny how that sci-fi seems to be playing out in our role. I mean, there’s no doubt this movie is portraying kind of worst case strong AI scenario that we’re exploring in the last episode with a AI expert from Google. Andrew Smart. Of course, that movie starring Tom Cruise from the Scientology mind control club, and was directed by Steven Spielberg, who, if you’re into this stuff is known to screen ET movies for presidents and seems to be plugged into a lot of culture shaping movies. But this clip is particularly relevant to today’s interviews with the very excellent Dr. Doug Matzke. Doug, if you remember last time, he has a PhD in quantum computing. And he’s really smart about AI and all the rest of this stuff. And even though Doug, and I don’t see everything the same way, as you’ll hear, in this clip,

[00:01:10] Doug Matzke: I see a common theme from you about people abusing their technology and power. And so I think that’s part of your concern about the big companies who have control over many facets of our life, the Microsoft’s and the Googles. So the question is, how do we take any technology and not abuse it? And that’s a concern. I hear that’s a concern for you. And it’s a concern for me, too.

[00:01:35] Alex Tsakiris: That’s not my concern.

[00:01:36] Doug Matzke: Whether it’s a concern you’re interested in that.

[00:01:39] Alex Tsakiris: I think this is why evil matters question. Because Google is in the social engineering business, whether they like it or not. But the question is, are they fucking evil? Are the people behind the AI evil? that’s ultimately what we want to know. So even though we don’t agree on everything, I do think we sync up on the deeper philosophical and really, spiritual questions about how we should understand and relate to this AI thing, which is very, very real and is happening right now. It is not that far off from a minority report kind of situation. Lots to cover. Here’s my interview with Dr. Doug Matzke. Welcome to Skeptiko, where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers and their critics. I’m your host, Alex Tsakiris. And today, we welcome Dr. Doug Matzke, back to Skeptiko. Doug is the author of Deep Reality: Why Source Science May Be the Key to Understanding Human Potential. And the last time Doug was on, I learned so much both preparing for the interview. And then in the actual interview with Doug that I’ve been dying to get him back. And then last episode, I ran across and felt very fortunate to get an interview with an AI, artificial intelligence guy from Google named Andrew Smart. And I just posted that interview. And I sent it to Doug, I kind of sent him the book beforehand and said, “Hey, what do you think about this?” He gave me some really interesting feedback before. And then I sent him a pre-release copy afterwards. And I just think that that can kind of take us in some new places in terms of this incredible, incredible work that he’s done. So Doug, welcome back to Skeptiko. Thanks for coming on.