Tom Zinser’s clinical psychology practice took a turn when he discovered the difference between darkness and evil.

photo by: Skeptiko

[Movie clip 00:00:00 – 00:00:23]

Nobody plays a deal-making devil better than Al Pacino and no one plays an unsuspecting dupe better than Keanu Reeves. It’s from the movie, The Devil’s Advocate and it fits perfectly with today’s controversial and just incredibly amazing and for me, paradigm changing interview with Dr. Tom Zinser. 

Tom Zinser: As souls we have the choice, and evil does not run our life, evil does not have power over us. So as souls we do have that power to deal with evil, to stop it, to refuse it. And it’s one of the reasons I said that distinction between darkness and evil is so important. 

Alex Tsakiris: [00:01:09] So our natural state is to have likes and dislikes that inadvertently, not our fault, but it happens, we block that light in one way or another, and sometimes we connect with those blockages more than we connect with the light and it all becomes a confused state. What I hear you saying then is that we can begin talking about evil, darkness as just blockages of the light. That of course, you always have the power to remove those. It makes them a lot less scary. 

Tom Zinser: [00:01:43] And we do need that. We’ve grown up in our Western culture to be frightened of darkness and evil, to think of it as so powerful, to stay away from that topic for fear that it’s going to get us. People need to know it doesn’t have that power. 

Alex Tsakiris: [00:02:00] I hope this came through in the interview, is this idea of the contract, because that is not only a method of deception that seems to be in play, but it’s been enshrined in our culture through books, movies, as being, don’t make that contract with the devil, you could never break it. And what Gerod says, and you prove in your work is that, no, there’s no such contract, it’s null and void, it’s unenforceable. All we have to do is say, No, I choose to go to the light,” and it’s all over.

Tom Zinser: [00:02:33] That’s right. Yes. 

 

 

 

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Alex Tsakiris: Welcome to Skptiko where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers, thinkers, and their critics. I’m your host Alex Tsakiris and today we’re joined by Tom Zinser. 

In 1987 Dr. Tom Zinser was a clinical psychologist and hypnotherapists in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and like a lot of therapists, like a lot of people, helpers, Tom wanted to see his patients get better, but they weren’t, at least they weren’t getting better as quickly or as often as he felt they should. So, Tom, as he tells, it, was almost to the point of giving up. 

Then a part-time secretary in his office named Katherine came to him with a rather remarkable proposal that we’re going to hear about, and what followed was a 15-year collaboration that changed Tom’s practice, certainly changed the lives of hundreds and hundreds of his clients, and completely changed his worldview as well. 

Now, I’m not so sure what it did for his reputation as a clinical psychologist among his colleagues,