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Ed Hightower: From South Side Struggles to International Referee | A Success Story
?️ Dive into the extraordinary life of Ed Hightower on this heart-pounding episode of Circuit of Success Podcast! ? From humble beginnings in the South to the global stage as a former NCAA basketball referee, Ed shares his riveting journey with host Brett Gilliland. ? Uncover the secrets to Ed’s success as he emphasizes the crucial role of a solid value system and guardrails in staying focused and on track. Get the inside scoop on facing legendary coaches like Bobby Knight and Judd Heathcote, and the invaluable lessons learned by doing the right thing, even when it’s unpopular. Hear firsthand about his experiences representing the United States in international tournaments and the art of staying objective in high-stakes moments. ? Ed’s motivational insights extend beyond the court, urging young people to do the right thing when no one is watching and take ownership of mistakes. Don’t miss out on the incredible anecdotes, including Ed’s unforgettable night at the Final Four dinner in 1989, seated next to none other than the legendary Andy Kaufman! Join us for an inspiring conversation with a true game-changer. Ed Hightower’s story is a beacon of hard work, dedication, and resilience—packed with timeless lessons applicable to everyone. #EdHightower #NCAAReferee #CircuitOfSuccess
Full Youtube Episode
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Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host
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Brett Gilliland. And today, I’ve got Ed Hightower
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with me. Ed, how you doing? Oh, the
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pleasure is all mine, Brett. It’s good to
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be with you. It’s good to be with
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you. So,
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well, people that don’t know. You probably, everybody’s
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watching this knows who are. I mean, you’ve
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had a heck of a career. Well, I’ve
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been very fortunate. I’ve had a lot of
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support along the way, and,
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very, very blessed. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So former
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superintendent at Edwardsville Hightower school, nineteen years in
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Edwardsville, but forty years in education.
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Forty years in education. In,
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nineteen years, a superintendent update at Whisfield School
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District. I went there in nineteen ninety Gilliland
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retired.
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In two thousand fifteen. So Amazing. In, thirty
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six years, is an NCAA referee? Thirty six
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years as an NC Yagate referee, thirty three
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years in the Big 10:12
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final fours, the World Games. Man,
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representative of the United States at the World
00:01:07.000 –> 00:01:08.000
Games in Bonazaris,
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a representative of the United States at the
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Good World Games in, Saint Petersburg so I
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was very, very fortunate. That’s incredible. Incredible. I
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remember you in my, fighting a Lineite days
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when I was, you know, younger man and
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and watch to my my flying line item,
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which we I wanna talk about that later
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if that’s alright. So but if you can,
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Ed, give us a little lay of the
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lay in the story. You don’t just wake
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up and spend forty years and get your
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doctorate and, you know, have an amazing marriage
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of forty nine years, two daughters, NCAA AA,
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all the stuff that we just mentioned. But
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what’s what’s some of that backstory? Some of
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your stories? Well, back story, you know, I’m
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just one of these,
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young individuals,
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very fortunate.
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I grew up in the south.
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My mom and and,
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dad, divorced when I was twelve years old.
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I’m the second of eight Children, I never
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thought that, I would complete,
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even a high school education when I was
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in the south.
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Things were tough. My mom
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moved,
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to Alton, Illinois in nineteen,
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sixty six.
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And,
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she always made education a priority,
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education church, given back to the community a
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priority.
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For all eight of us,
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siblings.
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Yeah. And, we were very fortunate. And from
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that point,
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played basketball,
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baseball at Alton High School,
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nineteen seventy. I graduated and went to s
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I u e on a basketball scholarship plate
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for the cougars. I know that. And started
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refereeing intramural basketballs with these poor kids,
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didn’t have any money, but, start refereeing intramural
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basketball,
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in nineteen seventy one for a dollar and
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twenty five cents a game. Think about that
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one for a moment. Man.
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And,
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I’d watch,
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you know, I I had no,
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relationship with officials when I when I played.
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But,
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you know, when you can,
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referee,
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the various fraternities,
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in college
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and some of those guys who think that
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they were the best players ever, and some
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of those guys who never could play. Yeah.
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You you get a a mix and a
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variance of,
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my term is better than your fraternity.
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There you go.
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And so I graduated,
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in nineteen seventy four, I started teaching. My
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wife and I were married, and then I
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got a raise for refereeing.
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I start, refereeing,
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open city league recreation
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basketball, and, I got a raise from a
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dollar twenty five cents a game to, five
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dollars a game.
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Oh. So I was in I was in
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seven heaven.
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Five times more money. You got it in.
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I would work three games,
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three games a night,
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three times a week. Shit.
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It had nineteen,
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seventy four. That was pretty good money. You
00:03:59.000 –> 00:04:01.000
know, a good nice supplement. You know? Yeah.
00:04:01.000 –> 00:04:01.000
Absolutely.
00:04:02.000 –> 00:04:03.000
And from that point,
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It just happened,
00:04:05.000 –> 00:04:06.000
at the same time.
00:04:07.000 –> 00:04:09.000
I was back at SAW working on my,
00:04:09.000 –> 00:04:10.000
my master’s
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in education
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to become an administrator.
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I got that. I was very fortunate to
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have had,
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a great mentor,
00:04:21.000 –> 00:04:22.000
in the superintendent.
00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:25.000
Who took me on his wings,
00:04:25.000 –> 00:04:26.000
this young,
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African American kid, and,
00:04:30.000 –> 00:04:33.000
and, I went into administration a very young
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age. Okay. Yeah. And,
00:04:35.000 –> 00:04:38.000
I’ll tell you, Brett of the forty years.
00:04:38.000 –> 00:04:39.000
I spent in,
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education
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thirty seven of those years were actually in
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administration. Oh my goodness. So I had a
00:04:46.000 –> 00:04:48.000
lot I had a lot of opportunities
00:04:48.000 –> 00:04:50.000
to screw it up and make mistakes. Exactly.
00:04:51.000 –> 00:04:51.000
Exactly.
00:04:51.000 –> 00:04:53.000
So what what were your expectations like? So
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you said you grew up in the south,
00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:56.000
didn’t have any money, but yet, I would
00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:59.000
think to do that, your expectations were high.
00:04:59.000 –> 00:05:02.000
Expect taste expectations are extremely high that you
00:05:02.000 –> 00:05:03.000
have to work.
00:05:04.000 –> 00:05:07.000
You had to work. My mom and still,
00:05:08.000 –> 00:05:11.000
work ethic in in all of us Yeah.
00:05:11.000 –> 00:05:11.000
That,
00:05:13.000 –> 00:05:15.000
that there was no compromise. What did she
00:05:15.000 –> 00:05:17.000
do for a living? Oh, gosh. She,
00:05:17.000 –> 00:05:18.000
worked in the fields,
00:05:19.000 –> 00:05:20.000
cotton fields,
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She was a nurse. She went back and
00:05:23.000 –> 00:05:26.000
got, her certificate to be a nurse.
00:05:26.000 –> 00:05:29.000
And, and then, of course, when we moved
00:05:29.000 –> 00:05:32.000
here in sixty six, She worked at Olin,
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industry where money was, plenty for, work was
00:05:36.000 –> 00:05:39.000
plenty for, and she was able to care
00:05:39.000 –> 00:05:42.000
for us, but our value system was simple.
00:05:43.000 –> 00:05:44.000
Work,
00:05:44.000 –> 00:05:45.000
be honest,
00:05:46.000 –> 00:05:46.000
go to church,
00:05:47.000 –> 00:05:48.000
give something back.
00:05:49.000 –> 00:05:52.000
It’s simple. And World needs that. Right? It’s
00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:55.000
so simple. And, I never forgot that. And
00:05:55.000 –> 00:05:57.000
that’s what I believe in today, and that’s
00:05:58.000 –> 00:05:59.000
we brought up our daughters.
00:06:00.000 –> 00:06:03.000
That’s the message that I send clearly
00:06:04.000 –> 00:06:04.000
to young people.
00:06:05.000 –> 00:06:06.000
I’ve sent
00:06:06.000 –> 00:06:08.000
over my years.
00:06:08.000 –> 00:06:09.000
And,
00:06:10.000 –> 00:06:12.000
even now, I’m heavily involved,
00:06:13.000 –> 00:06:13.000
with,
00:06:14.000 –> 00:06:15.000
two
00:06:15.000 –> 00:06:16.000
projects,
00:06:16.000 –> 00:06:17.000
and building forty,
00:06:18.000 –> 00:06:20.000
affordable houses in Alton,
00:06:21.000 –> 00:06:22.000
starting March,
00:06:23.000 –> 00:06:25.000
and I put together a white people to
00:06:25.000 –> 00:06:25.000
revitalize,
00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:27.000
Venice.
00:06:29.000 –> 00:06:30.000
You know, that community,
00:06:31.000 –> 00:06:31.000
low income,
00:06:32.000 –> 00:06:33.000
poverty stricken, driven,
00:06:35.000 –> 00:06:37.000
no grocery store, no healthcare facilities.
00:06:38.000 –> 00:06:40.000
We were fortunate to get them a new
00:06:40.000 –> 00:06:44.000
elementary school, which, we will break ground there.
00:06:44.000 –> 00:06:45.000
In March,
00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:49.000
about twenty four, twenty six million dollars thanks
00:06:49.000 –> 00:06:50.000
to our legislators.
00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:53.000
We’re working them a grocery store. We’re working
00:06:53.000 –> 00:06:56.000
to get them a healthcare sit, facility.
00:06:57.000 –> 00:07:00.000
And then, we’re gonna put forty homes there.
00:07:01.000 –> 00:07:04.000
We’re working to bring in a rec center
00:07:04.000 –> 00:07:06.000
for the young people there. So again,
00:07:06.000 –> 00:07:08.000
given back to the community,
00:07:09.000 –> 00:07:12.000
The second initiative that, I have going now.
00:07:14.000 –> 00:07:17.000
For the Madison High School, students, we’ve started
00:07:17.000 –> 00:07:19.000
a Sky bullshit fund
00:07:20.000 –> 00:07:22.000
for those high school students,
00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:26.000
whereby we will be able to give
00:07:26.000 –> 00:07:27.000
anywhere from,
00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:31.000
three to five two thousand dollars scholarships,
00:07:33.000 –> 00:07:34.000
each year beginning,
00:07:35.000 –> 00:07:35.000
and,
00:07:36.000 –> 00:07:37.000
twenty four.
00:07:37.000 –> 00:07:39.000
So, you know, again, I’m,
00:07:39.000 –> 00:07:40.000
pretty,
00:07:40.000 –> 00:07:42.000
pretty patient. But but, you know, the the
00:07:42.000 –> 00:07:45.000
the thing, it’s all on my time.
00:07:46.000 –> 00:07:48.000
You know, it’s not like I have to
00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:50.000
punch a clock now. It’s not like I’ve
00:07:50.000 –> 00:07:52.000
got When I was superintendent,
00:07:52.000 –> 00:07:54.000
I had seven thousand six hundred students in
00:07:54.000 –> 00:07:56.000
the Atmos School District,
00:07:56.000 –> 00:07:57.000
and parents,
00:07:58.000 –> 00:07:59.000
very demanding.
00:08:00.000 –> 00:08:02.000
And so I don’t have the parents screaming
00:08:02.000 –> 00:08:04.000
and hollering at me. I missed the kids.
00:08:04.000 –> 00:08:06.000
Same thing with her friend. I don’t have
00:08:07.000 –> 00:08:09.000
folks like you from the whole line eye
00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:11.000
screaming and holler net. That’s a terrible call.
00:08:11.000 –> 00:08:14.000
That was a terrible call. Hightower. You you
00:08:14.000 –> 00:08:16.000
know, you hate Illinois. Right? Oh, you know,
00:08:16.000 –> 00:08:18.000
and then I go to Michigan. You hate
00:08:18.000 –> 00:08:20.000
Michigan? I hate Michigan. You know, I hate,
00:08:20.000 –> 00:08:20.000
you know,
00:08:21.000 –> 00:08:23.000
So, you know, I don’t have that now.
00:08:23.000 –> 00:08:25.000
You know, I just wake up and do
00:08:25.000 –> 00:08:26.000
the kinds of things that,
00:08:27.000 –> 00:08:28.000
that meets
00:08:28.000 –> 00:08:30.000
my value system
00:08:30.000 –> 00:08:33.000
of giving back and, and so on. Then
00:08:33.000 –> 00:08:36.000
during the wintertime, my wife and I, forty
00:08:36.000 –> 00:08:37.000
nine years,
00:08:38.000 –> 00:08:38.000
we,
00:08:39.000 –> 00:08:42.000
I go to Florida and, spend time there.
00:08:42.000 –> 00:08:44.000
So Where can that golf game? I do.
00:08:44.000 –> 00:08:46.000
What’s the handicap? My handicap is a seven.
00:08:47.000 –> 00:08:47.000
My index
00:08:48.000 –> 00:08:51.000
found. My index is, is about an eight,
00:08:52.000 –> 00:08:54.000
seven out at Sunset Country Club. So, yeah,
00:08:54.000 –> 00:08:57.000
so, you know, so Yeah. The the the
00:08:57.000 –> 00:08:58.000
the golf has improved
00:08:59.000 –> 00:09:01.000
since I retired because I was I’m not
00:09:01.000 –> 00:09:03.000
on a I’m not on a phone all
00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:05.000
the time. Yeah. Check this email resolve that
00:09:05.000 –> 00:09:07.000
message and do all that. So, you know,
00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:08.000
here’s the thing I you’ve mentioned a couple
00:09:08.000 –> 00:09:11.000
times is your values organization. Right? So your
00:09:11.000 –> 00:09:13.000
values, I think we think of as an
00:09:13.000 –> 00:09:15.000
organization We had to be values aligned and
00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:17.000
mission aligned. And and what I have found
00:09:17.000 –> 00:09:19.000
through my twenty two, twenty three year career
00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:21.000
is when those things are aligned, good things
00:09:21.000 –> 00:09:24.000
happen. Right? Absolutely. But when they’re not, bad
00:09:24.000 –> 00:09:25.000
things happen. Right? Absolutely.
00:09:25.000 –> 00:09:27.000
Because be and and the reason,
00:09:29.000 –> 00:09:30.000
there are no guardrails.
00:09:31.000 –> 00:09:34.000
When you when your when your value system
00:09:35.000 –> 00:09:36.000
is a line, there are guardrails that
00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:37.000
keeps
00:09:40.000 –> 00:09:44.000
that keep you focused. Yeah. You know, when
00:09:44.000 –> 00:09:44.000
I
00:09:45.000 –> 00:09:46.000
refereed,
00:09:46.000 –> 00:09:49.000
when I represented the United States, I remember
00:09:49.000 –> 00:09:50.000
this
00:09:50.000 –> 00:09:52.000
so vividly.
00:09:53.000 –> 00:09:55.000
My my first trip
00:09:57.000 –> 00:09:59.000
to the world games. That was the first
00:09:59.000 –> 00:10:01.000
time that, I mean, I’m on major,
00:10:03.000 –> 00:10:04.000
international stage.
00:10:06.000 –> 00:10:08.000
Mike Kachevsky was the coach
00:10:09.000 –> 00:10:10.000
of the US team.
00:10:11.000 –> 00:10:12.000
I’m never free.
00:10:14.000 –> 00:10:15.000
What an awesome responsibility
00:10:16.000 –> 00:10:18.000
to represent your country?
00:10:19.000 –> 00:10:22.000
And as you as they prepare you to
00:10:22.000 –> 00:10:23.000
go
00:10:23.000 –> 00:10:24.000
to,
00:10:25.000 –> 00:10:28.000
setting like what my first trip was.
00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:31.000
They tell you, it’s not if
00:10:31.000 –> 00:10:32.000
you’re gonna be proposition.
00:10:34.000 –> 00:10:35.000
It’s when.
00:10:36.000 –> 00:10:37.000
And
00:10:38.000 –> 00:10:39.000
The
00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:42.000
simple answer is, just say no.
00:10:43.000 –> 00:10:45.000
It it walks to double proposition to do
00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:47.000
what? A proposition given money.
00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:48.000
Yeah.
00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:50.000
To
00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:53.000
Make a different call. Make a different different
00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:57.000
call or something like that. So, yeah, those
00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:57.000
all of those,
00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:00.000
tangibles
00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:01.000
are
00:11:01.000 –> 00:11:03.000
there to incentivize
00:11:03.000 –> 00:11:06.000
you to do the wrong things. Right. But
00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:09.000
if your value system is in check,
00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000
you’re gonna do the right things when people
00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:13.000
aren’t around.
00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000
And that’s the key thing I tell young
00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:17.000
people.
00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:20.000
Don’t get caught up with just doing the
00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:21.000
right things
00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:22.000
when,
00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:24.000
or the right thing when
00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:28.000
somebody’s watching you. The big test is can
00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:29.000
you
00:11:29.000 –> 00:11:32.000
do the right thing or the right things
00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:36.000
when people aren’t Yep. And that’s where
00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:40.000
the value system comes into play. The safeguards,
00:11:40.000 –> 00:11:43.000
the safe rails, guardrails are there.
00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:45.000
To keep you
00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:45.000
centered
00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000
and keep you, keep your eye on the
00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:50.000
mark, and so on, and you don’t get
00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:51.000
sidelined.
00:11:51.000 –> 00:11:54.000
Yep. So it’s, my buddy Steve went off
00:11:54.000 –> 00:11:55.000
when we were talking last night. I told
00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000
him that you were coming on, and he’s
00:11:57.000 –> 00:11:59.000
a big basketball guy. And so shout out
00:11:59.000 –> 00:12:01.000
to Steve, but He’s like, how do you
00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:02.000
handle up objectivity?
00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000
Surely there were some coaches or programs or
00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:07.000
players that were harder to you know, you
00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:09.000
know, they were gonna be on you the
00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:10.000
whole time. Right? And and so how did
00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000
you stay objective with that of not trying
00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000
to choose sides or when you go represent
00:12:14.000 –> 00:12:16.000
America to not say, I wanna, you know,
00:12:16.000 –> 00:12:18.000
I want my guys to win. The guardrails.
00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:20.000
Yep. Yeah. Again, the value system,
00:12:21.000 –> 00:12:22.000
honesty, integrity,
00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:26.000
hard work. Yeah. And, that you put those
00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000
all in that, as a potpourri.
00:12:29.000 –> 00:12:31.000
Guess what’s gonna come out? Hence why you
00:12:31.000 –> 00:12:32.000
did twelve,
00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000
final four. You got it. Yeah. And and,
00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:34.000
you know,
00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:38.000
coach Knight and I were very close. Yeah.
00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:39.000
A lot of people don’t know that. We
00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000
talked
00:12:41.000 –> 00:12:43.000
you know, we would bump heads on the
00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:43.000
floor.
00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:45.000
But,
00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000
off the floor, we would talk,
00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:49.000
we talked a lot
00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000
about education, about young people,
00:12:52.000 –> 00:12:54.000
one of the smartest individuals you ever wanna
00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:55.000
be around.
00:12:56.000 –> 00:12:56.000
And,
00:12:58.000 –> 00:12:58.000
guardrails.
00:12:59.000 –> 00:12:59.000
Okay.
00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000
You always know that
00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:06.000
going into that game,
00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:10.000
you have to be
00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:12.000
not subjective,
00:13:13.000 –> 00:13:16.000
but objective. You see it you call it
00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:19.000
and let the chips fall where they may.
00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:22.000
But by the same token you there to
00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:26.000
lend a hand as as to both sides.
00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:27.000
And when I say that,
00:13:28.000 –> 00:13:30.000
I would go to, say, coach Knight, for
00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:32.000
example, and say, Hey.
00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:34.000
Number fifty four,
00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:36.000
He’s got his hands on him.
00:13:37.000 –> 00:13:40.000
Yep. Now I’m telling you to take care
00:13:40.000 –> 00:13:41.000
of it. If you don’t take care of
00:13:41.000 –> 00:13:43.000
it, you’re gonna take care of it. Alright.
00:13:43.000 –> 00:13:46.000
Then you go down to the other end,
00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:47.000
Michigan State,
00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:51.000
at that time, Judd Heathco. Yeah. Are, I’m
00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000
gonna tell you a little story about Lou
00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:55.000
Henson in just a moment, but
00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:57.000
you would do the same thing on the
00:13:57.000 –> 00:14:00.000
Gilliland the coaches know that. And they respect
00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:04.000
you, and they know when that game is
00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:05.000
on the line.
00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:08.000
They can trust you to do the right
00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:11.000
thing. Yeah. It goes back through what I
00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:13.000
said earlier, the right thing.
00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna make mistakes.
00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:19.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna miss a
00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:19.000
call,
00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:23.000
but they trust you to do the right
00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:23.000
thing.
00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000
Lou Henson played a very,
00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:30.000
important role in Ed Hightower getting to the
00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.000
big ten, and I never knew about it
00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:32.000
until
00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:35.000
six years after I was in the big
00:14:35.000 –> 00:14:37.000
ten, after I became a crew chief.
00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:42.000
Lou Henson was in this area, recruiting.
00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:45.000
Saw me referee in a high school basketball
00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:46.000
game.
00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:49.000
Called a big ten,
00:14:50.000 –> 00:14:52.000
Wow. The next day and said, I mean,
00:14:52.000 –> 00:14:52.000
tell you,
00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000
I saw this young African American.
00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000
He is gonna be good.
00:14:59.000 –> 00:15:01.000
You need to get someone down there and
00:15:01.000 –> 00:15:03.000
take a look at this guy and start
00:15:03.000 –> 00:15:07.000
tracking him. He’s gonna be good. And somebody
00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:10.000
is gonna get him. Another league is gonna
00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:13.000
get him, you need to take a look.
00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:15.000
Well, lo and behold,
00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:16.000
I’m twenty
00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:19.000
five years old. I go to my first
00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:21.000
camp at Michigan State, Big Ten Camp.
00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000
Out of a hundred and ten
00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:27.000
campers,
00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:29.000
they only took two
00:15:32.000 –> 00:15:32.000
campers
00:15:33.000 –> 00:15:35.000
and added us to what they used to
00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:38.000
call in the Big Ten, our satellite crew.
00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:40.000
That was the
00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:41.000
officials
00:15:41.000 –> 00:15:44.000
that they would hire at that time at
00:15:44.000 –> 00:15:46.000
a Western Illinois university, which was a division
00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000
two Eastern
00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:49.000
Northern Iowa
00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:53.000
Okay? And they would track your experience.
00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.000
You got it. Yeah. And then from that
00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:56.000
point,
00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000
two years later,
00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000
the supervisor of the Big Ten called the
00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000
Missouri Valley and said, look,
00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:08.000
we’ve got this young kid And again, I
00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000
don’t know this at the time. I know,
00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:12.000
as they say, I know nothing.
00:16:12.000 –> 00:16:15.000
He’s getting the Gilliland security. Exactly.
00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:16.000
So,
00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:20.000
I was at, I was selected to do
00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:22.000
the National Jukot Tournament.
00:16:23.000 –> 00:16:25.000
I am now twenty
00:16:25.000 –> 00:16:26.000
seven years old.
00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:30.000
The National Duke Oak tournament in Hutchison, Kansas.
00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:32.000
And,
00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:33.000
Johnny Overbe,
00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:35.000
who was the Missouri Valley,
00:16:36.000 –> 00:16:37.000
supervisor.
00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:40.000
I didn’t know he was at the game.
00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:44.000
He sat and watch me work for three
00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:45.000
days in a row.
00:16:46.000 –> 00:16:46.000
Okay.
00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:47.000
And,
00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:48.000
with that,
00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:54.000
He came in that third night after the
00:16:54.000 –> 00:16:55.000
game and said, I’ve watched you,
00:16:56.000 –> 00:16:57.000
three days.
00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000
I wanna bring you into the Missouri Valley.
00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:03.000
Brought me into the Missouri Valley.
00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:09.000
You know, I fool some Gilliland,
00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000
I worked there two years in the Missouri
00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:14.000
Gilliland then a big ten,
00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:15.000
set at,
00:17:16.000 –> 00:17:18.000
I We’re gonna bring you and put you
00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000
on a crew. So they put me on
00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:22.000
a crew at twenty nine years old
00:17:22.000 –> 00:17:24.000
on a now you think about this.
00:17:24.000 –> 00:17:25.000
Now,
00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:27.000
That’s young. That young?
00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:31.000
Yeah. That is too young. Okay. That’s Okay.
00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:32.000
T
00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:35.000
o o, too young. Right.
00:17:35.000 –> 00:17:38.000
And, but I was very fortunate.
00:17:40.000 –> 00:17:42.000
I walked in and let me tell you,
00:17:43.000 –> 00:17:44.000
you think you’re ready.
00:17:45.000 –> 00:17:47.000
Well, you find quickly when you walk into
00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:49.000
an Illinois and you’ve got fourteen thousand
00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:54.000
crazies there on crosses on you majorly.
00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:57.000
Or you go to Gilliland,
00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:59.000
and you got sixteen thousand people there, a
00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:02.000
sea of red. Yeah. And at that time,
00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:03.000
you know, coach Hightower was just like a
00:18:03.000 –> 00:18:07.000
giant. He was a giant in the game
00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:08.000
and a big man
00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000
to to boot. I had seen him on
00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:14.000
TV, but I did not know him.
00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:17.000
Okay? Mhmm. So I go out there, but
00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:18.000
I had been told
00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:19.000
by,
00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:20.000
another,
00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:22.000
prominent
00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:25.000
veteran referee. His name was Jim Bane. Oh
00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:27.000
my gosh. That’s so crazy. See, you’re not
00:18:27.000 –> 00:18:29.000
gonna believe this. I thought you’re gonna say
00:18:29.000 –> 00:18:30.000
this. He was my neighbor growing up in
00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:33.000
Matune, Illinois. Are you kidding me? Oh my
00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:36.000
gosh. Well, Jim Baine was my mentor. He’s
00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000
literally one of the things I was gonna
00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:40.000
bring Jim. Jim Bane. Yeah. Jim Bane,
00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:44.000
Matune. You’re Hightower. Banker and all, well, Jim
00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000
and I. Jim and I used to fly.
00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000
So funny. Jim was a pilot.
00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:51.000
At one time. I leased an airplane,
00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:54.000
and had someone flying me around. And we
00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000
would hook up. I’d go to Decatur, pick
00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:58.000
him up, depending on where we’re going. But
00:18:58.000 –> 00:18:59.000
the
00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:00.000
the the
00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:02.000
he
00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:03.000
initiation
00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:04.000
to the big ten,
00:19:05.000 –> 00:19:05.000
Jim
00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:07.000
I talk I would talk to him all
00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:09.000
of the time. And I said, Jim, tell
00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:11.000
me, how do you heal
00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:13.000
a coach knight?
00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:15.000
How do you heal?
00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:17.000
And he says, and he used to call
00:19:17.000 –> 00:19:18.000
me Eddie. Eddie,
00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:21.000
coach Knight,
00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:23.000
he’s gonna test you
00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000
when you first get in a big ten.
00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:27.000
You could take it to the bank.
00:19:28.000 –> 00:19:31.000
Judd Heathcoat is gonna test you
00:19:31.000 –> 00:19:33.000
when you Yeah.
00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000
Get to one of his games.
00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:38.000
He says, not coach knight. It’s gonna say
00:19:38.000 –> 00:19:41.000
something to you. It may be religious.
00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:44.000
It may be political Gilliland
00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:44.000
it.
00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:46.000
He may say something,
00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:48.000
racially.
00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:50.000
Oh my god. Because he wants to see
00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:51.000
how you’re gonna react.
00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000
How thick is the man you have? Don’t
00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:55.000
react.
00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:56.000
And he says,
00:19:57.000 –> 00:20:00.000
all of these coaches in their own way
00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:02.000
will test you and here’s why.
00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000
They’re not concerned
00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:06.000
about you
00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:07.000
at home.
00:20:09.000 –> 00:20:13.000
They’re concerned about you when Indiana goes to
00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:13.000
Purdue.
00:20:14.000 –> 00:20:17.000
And that fifteen thousand people are there
00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:19.000
at Machia Arena.
00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:21.000
Or when he goes to Illinois,
00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:25.000
and they’ve got the fourteen thousand people are
00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:26.000
so there.
00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:29.000
They are They wanna know how you’re gonna
00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:30.000
behave on the road.
00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:34.000
So I get asked this story often. What
00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:36.000
was the first thing coach and I said
00:20:36.000 –> 00:20:36.000
to you?
00:20:37.000 –> 00:20:37.000
So,
00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:39.000
this young cat,
00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:43.000
twenty eight years old, I walk out there
00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:44.000
on the floor.
00:20:45.000 –> 00:20:46.000
We get there. We have to be there
00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:48.000
an hour and a half before game time.
00:20:48.000 –> 00:20:50.000
Nobody’s in the arena.
00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:52.000
Then we have to walk out on the
00:20:52.000 –> 00:20:55.000
floor. Thirty minutes before game time.
00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.000
We walk out there thirty minutes before game
00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000
time. There’s just a sea of red, sixteen
00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:03.000
thousand people, sea of red.
00:21:03.000 –> 00:21:05.000
And then coach Hightower
00:21:05.000 –> 00:21:08.000
at that time, he would normally come out
00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:09.000
a minute before the game.
00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:11.000
That was his demo.
00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:12.000
Well,
00:21:13.000 –> 00:21:15.000
He knew that he had this young,
00:21:17.000 –> 00:21:18.000
young official.
00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000
He comes out about two and a half
00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:22.000
minutes before game time.
00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:26.000
The sea the the the the fans, they
00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000
stand
00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:30.000
held to the king, held to the king.
00:21:30.000 –> 00:21:32.000
And so he walks by.
00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:36.000
The three officials. He goes down shakes hands
00:21:37.000 –> 00:21:39.000
with the, shake hand with the,
00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:42.000
opposing coach. Yeah. So he comes back and
00:21:42.000 –> 00:21:44.000
I’m just I I’m so scared.
00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000
I am so scared to Shamkia because he,
00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000
you know, all of the history
00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000
throwing chairs, screaming yelling, you know, but just
00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000
just just his m o, you know, just,
00:21:55.000 –> 00:21:57.000
you know, he was he was a national
00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:58.000
figure.
00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:00.000
So he goes down
00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:04.000
and he gets about six inches. His rear
00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:06.000
end from hitting his seat.
00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:08.000
And he comes back, and he gets right
00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:09.000
in my face.
00:22:10.000 –> 00:22:11.000
And he says,
00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000
I hope you’re not tonight when I get
00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:16.000
on you. Oh.
00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000
It’s gonna be,
00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:21.000
chewing that, and you can fill fill in
00:22:21.000 –> 00:22:22.000
the words.
00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:24.000
That you’ve never
00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000
this is what it gave. And the fans
00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:27.000
are eating it up.
00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000
Yeah. The fans are eating it up.
00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:32.000
This will be a chewing like you’ve never
00:22:32.000 –> 00:22:34.000
had before. Yeah. Welcome
00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:36.000
to the Big Ten.
00:22:37.000 –> 00:22:39.000
Now you think about that for a moment.
00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:41.000
And now, so that was my
00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:42.000
intro
00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:44.000
to coach Knight.
00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:48.000
Well, I in talking with Jim, Jim said
00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:51.000
Listen. The way you hail a coach knight,
00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000
you don’t you you hail him the same
00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000
way I want you to handle every other
00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:55.000
coach.
00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:59.000
You when you get near the coach where
00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000
he’s standing, get out on the floor.
00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:02.000
And then
00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000
when you start to go back down the
00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000
floor, you go. You don’t you don’t linger.
00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:09.000
Doing a time out.
00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:12.000
Get out on the floor. You don’t need
00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:14.000
to and I I get angry now when
00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000
I see these officials standing over their body
00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:17.000
coaches.
00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:20.000
They are not there to be your friend.
00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000
They don’t give you candy.
00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:26.000
And they’re not handing out candy. No. So
00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:27.000
bottom line,
00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:30.000
I always adopt at that. I and that
00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:30.000
was my,
00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000
way of Helen Coaches. Now
00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:36.000
the next game,
00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:39.000
I’ve got conference game. Uh-oh.
00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:40.000
I’ve got
00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:42.000
Judd Heathcote
00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:45.000
at Iowa against
00:23:46.000 –> 00:23:47.000
Lou
00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:47.000
lutosin.
00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:49.000
Yeah. Okay.
00:23:50.000 –> 00:23:53.000
He was there. Apartment? I forgot he was
00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:55.000
there. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. They had
00:23:55.000 –> 00:23:56.000
just opened Okay. Carver,
00:23:57.000 –> 00:23:59.000
hawk iron. Yeah. Okay.
00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:00.000
So now
00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:02.000
Think about this for a moment.
00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:05.000
The Iowa fans, they
00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:08.000
are rabbit.
00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:11.000
Because again, and I will think about it.
00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:13.000
There there there are no major league sports.
00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:16.000
It’s it’s just all this is the big
00:24:16.000 –> 00:24:18.000
deal. This is the big leagues as they
00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:18.000
call it.
00:24:19.000 –> 00:24:21.000
Judd Heat heat coat
00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000
didn’t like young officials
00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:28.000
because he could not trust them. And I
00:24:28.000 –> 00:24:29.000
and I and I understand why now as
00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:32.000
I as I got into it, I I
00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:34.000
I quickly learned that. But again,
00:24:35.000 –> 00:24:38.000
same thing. Jim said, Ed,
00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:40.000
he’s gonna say something to you.
00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:44.000
Just let it go. So we go out
00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:44.000
there.
00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:46.000
I’m working with this veteran referee.
00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:50.000
This veteran referee in the first five minutes
00:24:50.000 –> 00:24:53.000
he makes three of the worst calls in
00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:54.000
America.
00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:59.000
Michigan two against Michigan State One against Iowa.
00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:02.000
Neither one of the coaches said a word.
00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000
Neither one of the coaches.
00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:05.000
So now,
00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:08.000
it Hightower when he finally gets enough
00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:09.000
nerve
00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:11.000
to blow his whistle.
00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000
I make my first call after about ten
00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:16.000
minutes. It’s the right call. Yeah.
00:25:17.000 –> 00:25:20.000
Judd Heath Coach, and it’s the correct call.
00:25:20.000 –> 00:25:22.000
Judd Heath Coach.
00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:25.000
Jumped up.
00:25:25.000 –> 00:25:26.000
And
00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000
so I said, I knew it.
00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:32.000
Richard, where did this young kid come from?
00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:34.000
You will never make it. I’m gonna make
00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000
sure you’re fired from the big ten. Oh
00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:39.000
my. You can’t make it. So we get
00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:40.000
through the game. Let me tell you.
00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000
Doing the right thing,
00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000
even when it’s unpopular.
00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:48.000
Michigan State is on the road.
00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:52.000
The last play of the game.
00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:56.000
I’m on national TV, CBS, Billy Packer is
00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:57.000
doing the game.
00:25:57.000 –> 00:25:59.000
There’s an out of bounds play.
00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:03.000
It’s my call. It’s right on the sideline.
00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:05.000
The coach,
00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000
heat code could see it certainly
00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:11.000
Iowa could see it lead house.
00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:13.000
Now, the kid barely,
00:26:14.000 –> 00:26:16.000
barely stepped on the sideline.
00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000
I could have easily said
00:26:21.000 –> 00:26:23.000
I didn’t see that call.
00:26:25.000 –> 00:26:26.000
I could have said that.
00:26:27.000 –> 00:26:29.000
Do the right thing, even when it’s not
00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:31.000
poplar. Yep.
00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:33.000
Boom is a great advice.
00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:35.000
Made the call.
00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:38.000
Iowa lost a game by one.
00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000
John Heathco jumps up,
00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:45.000
great call. Now wait, he’s the same guy.
00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000
The whole game that was saying you’ll never
00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:49.000
make it. You’re thinking part.
00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:50.000
And
00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000
I made the right call
00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:54.000
from that point,
00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:58.000
individual, the coaches in the Big Ten, and
00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:00.000
Across the country began to say, who is
00:27:00.000 –> 00:27:02.000
this young kid? Yeah.
00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:04.000
I referred my first final four at thirty
00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:05.000
four years old.
00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:09.000
I worked seven final fours in a row.
00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000
Holy smokes. In a row. That’s not normal.
00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:14.000
Not normal. You go back. I I think
00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:16.000
that’s the time has been done in the
00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000
history of the game. That’s amazing.
00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:19.000
So it again,
00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000
the story that I tell young people
00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:24.000
do the right thing even when it’s not
00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:24.000
popular.
00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:29.000
Do the right thing when people aren’t watching
00:27:29.000 –> 00:27:30.000
you.
00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:33.000
That’s the value system
00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:34.000
that
00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:38.000
you want to build your life around.
00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000
You can’t please everyone.
00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:42.000
I’ve as superintendent.
00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:43.000
Yeah.
00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000
Okay. I never tried to please.
00:27:47.000 –> 00:27:48.000
My employees,
00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:51.000
every decision that I made,
00:27:52.000 –> 00:27:53.000
I made it
00:27:54.000 –> 00:27:56.000
and the interests of the young people.
00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:00.000
Every decision when I refereed, I made it
00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:01.000
in the best interests
00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:03.000
of those players.
00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:05.000
And I would tell him upfront.
00:28:06.000 –> 00:28:08.000
I’m gonna tell you one time to get
00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:09.000
your shirt tail in.
00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:13.000
You’re not this is my game, you’re not
00:28:13.000 –> 00:28:15.000
gonna be walking around with your shirt tail
00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:16.000
out.
00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:18.000
I’m gonna tell you if I tell you
00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:19.000
to get your hands
00:28:21.000 –> 00:28:24.000
off, I’m trying to help you. Yeah. But
00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:26.000
I’m not gonna keep trust me. I’m not
00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:29.000
gonna keep telling you that. Yeah. And that’s
00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:31.000
the That was the relationship I had with
00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:32.000
coaches.
00:28:33.000 –> 00:28:35.000
I would throw my hand up, and when
00:28:35.000 –> 00:28:37.000
I said, this is it. I would listen.
00:28:37.000 –> 00:28:38.000
I never had rabbit ears.
00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:41.000
I would listen to coaches when they griped
00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:42.000
and complained.
00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:44.000
Because, you know,
00:28:44.000 –> 00:28:46.000
I had the philosophy
00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:48.000
I’m not always right.
00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:51.000
I’m not always right.
00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:52.000
And if I
00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:54.000
don’t react,
00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000
But give that coach an opportunity to disagree
00:28:57.000 –> 00:29:00.000
with me, and he goes and looks at
00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:02.000
the film, he’s gonna come back and say,
00:29:02.000 –> 00:29:03.000
you know what?
00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:06.000
That that guy was Hightower, and, you know,
00:29:07.000 –> 00:29:08.000
he treated me with respect.
00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:10.000
Okay?
00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:13.000
But when I throw my hand up, and
00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:15.000
I’m the guy that started
00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:18.000
that put made this a national mechanic, when
00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:19.000
I do this,
00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:22.000
That’s it. Don’t say another word. This is
00:29:22.000 –> 00:29:23.000
your warning. That’s it.
00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:26.000
And that’s how I’ve lived my life, you
00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:26.000
know.
00:29:27.000 –> 00:29:29.000
I believe in second chance.
00:29:29.000 –> 00:29:31.000
For young people,
00:29:32.000 –> 00:29:34.000
people in general. Yeah. But I’m not gonna
00:29:34.000 –> 00:29:37.000
keep giving you chance after chance. I love
00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:38.000
that. So so what I mean, you made
00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:40.000
a ton of calls. Right? Obviously, in a
00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:43.000
in a thirty six year career, but not
00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:44.000
every one of them was the right call.
00:29:44.000 –> 00:29:45.000
So what did you do when you did
00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:47.000
mess up and missed a call? If I
00:29:47.000 –> 00:29:50.000
missed a call, and I would go in,
00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000
when it was even not poplar, I’d go
00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:54.000
down I’d go and break down every
00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:56.000
every call
00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:58.000
that I So after the game. After the
00:29:58.000 –> 00:30:00.000
game. And do you wanna do a makeup
00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:01.000
call? No. No makeup.
00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000
If I missed a call during the game,
00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:05.000
let me tell you what I would do.
00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:07.000
I would tell the coach coach. That’s on
00:30:07.000 –> 00:30:10.000
me. I missed that call. Yeah.
00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:12.000
I missed it. I would tell a player,
00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000
but I’m not gonna keep It does make
00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:15.000
you feel better, though. I mean, we just
00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:17.000
I coach eighth grade basketball right now, and
00:30:17.000 –> 00:30:19.000
a ref the other night so that he
00:30:19.000 –> 00:30:20.000
goes, hey, Sorry. I missed that. You took
00:30:20.000 –> 00:30:22.000
ownership. And I’m like, you know what? What
00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:23.000
do you say? You know, and that and
00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:25.000
that’s the bottom line. That’s the bottom line.
00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:26.000
You know, don’t
00:30:27.000 –> 00:30:29.000
you you don’t need to alibi. You don’t
00:30:29.000 –> 00:30:30.000
need to make excuses.
00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:32.000
You don’t need to try to justify it.
00:30:32.000 –> 00:30:34.000
I missed a call. Yep. Our coach, and
00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:37.000
I tell young people when I’m working with
00:30:37.000 –> 00:30:37.000
them.
00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:40.000
Just say coach, you may be right.
00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:42.000
Even you know that
00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:45.000
you got it right. Yeah. Just say coach,
00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:46.000
you may be right.
00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:48.000
Because you’re not gonna win that moment when
00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:48.000
the temperature is high. Yeah. You’ve gotta bring
00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:49.000
the
00:30:49.000 –> 00:30:50.000
temp
00:30:56.000 –> 00:30:58.000
down. Coach, you may be right. You may
00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:00.000
be right. I didn’t say you were. That’s
00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:02.000
right. You may be right. Okay.
00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:05.000
Dean Smith was one of my,
00:31:07.000 –> 00:31:08.000
all time favorite coaches.
00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:10.000
I can’t remember we were doing a game
00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:11.000
with him
00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:12.000
And,
00:31:12.000 –> 00:31:13.000
we,
00:31:13.000 –> 00:31:15.000
one of my crew members missed a call
00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:17.000
so bad. I was a late referee, and
00:31:17.000 –> 00:31:19.000
I could I could not get him this
00:31:19.000 –> 00:31:21.000
I could not get
00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:22.000
this official
00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:24.000
to change the call.
00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:26.000
I tried to get him
00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000
I called Dean Smith in stay as a
00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:30.000
coach, I I I have to,
00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:32.000
I I have to be able to live
00:31:32.000 –> 00:31:34.000
with myself. We missed that call.
00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:37.000
That was the respect that I, coach,
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:39.000
when I received my doctorate,
00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:41.000
there were
00:31:41.000 –> 00:31:42.000
two people
00:31:43.000 –> 00:31:44.000
who reached out to me right away, and
00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000
I don’t know how they found out.
00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:49.000
And congratulating me on my doctorate of education.
00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000
Dean Smith,
00:31:52.000 –> 00:31:53.000
John Thompson. Wow.
00:31:54.000 –> 00:31:56.000
I think about that. Now, and and and
00:31:56.000 –> 00:31:59.000
the bottom line, see, I was not refereeing
00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:00.000
those guys
00:32:01.000 –> 00:32:01.000
consistently
00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:03.000
like what I was in the Big Ten,
00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000
I would only catch those guys,
00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:08.000
in tournament play or when the ACC played
00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:11.000
the Big Ten. Yep. But they they watch.
00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:12.000
They
00:32:13.000 –> 00:32:15.000
they know who the who the good officials
00:32:15.000 –> 00:32:17.000
are. And they know
00:32:17.000 –> 00:32:18.000
every officials
00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:23.000
breaking point. Yeah.
00:32:23.000 –> 00:32:25.000
How how did you stay a student of
00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:27.000
the game in education and basketball? Because you
00:32:27.000 –> 00:32:29.000
really think about it. You’re you’re growing two
00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:32.000
careers parallel at the same time. Right? You’re
00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:33.000
growing two
00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:35.000
careers parallel.
00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:40.000
You you don’t change.
00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:41.000
Okay.
00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:44.000
And how do you raise there’s so many
00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:46.000
things as I talk to various groups I
00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:47.000
get a question
00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:49.000
on a regular basis.
00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:52.000
How are you able to keep all keep
00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:53.000
the three
00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:54.000
entities,
00:32:56.000 –> 00:32:57.000
together,
00:32:57.000 –> 00:32:59.000
and those entities
00:32:59.000 –> 00:33:00.000
of family.
00:33:02.000 –> 00:33:05.000
My professional job as an educator
00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:07.000
and my,
00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:09.000
my referee in.
00:33:11.000 –> 00:33:12.000
You don’t change.
00:33:13.000 –> 00:33:14.000
First of all, family
00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:18.000
is more important than anything else.
00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:21.000
My wife and I’ve been married forty nine
00:33:21.000 –> 00:33:22.000
years. We have two daughters,
00:33:23.000 –> 00:33:24.000
both successful.
00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:27.000
And as I was rear we were rearing
00:33:27.000 –> 00:33:30.000
our kids, both of our kids went to
00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:32.000
my school. We always believe in
00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:34.000
quality over quantity.
00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:38.000
Quality over quantity.
00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:42.000
Quality time over quantity. There are people who
00:33:42.000 –> 00:33:43.000
are together twenty four hours a day and
00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:46.000
can’t stand each other. Hightower
00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:48.000
my daughters knew,
00:33:48.000 –> 00:33:50.000
and even today,
00:33:51.000 –> 00:33:52.000
if they want me at something,
00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:57.000
They, whenever younger, they’d go in, tell my
00:33:57.000 –> 00:33:57.000
secretary,
00:33:58.000 –> 00:34:00.000
which you put this on debts.
00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:02.000
Scheduled.
00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:04.000
If they wrote it on there,
00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000
it was important to them. Yeah. Now, they
00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000
knew that they could go in there and
00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:11.000
write every day, you you know, you want
00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me here. Yeah. You know, you gotta share
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me.
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:17.000
But if they put something on my calendar
00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:19.000
and I had a game, Guess what?
00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:22.000
No. I got off that game. Yeah. It
00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:23.000
was family.
00:34:25.000 –> 00:34:28.000
Now, decision making, I’m in the decision making
00:34:28.000 –> 00:34:31.000
business in education. I’m in a decision making
00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:32.000
business,
00:34:33.000 –> 00:34:35.000
in referring. Yeah. By the
00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:39.000
Every second, you’re making a decision on someone’s
00:34:39.000 –> 00:34:40.000
livelihood.
00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:42.000
In education,
00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:44.000
It’s about
00:34:45.000 –> 00:34:45.000
educating
00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:48.000
kids for the next,
00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000
step of their, next step in their life.
00:34:52.000 –> 00:34:53.000
Referin?
00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:56.000
I’m working with kids, and I’m making decisions
00:34:56.000 –> 00:34:57.000
about their careers.
00:34:58.000 –> 00:34:59.000
I can put them on the bench with
00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:02.000
a chief foul or a bad cough. Yep.
00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:03.000
And at the wrong time,
00:35:04.000 –> 00:35:05.000
and they’re penalized.
00:35:06.000 –> 00:35:08.000
So you have to always be cognizant
00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:10.000
of that
00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000
and and keep that in the forefront.
00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:16.000
Before every game,
00:35:16.000 –> 00:35:17.000
every game,
00:35:18.000 –> 00:35:21.000
I walk I would go into the restroom
00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000
by myself for a moment, and I would
00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000
say a little prayer. Lord, please.
00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:27.000
Give me the
00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:29.000
wisdom, the knowledge,
00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:31.000
to not
00:35:31.000 –> 00:35:32.000
injure
00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:33.000
or hurt
00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000
someone tonight. Yep.
00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:38.000
And that’s the same thing
00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:41.000
as I went to my office. Give me
00:35:41.000 –> 00:35:42.000
the wisdom knowledge.
00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:44.000
You can’t get too
00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:46.000
big,
00:35:47.000 –> 00:35:49.000
as we like to call it,
00:35:49.000 –> 00:35:51.000
see yourself as too important.
00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:55.000
For what this business is about. You’re in
00:35:55.000 –> 00:35:56.000
the people business.
00:35:56.000 –> 00:36:00.000
You’re in a helping business, your assistance business.
00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:01.000
Now, does that mean
00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:04.000
that you and allow somebody to do what
00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:06.000
the heck they want. And as I I
00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:09.000
I I I told, an individual wants,
00:36:09.000 –> 00:36:12.000
I was a young Gilliland
00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000
everybody knew, no, knew that I was very
00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000
religious, a religion.
00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:17.000
Yeah. And always,
00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:18.000
a
00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:20.000
priority with my family.
00:36:21.000 –> 00:36:23.000
So this guy comes in, and he is
00:36:23.000 –> 00:36:24.000
just being a first class jerk. I’m a
00:36:24.000 –> 00:36:25.000
principal.
00:36:26.000 –> 00:36:28.000
And he knew I was a first class
00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:30.000
jerk.
00:36:30.000 –> 00:36:31.000
And I said to him, I said, sir,
00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:34.000
I said, let’s let’s let’s get an understanding
00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:34.000
here.
00:36:36.000 –> 00:36:38.000
I said, ob he said, you
00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:41.000
you’re you’re religious in all of this. And
00:36:41.000 –> 00:36:43.000
I said, let’s get an understanding here.
00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:45.000
Don’t.
00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:47.000
Take
00:36:48.000 –> 00:36:48.000
my
00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:51.000
religious belief,
00:36:52.000 –> 00:36:52.000
are
00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:53.000
my kindness,
00:36:54.000 –> 00:36:55.000
as a form of weakness.
00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:58.000
If you make that statement again,
00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:00.000
you’re gonna find out
00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000
just who I am.
00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000
So, again, that’s extreme.
00:37:05.000 –> 00:37:06.000
Right. Right. Tell him how to know where
00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:08.000
you stand. You you’re gonna have to. Yeah.
00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:09.000
Don’t take
00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:10.000
this goodness
00:37:11.000 –> 00:37:13.000
as a form of weakness. I love that.
00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:14.000
And the same thing when I when I
00:37:14.000 –> 00:37:17.000
work with coaches. Yep. Coaches. I’m gonna listen
00:37:17.000 –> 00:37:18.000
to you for a moment.
00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:20.000
But you when I do when I give
00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:21.000
you that stop sign,
00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:25.000
that’s it. Don’t I’ve reached my limit.
00:37:26.000 –> 00:37:28.000
Don’t say another word. If you say another
00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:31.000
word, there’s something else coming. I love it.
00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:33.000
So let’s talk about the flying lineup. Let
00:37:33.000 –> 00:37:35.000
me tell you a quick story. So my
00:37:35.000 –> 00:37:37.000
grew up matt too, as I said. My,
00:37:38.000 –> 00:37:40.000
mom’s cousin was, I think, next door neighbors
00:37:40.000 –> 00:37:42.000
to Lou Henson. So so we got to
00:37:42.000 –> 00:37:42.000
know,
00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000
them. And I was lucky enough in nineteen
00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:47.000
eighty nine. They had their final four dinner.
00:37:47.000 –> 00:37:49.000
I got invited. My mom and dad and
00:37:49.000 –> 00:37:52.000
I. Eighty nine were were in Seattle? Yes.
00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:53.000
Uh-huh. I was there. Yeah.
00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:55.000
So, I get to go to the the
00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:57.000
dinner back in Champagne, and, I sit next
00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:59.000
to Andy Kaufman. Oh, yes. And Randy called
00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000
you. Thirty four, I believe. Number thirty and
00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:03.000
I got to try his,
00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.000
final four ring on. And it was really
00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:06.000
it was a great night. You know, I
00:38:06.000 –> 00:38:09.000
met, you know, Ken Gilliland Gail and Nick
00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:09.000
Anderson.
00:38:10.000 –> 00:38:12.000
Stephen Barto and Keno Gil both been on
00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000
this podcast, which has been awesome. Good good
00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:15.000
people. I know both of them very well.
00:38:15.000 –> 00:38:18.000
But talk about the Flat Atlanta because a
00:38:18.000 –> 00:38:20.000
lot of people from Illinois listen to this.
00:38:20.000 –> 00:38:21.000
Our our Missouri friends will just have to
00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:22.000
they’ll just have to listen to it. Sure.
00:38:22.000 –> 00:38:24.000
Hightower? The flying Alana nineteen eighty nine, talk
00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000
about that team and over your career. How
00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:27.000
did
00:38:27.000 –> 00:38:29.000
they rank? Would you like about him? Would
00:38:29.000 –> 00:38:31.000
you like about Liz? Let’s talk about,
00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:33.000
what was the greatest shot?
00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:37.000
Mhmm. What what what shot was that? Well,
00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:39.000
my greatest shot was the turnaround shot at
00:38:39.000 –> 00:38:41.000
the Indiana game that Nick Anderson from Half
00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:43.000
Court turns around throws it up. Who do
00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:44.000
you think was the lead referee on that
00:38:44.000 –> 00:38:46.000
game? That You got it right here. You
00:38:46.000 –> 00:38:47.000
had Hyde Hightower.
00:38:47.000 –> 00:38:49.000
And, let me tell you a little story
00:38:49.000 –> 00:38:51.000
about that game. That that play.
00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:55.000
That play. You remember Indiana went down and
00:38:55.000 –> 00:38:55.000
scored.
00:38:56.000 –> 00:38:56.000
Okay?
00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:58.000
They scored.
00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:01.000
And coach,
00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:05.000
Henson called the time out right away. Mhmm.
00:39:05.000 –> 00:39:06.000
Coach Knight,
00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:10.000
wanted all he wanted to know was how
00:39:10.000 –> 00:39:11.000
much time I was gonna put back on
00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:13.000
the clock because there was no way in
00:39:13.000 –> 00:39:15.000
the world on the baseline Yeah. Even though
00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:17.000
the kid could run. He could run. Yep.
00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:20.000
There’s no way in the world.
00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:22.000
I thought,
00:39:23.000 –> 00:39:25.000
coach and I, or anyone else thought that
00:39:25.000 –> 00:39:27.000
that ball, first of all, was gonna get
00:39:27.000 –> 00:39:30.000
across half court, and they were gonna be
00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000
able to get it up and score.
00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:34.000
I was the lead referee
00:39:34.000 –> 00:39:36.000
I put the ball in playing.
00:39:36.000 –> 00:39:39.000
I saw it all. It witnessed it all.
00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:41.000
And then, of course, I went to,
00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:44.000
to the final four with them that year,
00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:45.000
in Seattle.
00:39:46.000 –> 00:39:47.000
And,
00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:50.000
oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, Michigan was there.
00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:53.000
Miskum was there,
00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:57.000
Seaton Gilliland
00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:58.000
Duke. Yeah.
00:39:59.000 –> 00:40:01.000
You see, That’s Hightower, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh,
00:40:01.000 –> 00:40:03.000
yeah. Oh, yeah. And so,
00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:04.000
I didn’t
00:40:05.000 –> 00:40:06.000
they didn’t assign
00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.000
me to the Illinois
00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:09.000
semifinal.
00:40:10.000 –> 00:40:10.000
Because
00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:14.000
I was from Illinois and again, all of
00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000
that. You know, back then, they were very
00:40:17.000 –> 00:40:18.000
conscious and cognizant of
00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:21.000
those kinds of situation.
00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:23.000
But, you know, again,
00:40:23.000 –> 00:40:26.000
you know, a couple calls here that, coach
00:40:26.000 –> 00:40:29.000
Henson might be the one of the biggest
00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:31.000
jumps of my night when Nick Anderson made
00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:33.000
me chat. Oh my god. It’s unbelievable. So
00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:35.000
talk about Lou Hanson, the Lou Dew.
00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:37.000
Cohenson was,
00:40:38.000 –> 00:40:39.000
a great person.
00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:40.000
Yeah. Number one.
00:40:41.000 –> 00:40:42.000
He was a great humanitarian
00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:44.000
Number two,
00:40:45.000 –> 00:40:47.000
he was one of the most underrated couches
00:40:48.000 –> 00:40:49.000
in the game.
00:40:50.000 –> 00:40:51.000
Underrated.
00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000
I I I just thought and and by
00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000
the way, I I knew
00:40:55.000 –> 00:40:57.000
all of the coaches back then knew them
00:40:57.000 –> 00:40:58.000
all now. Yeah. Okay.
00:40:59.000 –> 00:40:59.000
Cohenson,
00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:04.000
not only was a great person, but he
00:41:04.000 –> 00:41:06.000
was a great tactician.
00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:08.000
The kids had to play
00:41:09.000 –> 00:41:10.000
defense, or they didn’t stay in the game.
00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:11.000
Now at times,
00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:13.000
you know, we would get you you guys
00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:15.000
would get upset that he would pull a
00:41:15.000 –> 00:41:16.000
guy so quickly.
00:41:16.000 –> 00:41:18.000
If you didn’t play defense,
00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:21.000
you were coming out of the game? Yep.
00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:22.000
Okay.
00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:24.000
And that’s just a bottom line. Now maybe
00:41:24.000 –> 00:41:26.000
that happened a little too often, you know,
00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:28.000
if you want to criticize.
00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:29.000
But,
00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:32.000
I I have the greatest respect
00:41:33.000 –> 00:41:34.000
for
00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:35.000
Coach Henson
00:41:35.000 –> 00:41:38.000
and what he stood for. And I did
00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:39.000
a podcast
00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:43.000
on Coach Henson, when he passed away. And,
00:41:43.000 –> 00:41:46.000
the respect that I have for that man,
00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:49.000
and what he brought to the great game.
00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:51.000
And as a human
00:41:51.000 –> 00:41:51.000
being,
00:41:52.000 –> 00:41:55.000
and his willingness to help others.
00:41:56.000 –> 00:41:58.000
And and I just think that he did
00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:00.000
not get the credit. No.
00:42:02.000 –> 00:42:05.000
Did they lose some games? Yes. They lost
00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:07.000
some close games. But when you look at
00:42:07.000 –> 00:42:08.000
his body of work,
00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:10.000
you won’t find anyone
00:42:10.000 –> 00:42:11.000
that put
00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:14.000
as comprehensive
00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:16.000
and complete body of work together
00:42:17.000 –> 00:42:18.000
as coach Hansen.
00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:20.000
Yep. Look at his overall.
00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:23.000
You know, when he was at what,
00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:24.000
centenary.
00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:25.000
Yep.
00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:27.000
A lot of people don’t know.
00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:30.000
He wouldn’t take that job list. The,
00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:33.000
integrated his coach at staff.
00:42:33.000 –> 00:42:34.000
You know,
00:42:35.000 –> 00:42:36.000
that’s the type of humanitarian
00:42:37.000 –> 00:42:39.000
Looking at first people. Look at look at
00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:41.000
no. Looking at society
00:42:41.000 –> 00:42:43.000
and what it meant. Yeah.
00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:43.000
Okay.
00:42:44.000 –> 00:42:44.000
So,
00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:47.000
just a great humanitarian
00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:49.000
Great. Humanitarian.
00:42:50.000 –> 00:42:51.000
So did you see were you around with
00:42:51.000 –> 00:42:52.000
the, FAD five?
00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:56.000
What was the greatest situation with the FAD
00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:58.000
five? Don’t tell me you’re doing that game.
00:42:58.000 –> 00:43:00.000
Was that nineteen ninety two the time out?
00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:02.000
What was what was the greatest what was
00:43:02.000 –> 00:43:04.000
the when you talk about the FAPFI, what
00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:07.000
what What are they known for the one
00:43:07.000 –> 00:43:10.000
single moment in time? Well, the time out.
00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:11.000
I was the lead referee
00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:15.000
on that game with the FAP five in
00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:16.000
New Orleans. Did you make that call? I
00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:19.000
was the lead referee and made the call.
00:43:19.000 –> 00:43:20.000
I had told,
00:43:21.000 –> 00:43:22.000
I was mad at you that night. Why
00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:24.000
is that? I was a Michigan fan at
00:43:24.000 –> 00:43:26.000
that point. I liked the FED five. Well,
00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:27.000
I did too. Let me tell you. Let
00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:29.000
me tell you about the FED five very
00:43:29.000 –> 00:43:29.000
quick. Thing.
00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:31.000
When
00:43:32.000 –> 00:43:34.000
the fab five came on the scene,
00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:37.000
They
00:43:38.000 –> 00:43:39.000
changed the culture
00:43:42.000 –> 00:43:44.000
of sports. Yeah. And
00:43:44.000 –> 00:43:45.000
society forever.
00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:47.000
Yeah.
00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:48.000
And
00:43:48.000 –> 00:43:49.000
that group,
00:43:49.000 –> 00:43:52.000
whatever you wanna say about them, we weren’t
00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:54.000
ready for
00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:56.000
they’re antics. Yeah. You know, with the lone
00:43:56.000 –> 00:43:57.000
parents,
00:43:57.000 –> 00:43:57.000
the,
00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:00.000
the different colored socks.
00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:01.000
Yeah. And,
00:44:02.000 –> 00:44:03.000
and their swagger
00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:07.000
and, their trash talk. Yeah. We
00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:09.000
you know, we weren’t ready for that.
00:44:10.000 –> 00:44:12.000
The commissioner of the Big Ten,
00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:15.000
Sent to me, you’re gonna live with that
00:44:15.000 –> 00:44:17.000
group, and there were three referees,
00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000
and we were all educators We work more.
00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:21.000
He’s in your babies.
00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:24.000
You’re gonna live with them, and you’re gonna
00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:27.000
you’re you’re gonna keep them in check.
00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:28.000
And and,
00:44:30.000 –> 00:44:31.000
Jalen Rose,
00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:33.000
you know, he’s one of the smartest young
00:44:33.000 –> 00:44:35.000
people who you and
00:44:36.000 –> 00:44:37.000
he has a sense of humor.
00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:41.000
He would talk trash out there and one
00:44:41.000 –> 00:44:41.000
night,
00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000
and just just a great individual,
00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:45.000
really.
00:44:46.000 –> 00:44:47.000
And so Jaylen
00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:50.000
He would do a dunk on you and
00:44:50.000 –> 00:44:52.000
get in your face and all of that.
00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:52.000
So,
00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:55.000
I’m working him
00:44:55.000 –> 00:44:56.000
at Northwestern
00:44:57.000 –> 00:44:58.000
And so I,
00:44:59.000 –> 00:45:01.000
I I got so upset with him. I
00:45:01.000 –> 00:45:03.000
grabbed him by the arm, and I took
00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:05.000
him over to Steve. Fisher, Fisher was some
00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:05.000
sin Australia,
00:45:06.000 –> 00:45:07.000
the Centrilla area.
00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:10.000
And so I said coach.
00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:12.000
I said, no,
00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:14.000
I am not gonna have Jaylen.
00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:17.000
I’m I would not call this right. I’m
00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:19.000
not gonna have number thirty four, whatever his
00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:20.000
number was. Yeah. Embarrass
00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:23.000
a player like what he did. He does
00:45:23.000 –> 00:45:24.000
that again.
00:45:25.000 –> 00:45:27.000
I’m gonna throw him out of the game.
00:45:27.000 –> 00:45:29.000
It’s not gonna be just a technical file.
00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:33.000
This is his official warning. Not only Jalen.
00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:35.000
After the game.
00:45:36.000 –> 00:45:36.000
Jalen,
00:45:37.000 –> 00:45:39.000
the, he was doing the interview. Well,
00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:41.000
I noticed that you and,
00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:43.000
referee hightower
00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:47.000
were were having a discussion tonight. What what
00:45:47.000 –> 00:45:48.000
was that all about?
00:45:49.000 –> 00:45:50.000
Only Jaylen.
00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:51.000
Well, you know how
00:45:52.000 –> 00:45:54.000
a principal Hightower is. He thought he was
00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:55.000
back in school,
00:45:55.000 –> 00:45:57.000
and he threatened me with the detention.
00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000
That’s that’s Jaylen.
00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:02.000
And and,
00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:05.000
you know, the coach
00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:08.000
Joan Howard. Yeah. He was my go to
00:46:08.000 –> 00:46:10.000
guy back then, you know,
00:46:11.000 –> 00:46:14.000
I if we had an issue with with
00:46:14.000 –> 00:46:16.000
the rest of the group, which you know,
00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:18.000
there were good times. He no. No. No.
00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:19.000
No. No. No. No. No. No. He was
00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:21.000
to he was to oh, no. Not at
00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:24.000
all. We’d go to to Joanne and say,
00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:27.000
whatever his number was. In twenty five? You
00:46:27.000 –> 00:46:29.000
gotta you gotta take care of this. And
00:46:29.000 –> 00:46:30.000
he would. I mean, he
00:46:31.000 –> 00:46:33.000
you could tell that he was a leader.
00:46:34.000 –> 00:46:35.000
Yeah. He was a leader
00:46:36.000 –> 00:46:38.000
all the way back then.
00:46:39.000 –> 00:46:40.000
And so
00:46:40.000 –> 00:46:42.000
it doesn’t surprise any of us that,
00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:45.000
you know, I know he’s had he had
00:46:45.000 –> 00:46:47.000
some hard time last year and all, but
00:46:47.000 –> 00:46:48.000
that’s okay.
00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:50.000
He’s still a leader. We make mistakes,
00:46:51.000 –> 00:46:53.000
but, he is just a, a wonderful young
00:46:53.000 –> 00:46:55.000
person. So talk about the traits he saw
00:46:55.000 –> 00:46:57.000
and and some of the greatest players that,
00:46:57.000 –> 00:46:59.000
you know, obviously went through college, put in
00:46:59.000 –> 00:47:01.000
the NBA, you saw them all.
00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:03.000
Talk about those trades, but a that to
00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000
the person. Listen this podcast right now. That’s
00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000
in the business world or the education world,
00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:09.000
the medical world, whatever it may be. What
00:47:09.000 –> 00:47:11.000
did you see there that can be applied
00:47:11.000 –> 00:47:12.000
to the to the office.
00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:13.000
Personal Verintz.
00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000
James. Gold setting.
00:47:17.000 –> 00:47:20.000
When it when it when when at the
00:47:20.000 –> 00:47:20.000
toughest
00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:21.000
moment.
00:47:22.000 –> 00:47:24.000
That’s when those individuals
00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:27.000
really showed and demonstrated.
00:47:30.000 –> 00:47:31.000
There’s true
00:47:31.000 –> 00:47:32.000
value system.
00:47:33.000 –> 00:47:36.000
And when I talk about value system, that
00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:36.000
toughness,
00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:40.000
that Gilliland that willingness to
00:47:40.000 –> 00:47:41.000
give a little extra.
00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:46.000
That willingness in and I use this with
00:47:46.000 –> 00:47:47.000
young Gilliland
00:47:47.000 –> 00:47:49.000
getting a little old now. The guy’s name
00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:52.000
was Hersha Hawkins from Bradley. Yeah. He’s one
00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:54.000
of my all time favorite players.
00:47:56.000 –> 00:47:58.000
I asked him once. He was a great
00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:01.000
player. Remember? Yep. He was the eighty eight,
00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:03.000
player of the year over Danny Manage, and
00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:06.000
my first final four with with Kansas. Yeah.
00:48:06.000 –> 00:48:08.000
Well, Danny ended up being the player of
00:48:08.000 –> 00:48:09.000
the year,
00:48:10.000 –> 00:48:11.000
and I never get into who should be
00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000
the player of the new, but Hersha Hawkins
00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:14.000
really should have player of the year that
00:48:14.000 –> 00:48:15.000
year.
00:48:15.000 –> 00:48:17.000
But Hersha Hawkins was one of my all
00:48:17.000 –> 00:48:18.000
time favorites.
00:48:18.000 –> 00:48:20.000
He was one he was one of the
00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:22.000
great jump shooters, as you know.
00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:23.000
So
00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:26.000
we would have to go to be at
00:48:26.000 –> 00:48:27.000
the game
00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:30.000
an hour and a half before game time.
00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:31.000
Okay.
00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:35.000
Hershel Hawkins, if he had missed the game
00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:36.000
before.
00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000
Wherever he missed the shot from,
00:48:41.000 –> 00:48:42.000
That next game,
00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:45.000
at hour and a half before game time,
00:48:46.000 –> 00:48:49.000
the lights aren’t even on yet. He’s out
00:48:49.000 –> 00:48:51.000
there practicing that shot Wow. That he missed.
00:48:52.000 –> 00:48:55.000
And I asked him when I I said,
00:48:55.000 –> 00:48:57.000
I said, I called him Hawk. I said,
00:48:57.000 –> 00:49:00.000
Hawk. I said, man, you you’re a great
00:49:00.000 –> 00:49:00.000
player.
00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:04.000
Why are you
00:49:05.000 –> 00:49:05.000
practicing?
00:49:08.000 –> 00:49:10.000
At an hour and a half before game
00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:11.000
time.
00:49:12.000 –> 00:49:15.000
And you’re coming off, and you’re you’re acting
00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:16.000
as if,
00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:17.000
here’s a screen.
00:49:18.000 –> 00:49:20.000
Here’s the jump shot.
00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:22.000
Why do you do that?
00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:23.000
He says because
00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000
that shot is gonna come up again.
00:49:29.000 –> 00:49:30.000
Now, you take that
00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:32.000
in life.
00:49:32.000 –> 00:49:34.000
You learn from experiences.
00:49:35.000 –> 00:49:38.000
It’s gonna come up again. Yeah. And if
00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:39.000
you’ve rehearsed
00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:39.000
it,
00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:42.000
then you know how to react.
00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:45.000
I used to get in front of a
00:49:45.000 –> 00:49:45.000
mirror
00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:48.000
at home
00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:51.000
and rehearse my mechanics. People used to say,
00:49:51.000 –> 00:49:53.000
boy, hi, Tara. Boy, look at his mechanics.
00:49:54.000 –> 00:49:56.000
That was not by accident.
00:49:57.000 –> 00:50:00.000
You have to everything has to be in
00:50:00.000 –> 00:50:00.000
sync.
00:50:01.000 –> 00:50:03.000
And here’s the thing. When you get into
00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:05.000
that situation,
00:50:05.000 –> 00:50:07.000
you got fifty thousand
00:50:08.000 –> 00:50:09.000
people in the arena
00:50:10.000 –> 00:50:11.000
at a final four.
00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:14.000
You got millions watching.
00:50:14.000 –> 00:50:16.000
You can’t think about it.
00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:18.000
You got to
00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:19.000
react.
00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:22.000
You’re not
00:50:23.000 –> 00:50:26.000
over. You got to react to the situation
00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:27.000
at the moment.
00:50:28.000 –> 00:50:30.000
And that’s life. Mhmm.
00:50:31.000 –> 00:50:32.000
That’s life.
00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:34.000
Solid.
00:50:34.000 –> 00:50:36.000
Man, tons of takeaways.
00:50:37.000 –> 00:50:38.000
Last few questions. So you’re
00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:40.000
I talk about this all the time on
00:50:40.000 –> 00:50:42.000
these podcasts is fears.
00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:45.000
The fears we put in our mind, how
00:50:45.000 –> 00:50:46.000
many of the fears have actually blown up
00:50:46.000 –> 00:50:48.000
to the magnitude you put them in your
00:50:48.000 –> 00:50:49.000
mind to be? Well,
00:50:50.000 –> 00:50:52.000
you know, as a young
00:50:53.000 –> 00:50:53.000
person,
00:50:55.000 –> 00:50:56.000
when I was in
00:50:57.000 –> 00:50:58.000
fourth grade,
00:51:00.000 –> 00:51:01.000
My fourth grade teacher said
00:51:02.000 –> 00:51:04.000
I would never be anything.
00:51:04.000 –> 00:51:05.000
She called me dumb,
00:51:06.000 –> 00:51:08.000
come and retard it.
00:51:09.000 –> 00:51:11.000
In fourth grade in the south.
00:51:12.000 –> 00:51:13.000
My fifth grade teacher,
00:51:15.000 –> 00:51:16.000
miss Jackson,
00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:19.000
She took those spirits away.
00:51:21.000 –> 00:51:21.000
She said,
00:51:22.000 –> 00:51:24.000
you can be anything in anybody you wanna
00:51:24.000 –> 00:51:25.000
be.
00:51:26.000 –> 00:51:27.000
The fear
00:51:27.000 –> 00:51:28.000
is what
00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:31.000
you imagine it to be.
00:51:32.000 –> 00:51:33.000
I never forgot that.
00:51:34.000 –> 00:51:36.000
I never forgot that.
00:51:37.000 –> 00:51:39.000
And with it, I say you prepare
00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:42.000
for that for the
00:51:44.000 –> 00:51:44.000
uncertainties
00:51:45.000 –> 00:51:46.000
And
00:51:46.000 –> 00:51:48.000
when you get into that moment now, let
00:51:48.000 –> 00:51:50.000
me be clear with you.
00:51:50.000 –> 00:51:51.000
Before every gain,
00:51:53.000 –> 00:51:54.000
before every game.
00:51:55.000 –> 00:51:57.000
I don’t care. The
00:51:58.000 –> 00:51:59.000
the magnitude of a game, if it was
00:51:59.000 –> 00:52:03.000
a game with Lewis and Clark, and Bellville
00:52:04.000 –> 00:52:05.000
Swick at that time.
00:52:06.000 –> 00:52:07.000
I’m just using that as an example.
00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:10.000
I would have to go,
00:52:12.000 –> 00:52:14.000
to the restroom. Yeah. I would say that
00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:16.000
prayer before I walked out there because I
00:52:16.000 –> 00:52:18.000
was the nurse those were the nerds.
00:52:18.000 –> 00:52:19.000
But once,
00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:21.000
I threw that ball up.
00:52:22.000 –> 00:52:23.000
No fear.
00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:25.000
Yeah. You’re prepared.
00:52:27.000 –> 00:52:28.000
You’re prepared
00:52:29.000 –> 00:52:30.000
mentally,
00:52:31.000 –> 00:52:32.000
physically.
00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:34.000
You know the rules.
00:52:34.000 –> 00:52:35.000
Yep. And you just react.
00:52:40.000 –> 00:52:41.000
It’s so true. And then, I mean, I
00:52:41.000 –> 00:52:42.000
even said this to Matt right before we
00:52:42.000 –> 00:52:44.000
started recording this.
00:52:44.000 –> 00:52:45.000
You’re
00:52:45.000 –> 00:52:47.000
stepped outside. And I said, you know, it’s
00:52:47.000 –> 00:52:49.000
funny after three hundred and whatever, eighty five
00:52:49.000 –> 00:52:51.000
guests, you still got the little bit of
00:52:51.000 –> 00:52:54.000
the the nerves. Hightower you don’t. If you
00:52:54.000 –> 00:52:55.000
don’t, you don’t care. I mean, I heard
00:52:55.000 –> 00:52:56.000
Tiger would say that. Right? If he goes,
00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:58.000
if the day I stop being nervous on
00:52:58.000 –> 00:53:00.000
the first tee is what I’m Exactly. And,
00:53:00.000 –> 00:53:02.000
exactly. So that that that matters. That matters.
00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:03.000
So,
00:53:04.000 –> 00:53:06.000
let’s see. So when you think about,
00:53:07.000 –> 00:53:08.000
reading, how important has that been in your
00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:09.000
career?
00:53:10.000 –> 00:53:10.000
Oh,
00:53:11.000 –> 00:53:11.000
absolutely.
00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:14.000
You have to, you know, we have a
00:53:14.000 –> 00:53:16.000
we we we have a sand in church.
00:53:17.000 –> 00:53:18.000
You have to study
00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:21.000
to show yourself approved.
00:53:21.000 –> 00:53:23.000
That’s an old saying in church. Well, it’s
00:53:23.000 –> 00:53:25.000
the same thing with education.
00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:27.000
I read a lot.
00:53:28.000 –> 00:53:30.000
I don’t read just to read, but I
00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:31.000
read a ton,
00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:32.000
particularly
00:53:33.000 –> 00:53:34.000
on the subject matters.
00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:37.000
That are important to me. Yeah. Education,
00:53:38.000 –> 00:53:39.000
when I was
00:53:39.000 –> 00:53:40.000
in education,
00:53:41.000 –> 00:53:42.000
I read every
00:53:43.000 –> 00:53:46.000
article I could get my hands on on
00:53:46.000 –> 00:53:46.000
leadership,
00:53:47.000 –> 00:53:48.000
decision making,
00:53:49.000 –> 00:53:50.000
working with kids,
00:53:50.000 –> 00:53:51.000
understanding
00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:52.000
the dynamics
00:53:52.000 –> 00:53:53.000
of what
00:53:54.000 –> 00:53:56.000
I was gonna be faced with. Yep. Refering,
00:53:57.000 –> 00:53:59.000
I knew that rule book
00:54:00.000 –> 00:54:01.000
back in front.
00:54:01.000 –> 00:54:02.000
Leadership,
00:54:02.000 –> 00:54:03.000
I would always
00:54:05.000 –> 00:54:06.000
read articles
00:54:06.000 –> 00:54:07.000
about leadership
00:54:07.000 –> 00:54:09.000
and decision making
00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:10.000
Okay? Because that
00:54:11.000 –> 00:54:12.000
you learn
00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:14.000
if you can just pick up one little
00:54:14.000 –> 00:54:15.000
nugget.
00:54:15.000 –> 00:54:16.000
Yep.
00:54:16.000 –> 00:54:18.000
It’s gonna make you better at what you
00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:19.000
do. Yep.
00:54:19.000 –> 00:54:21.000
So I’ll close with this one. I’m anxious
00:54:21.000 –> 00:54:23.000
to see. I’ve never asked these questions. I
00:54:23.000 –> 00:54:24.000
just read it this morning. So I read
00:54:24.000 –> 00:54:26.000
my my deal is at least ten pages
00:54:26.000 –> 00:54:27.000
a day. Every day. If I can do
00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:28.000
that, you’re gonna read a lot of books.
00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:30.000
Mhmm. And so I read this today, and
00:54:30.000 –> 00:54:31.000
it was it made me think. I sent
00:54:31.000 –> 00:54:33.000
it to a couple buddies, but it said,
00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:35.000
you know, basically be careful of the feedback
00:54:35.000 –> 00:54:37.000
that you take. Not everything is for you.
00:54:37.000 –> 00:54:38.000
Maybe maybe it’s for you, maybe it’s for
00:54:38.000 –> 00:54:40.000
me, but it it may not be for
00:54:40.000 –> 00:54:42.000
both of us. Right? And it said be
00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:42.000
careful
00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:45.000
because the boiling water that hardens the egg
00:54:45.000 –> 00:54:47.000
softens the carrot.
00:54:47.000 –> 00:54:48.000
So when you hear that, what do you
00:54:48.000 –> 00:54:51.000
think? Well, when I when I see that
00:54:51.000 –> 00:54:53.000
in when I when I when I think
00:54:53.000 –> 00:54:54.000
of it, when I see it, when I
00:54:54.000 –> 00:54:55.000
I believe that,
00:54:56.000 –> 00:54:59.000
you listen, you never not listen.
00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:04.000
Okay. Yeah. But you better have
00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:07.000
the intestinal fortitude and the smartness to be
00:55:07.000 –> 00:55:08.000
able to decipher.
00:55:09.000 –> 00:55:12.000
That’s the big difference right there. Yep.
00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:14.000
Mister Harshberger, my eighth grade history teacher said
00:55:14.000 –> 00:55:17.000
you get two ears, one mouth, using proportional.
00:55:17.000 –> 00:55:19.000
You got it. Doctor Ed Hightower. Man, this
00:55:19.000 –> 00:55:21.000
has been an absolute blast. Thanks for being
00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000
with me, man. Pleasure to be on my
00:55:22.000 –> 00:55:23.000
mind, Brett. Thanks for being on the circuit
00:55:23.000 –> 00:55:25.000
of success. You got it, babe. Thank you.
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By BEYOND Media Group
4.8
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?️ Dive into the extraordinary life of Ed Hightower on this heart-pounding episode of Circuit of Success Podcast! ? From humble beginnings in the South to the global stage as a former NCAA basketball referee, Ed shares his riveting journey with host Brett Gilliland. ? Uncover the secrets to Ed’s success as he emphasizes the crucial role of a solid value system and guardrails in staying focused and on track. Get the inside scoop on facing legendary coaches like Bobby Knight and Judd Heathcote, and the invaluable lessons learned by doing the right thing, even when it’s unpopular. Hear firsthand about his experiences representing the United States in international tournaments and the art of staying objective in high-stakes moments. ? Ed’s motivational insights extend beyond the court, urging young people to do the right thing when no one is watching and take ownership of mistakes. Don’t miss out on the incredible anecdotes, including Ed’s unforgettable night at the Final Four dinner in 1989, seated next to none other than the legendary Andy Kaufman! Join us for an inspiring conversation with a true game-changer. Ed Hightower’s story is a beacon of hard work, dedication, and resilience—packed with timeless lessons applicable to everyone. #EdHightower #NCAAReferee #CircuitOfSuccess
Full Youtube Episode
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Welcome to the Circuit of Success. I’m your host
00:00:15.000 –> 00:00:18.000
Brett Gilliland. And today, I’ve got Ed Hightower
00:00:18.000 –> 00:00:19.000
with me. Ed, how you doing? Oh, the
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pleasure is all mine, Brett. It’s good to
00:00:21.000 –> 00:00:22.000
be with you. It’s good to be with
00:00:22.000 –> 00:00:23.000
you. So,
00:00:24.000 –> 00:00:26.000
well, people that don’t know. You probably, everybody’s
00:00:26.000 –> 00:00:27.000
watching this knows who are. I mean, you’ve
00:00:27.000 –> 00:00:28.000
had a heck of a career. Well, I’ve
00:00:28.000 –> 00:00:30.000
been very fortunate. I’ve had a lot of
00:00:30.000 –> 00:00:32.000
support along the way, and,
00:00:32.000 –> 00:00:36.000
very, very blessed. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. So former
00:00:36.000 –> 00:00:38.000
superintendent at Edwardsville Hightower school, nineteen years in
00:00:38.000 –> 00:00:40.000
Edwardsville, but forty years in education.
00:00:41.000 –> 00:00:42.000
Forty years in education. In,
00:00:43.000 –> 00:00:46.000
nineteen years, a superintendent update at Whisfield School
00:00:46.000 –> 00:00:49.000
District. I went there in nineteen ninety Gilliland
00:00:49.000 –> 00:00:49.000
retired.
00:00:50.000 –> 00:00:53.000
In two thousand fifteen. So Amazing. In, thirty
00:00:53.000 –> 00:00:56.000
six years, is an NCAA referee? Thirty six
00:00:56.000 –> 00:00:59.000
years as an NC Yagate referee, thirty three
00:00:59.000 –> 00:01:01.000
years in the Big 10:12
00:01:01.000 –> 00:01:04.000
final fours, the World Games. Man,
00:01:05.000 –> 00:01:07.000
representative of the United States at the World
00:01:07.000 –> 00:01:08.000
Games in Bonazaris,
00:01:09.000 –> 00:01:11.000
a representative of the United States at the
00:01:11.000 –> 00:01:14.000
Good World Games in, Saint Petersburg so I
00:01:14.000 –> 00:01:17.000
was very, very fortunate. That’s incredible. Incredible. I
00:01:17.000 –> 00:01:19.000
remember you in my, fighting a Lineite days
00:01:19.000 –> 00:01:21.000
when I was, you know, younger man and
00:01:21.000 –> 00:01:23.000
and watch to my my flying line item,
00:01:23.000 –> 00:01:24.000
which we I wanna talk about that later
00:01:24.000 –> 00:01:26.000
if that’s alright. So but if you can,
00:01:27.000 –> 00:01:28.000
Ed, give us a little lay of the
00:01:28.000 –> 00:01:29.000
lay in the story. You don’t just wake
00:01:29.000 –> 00:01:31.000
up and spend forty years and get your
00:01:31.000 –> 00:01:33.000
doctorate and, you know, have an amazing marriage
00:01:33.000 –> 00:01:35.000
of forty nine years, two daughters, NCAA AA,
00:01:35.000 –> 00:01:37.000
all the stuff that we just mentioned. But
00:01:37.000 –> 00:01:39.000
what’s what’s some of that backstory? Some of
00:01:39.000 –> 00:01:40.000
your stories? Well, back story, you know, I’m
00:01:40.000 –> 00:01:41.000
just one of these,
00:01:43.000 –> 00:01:44.000
young individuals,
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very fortunate.
00:01:46.000 –> 00:01:48.000
I grew up in the south.
00:01:48.000 –> 00:01:50.000
My mom and and,
00:01:50.000 –> 00:01:52.000
dad, divorced when I was twelve years old.
00:01:52.000 –> 00:01:56.000
I’m the second of eight Children, I never
00:01:56.000 –> 00:01:58.000
thought that, I would complete,
00:01:59.000 –> 00:02:02.000
even a high school education when I was
00:02:02.000 –> 00:02:03.000
in the south.
00:02:04.000 –> 00:02:06.000
Things were tough. My mom
00:02:07.000 –> 00:02:07.000
moved,
00:02:08.000 –> 00:02:11.000
to Alton, Illinois in nineteen,
00:02:11.000 –> 00:02:12.000
sixty six.
00:02:13.000 –> 00:02:13.000
And,
00:02:15.000 –> 00:02:17.000
she always made education a priority,
00:02:18.000 –> 00:02:20.000
education church, given back to the community a
00:02:20.000 –> 00:02:21.000
priority.
00:02:22.000 –> 00:02:23.000
For all eight of us,
00:02:24.000 –> 00:02:24.000
siblings.
00:02:24.000 –> 00:02:27.000
Yeah. And, we were very fortunate. And from
00:02:27.000 –> 00:02:28.000
that point,
00:02:30.000 –> 00:02:31.000
played basketball,
00:02:31.000 –> 00:02:33.000
baseball at Alton High School,
00:02:34.000 –> 00:02:37.000
nineteen seventy. I graduated and went to s
00:02:37.000 –> 00:02:40.000
I u e on a basketball scholarship plate
00:02:40.000 –> 00:02:42.000
for the cougars. I know that. And started
00:02:42.000 –> 00:02:46.000
refereeing intramural basketballs with these poor kids,
00:02:46.000 –> 00:02:49.000
didn’t have any money, but, start refereeing intramural
00:02:49.000 –> 00:02:50.000
basketball,
00:02:51.000 –> 00:02:53.000
in nineteen seventy one for a dollar and
00:02:53.000 –> 00:02:55.000
twenty five cents a game. Think about that
00:02:55.000 –> 00:02:57.000
one for a moment. Man.
00:02:57.000 –> 00:02:57.000
And,
00:02:58.000 –> 00:02:59.000
I’d watch,
00:02:59.000 –> 00:03:01.000
you know, I I had no,
00:03:02.000 –> 00:03:05.000
relationship with officials when I when I played.
00:03:05.000 –> 00:03:06.000
But,
00:03:06.000 –> 00:03:08.000
you know, when you can,
00:03:08.000 –> 00:03:09.000
referee,
00:03:09.000 –> 00:03:11.000
the various fraternities,
00:03:12.000 –> 00:03:13.000
in college
00:03:13.000 –> 00:03:15.000
and some of those guys who think that
00:03:15.000 –> 00:03:17.000
they were the best players ever, and some
00:03:17.000 –> 00:03:18.000
of those guys who never could play. Yeah.
00:03:19.000 –> 00:03:20.000
You you get a a mix and a
00:03:20.000 –> 00:03:21.000
variance of,
00:03:23.000 –> 00:03:25.000
my term is better than your fraternity.
00:03:25.000 –> 00:03:26.000
There you go.
00:03:26.000 –> 00:03:27.000
And so I graduated,
00:03:28.000 –> 00:03:30.000
in nineteen seventy four, I started teaching. My
00:03:30.000 –> 00:03:32.000
wife and I were married, and then I
00:03:32.000 –> 00:03:34.000
got a raise for refereeing.
00:03:35.000 –> 00:03:36.000
I start, refereeing,
00:03:36.000 –> 00:03:38.000
open city league recreation
00:03:38.000 –> 00:03:40.000
basketball, and, I got a raise from a
00:03:40.000 –> 00:03:43.000
dollar twenty five cents a game to, five
00:03:43.000 –> 00:03:44.000
dollars a game.
00:03:44.000 –> 00:03:45.000
Oh. So I was in I was in
00:03:45.000 –> 00:03:46.000
seven heaven.
00:03:48.000 –> 00:03:50.000
Five times more money. You got it in.
00:03:50.000 –> 00:03:51.000
I would work three games,
00:03:52.000 –> 00:03:53.000
three games a night,
00:03:53.000 –> 00:03:55.000
three times a week. Shit.
00:03:55.000 –> 00:03:56.000
It had nineteen,
00:03:57.000 –> 00:03:59.000
seventy four. That was pretty good money. You
00:03:59.000 –> 00:04:01.000
know, a good nice supplement. You know? Yeah.
00:04:01.000 –> 00:04:01.000
Absolutely.
00:04:02.000 –> 00:04:03.000
And from that point,
00:04:04.000 –> 00:04:05.000
It just happened,
00:04:05.000 –> 00:04:06.000
at the same time.
00:04:07.000 –> 00:04:09.000
I was back at SAW working on my,
00:04:09.000 –> 00:04:10.000
my master’s
00:04:11.000 –> 00:04:11.000
in education
00:04:12.000 –> 00:04:13.000
to become an administrator.
00:04:14.000 –> 00:04:17.000
I got that. I was very fortunate to
00:04:17.000 –> 00:04:17.000
have had,
00:04:18.000 –> 00:04:20.000
a great mentor,
00:04:21.000 –> 00:04:22.000
in the superintendent.
00:04:23.000 –> 00:04:25.000
Who took me on his wings,
00:04:25.000 –> 00:04:26.000
this young,
00:04:27.000 –> 00:04:28.000
African American kid, and,
00:04:30.000 –> 00:04:33.000
and, I went into administration a very young
00:04:33.000 –> 00:04:34.000
age. Okay. Yeah. And,
00:04:35.000 –> 00:04:38.000
I’ll tell you, Brett of the forty years.
00:04:38.000 –> 00:04:39.000
I spent in,
00:04:39.000 –> 00:04:40.000
education
00:04:41.000 –> 00:04:44.000
thirty seven of those years were actually in
00:04:44.000 –> 00:04:46.000
administration. Oh my goodness. So I had a
00:04:46.000 –> 00:04:48.000
lot I had a lot of opportunities
00:04:48.000 –> 00:04:50.000
to screw it up and make mistakes. Exactly.
00:04:51.000 –> 00:04:51.000
Exactly.
00:04:51.000 –> 00:04:53.000
So what what were your expectations like? So
00:04:53.000 –> 00:04:54.000
you said you grew up in the south,
00:04:54.000 –> 00:04:56.000
didn’t have any money, but yet, I would
00:04:56.000 –> 00:04:59.000
think to do that, your expectations were high.
00:04:59.000 –> 00:05:02.000
Expect taste expectations are extremely high that you
00:05:02.000 –> 00:05:03.000
have to work.
00:05:04.000 –> 00:05:07.000
You had to work. My mom and still,
00:05:08.000 –> 00:05:11.000
work ethic in in all of us Yeah.
00:05:11.000 –> 00:05:11.000
That,
00:05:13.000 –> 00:05:15.000
that there was no compromise. What did she
00:05:15.000 –> 00:05:17.000
do for a living? Oh, gosh. She,
00:05:17.000 –> 00:05:18.000
worked in the fields,
00:05:19.000 –> 00:05:20.000
cotton fields,
00:05:21.000 –> 00:05:23.000
She was a nurse. She went back and
00:05:23.000 –> 00:05:26.000
got, her certificate to be a nurse.
00:05:26.000 –> 00:05:29.000
And, and then, of course, when we moved
00:05:29.000 –> 00:05:32.000
here in sixty six, She worked at Olin,
00:05:33.000 –> 00:05:36.000
industry where money was, plenty for, work was
00:05:36.000 –> 00:05:39.000
plenty for, and she was able to care
00:05:39.000 –> 00:05:42.000
for us, but our value system was simple.
00:05:43.000 –> 00:05:44.000
Work,
00:05:44.000 –> 00:05:45.000
be honest,
00:05:46.000 –> 00:05:46.000
go to church,
00:05:47.000 –> 00:05:48.000
give something back.
00:05:49.000 –> 00:05:52.000
It’s simple. And World needs that. Right? It’s
00:05:52.000 –> 00:05:55.000
so simple. And, I never forgot that. And
00:05:55.000 –> 00:05:57.000
that’s what I believe in today, and that’s
00:05:58.000 –> 00:05:59.000
we brought up our daughters.
00:06:00.000 –> 00:06:03.000
That’s the message that I send clearly
00:06:04.000 –> 00:06:04.000
to young people.
00:06:05.000 –> 00:06:06.000
I’ve sent
00:06:06.000 –> 00:06:08.000
over my years.
00:06:08.000 –> 00:06:09.000
And,
00:06:10.000 –> 00:06:12.000
even now, I’m heavily involved,
00:06:13.000 –> 00:06:13.000
with,
00:06:14.000 –> 00:06:15.000
two
00:06:15.000 –> 00:06:16.000
projects,
00:06:16.000 –> 00:06:17.000
and building forty,
00:06:18.000 –> 00:06:20.000
affordable houses in Alton,
00:06:21.000 –> 00:06:22.000
starting March,
00:06:23.000 –> 00:06:25.000
and I put together a white people to
00:06:25.000 –> 00:06:25.000
revitalize,
00:06:26.000 –> 00:06:27.000
Venice.
00:06:29.000 –> 00:06:30.000
You know, that community,
00:06:31.000 –> 00:06:31.000
low income,
00:06:32.000 –> 00:06:33.000
poverty stricken, driven,
00:06:35.000 –> 00:06:37.000
no grocery store, no healthcare facilities.
00:06:38.000 –> 00:06:40.000
We were fortunate to get them a new
00:06:40.000 –> 00:06:44.000
elementary school, which, we will break ground there.
00:06:44.000 –> 00:06:45.000
In March,
00:06:46.000 –> 00:06:49.000
about twenty four, twenty six million dollars thanks
00:06:49.000 –> 00:06:50.000
to our legislators.
00:06:50.000 –> 00:06:53.000
We’re working them a grocery store. We’re working
00:06:53.000 –> 00:06:56.000
to get them a healthcare sit, facility.
00:06:57.000 –> 00:07:00.000
And then, we’re gonna put forty homes there.
00:07:01.000 –> 00:07:04.000
We’re working to bring in a rec center
00:07:04.000 –> 00:07:06.000
for the young people there. So again,
00:07:06.000 –> 00:07:08.000
given back to the community,
00:07:09.000 –> 00:07:12.000
The second initiative that, I have going now.
00:07:14.000 –> 00:07:17.000
For the Madison High School, students, we’ve started
00:07:17.000 –> 00:07:19.000
a Sky bullshit fund
00:07:20.000 –> 00:07:22.000
for those high school students,
00:07:23.000 –> 00:07:26.000
whereby we will be able to give
00:07:26.000 –> 00:07:27.000
anywhere from,
00:07:29.000 –> 00:07:31.000
three to five two thousand dollars scholarships,
00:07:33.000 –> 00:07:34.000
each year beginning,
00:07:35.000 –> 00:07:35.000
and,
00:07:36.000 –> 00:07:37.000
twenty four.
00:07:37.000 –> 00:07:39.000
So, you know, again, I’m,
00:07:39.000 –> 00:07:40.000
pretty,
00:07:40.000 –> 00:07:42.000
pretty patient. But but, you know, the the
00:07:42.000 –> 00:07:45.000
the thing, it’s all on my time.
00:07:46.000 –> 00:07:48.000
You know, it’s not like I have to
00:07:48.000 –> 00:07:50.000
punch a clock now. It’s not like I’ve
00:07:50.000 –> 00:07:52.000
got When I was superintendent,
00:07:52.000 –> 00:07:54.000
I had seven thousand six hundred students in
00:07:54.000 –> 00:07:56.000
the Atmos School District,
00:07:56.000 –> 00:07:57.000
and parents,
00:07:58.000 –> 00:07:59.000
very demanding.
00:08:00.000 –> 00:08:02.000
And so I don’t have the parents screaming
00:08:02.000 –> 00:08:04.000
and hollering at me. I missed the kids.
00:08:04.000 –> 00:08:06.000
Same thing with her friend. I don’t have
00:08:07.000 –> 00:08:09.000
folks like you from the whole line eye
00:08:09.000 –> 00:08:11.000
screaming and holler net. That’s a terrible call.
00:08:11.000 –> 00:08:14.000
That was a terrible call. Hightower. You you
00:08:14.000 –> 00:08:16.000
know, you hate Illinois. Right? Oh, you know,
00:08:16.000 –> 00:08:18.000
and then I go to Michigan. You hate
00:08:18.000 –> 00:08:20.000
Michigan? I hate Michigan. You know, I hate,
00:08:20.000 –> 00:08:20.000
you know,
00:08:21.000 –> 00:08:23.000
So, you know, I don’t have that now.
00:08:23.000 –> 00:08:25.000
You know, I just wake up and do
00:08:25.000 –> 00:08:26.000
the kinds of things that,
00:08:27.000 –> 00:08:28.000
that meets
00:08:28.000 –> 00:08:30.000
my value system
00:08:30.000 –> 00:08:33.000
of giving back and, and so on. Then
00:08:33.000 –> 00:08:36.000
during the wintertime, my wife and I, forty
00:08:36.000 –> 00:08:37.000
nine years,
00:08:38.000 –> 00:08:38.000
we,
00:08:39.000 –> 00:08:42.000
I go to Florida and, spend time there.
00:08:42.000 –> 00:08:44.000
So Where can that golf game? I do.
00:08:44.000 –> 00:08:46.000
What’s the handicap? My handicap is a seven.
00:08:47.000 –> 00:08:47.000
My index
00:08:48.000 –> 00:08:51.000
found. My index is, is about an eight,
00:08:52.000 –> 00:08:54.000
seven out at Sunset Country Club. So, yeah,
00:08:54.000 –> 00:08:57.000
so, you know, so Yeah. The the the
00:08:57.000 –> 00:08:58.000
the golf has improved
00:08:59.000 –> 00:09:01.000
since I retired because I was I’m not
00:09:01.000 –> 00:09:03.000
on a I’m not on a phone all
00:09:03.000 –> 00:09:05.000
the time. Yeah. Check this email resolve that
00:09:05.000 –> 00:09:07.000
message and do all that. So, you know,
00:09:07.000 –> 00:09:08.000
here’s the thing I you’ve mentioned a couple
00:09:08.000 –> 00:09:11.000
times is your values organization. Right? So your
00:09:11.000 –> 00:09:13.000
values, I think we think of as an
00:09:13.000 –> 00:09:15.000
organization We had to be values aligned and
00:09:15.000 –> 00:09:17.000
mission aligned. And and what I have found
00:09:17.000 –> 00:09:19.000
through my twenty two, twenty three year career
00:09:19.000 –> 00:09:21.000
is when those things are aligned, good things
00:09:21.000 –> 00:09:24.000
happen. Right? Absolutely. But when they’re not, bad
00:09:24.000 –> 00:09:25.000
things happen. Right? Absolutely.
00:09:25.000 –> 00:09:27.000
Because be and and the reason,
00:09:29.000 –> 00:09:30.000
there are no guardrails.
00:09:31.000 –> 00:09:34.000
When you when your when your value system
00:09:35.000 –> 00:09:36.000
is a line, there are guardrails that
00:09:37.000 –> 00:09:37.000
keeps
00:09:40.000 –> 00:09:44.000
that keep you focused. Yeah. You know, when
00:09:44.000 –> 00:09:44.000
I
00:09:45.000 –> 00:09:46.000
refereed,
00:09:46.000 –> 00:09:49.000
when I represented the United States, I remember
00:09:49.000 –> 00:09:50.000
this
00:09:50.000 –> 00:09:52.000
so vividly.
00:09:53.000 –> 00:09:55.000
My my first trip
00:09:57.000 –> 00:09:59.000
to the world games. That was the first
00:09:59.000 –> 00:10:01.000
time that, I mean, I’m on major,
00:10:03.000 –> 00:10:04.000
international stage.
00:10:06.000 –> 00:10:08.000
Mike Kachevsky was the coach
00:10:09.000 –> 00:10:10.000
of the US team.
00:10:11.000 –> 00:10:12.000
I’m never free.
00:10:14.000 –> 00:10:15.000
What an awesome responsibility
00:10:16.000 –> 00:10:18.000
to represent your country?
00:10:19.000 –> 00:10:22.000
And as you as they prepare you to
00:10:22.000 –> 00:10:23.000
go
00:10:23.000 –> 00:10:24.000
to,
00:10:25.000 –> 00:10:28.000
setting like what my first trip was.
00:10:28.000 –> 00:10:31.000
They tell you, it’s not if
00:10:31.000 –> 00:10:32.000
you’re gonna be proposition.
00:10:34.000 –> 00:10:35.000
It’s when.
00:10:36.000 –> 00:10:37.000
And
00:10:38.000 –> 00:10:39.000
The
00:10:40.000 –> 00:10:42.000
simple answer is, just say no.
00:10:43.000 –> 00:10:45.000
It it walks to double proposition to do
00:10:45.000 –> 00:10:47.000
what? A proposition given money.
00:10:48.000 –> 00:10:48.000
Yeah.
00:10:50.000 –> 00:10:50.000
To
00:10:52.000 –> 00:10:53.000
Make a different call. Make a different different
00:10:53.000 –> 00:10:57.000
call or something like that. So, yeah, those
00:10:57.000 –> 00:10:57.000
all of those,
00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:00.000
tangibles
00:11:00.000 –> 00:11:01.000
are
00:11:01.000 –> 00:11:03.000
there to incentivize
00:11:03.000 –> 00:11:06.000
you to do the wrong things. Right. But
00:11:06.000 –> 00:11:09.000
if your value system is in check,
00:11:10.000 –> 00:11:12.000
you’re gonna do the right things when people
00:11:12.000 –> 00:11:13.000
aren’t around.
00:11:15.000 –> 00:11:17.000
And that’s the key thing I tell young
00:11:17.000 –> 00:11:17.000
people.
00:11:18.000 –> 00:11:20.000
Don’t get caught up with just doing the
00:11:20.000 –> 00:11:21.000
right things
00:11:22.000 –> 00:11:22.000
when,
00:11:23.000 –> 00:11:24.000
or the right thing when
00:11:25.000 –> 00:11:28.000
somebody’s watching you. The big test is can
00:11:28.000 –> 00:11:29.000
you
00:11:29.000 –> 00:11:32.000
do the right thing or the right things
00:11:32.000 –> 00:11:36.000
when people aren’t Yep. And that’s where
00:11:36.000 –> 00:11:40.000
the value system comes into play. The safeguards,
00:11:40.000 –> 00:11:43.000
the safe rails, guardrails are there.
00:11:43.000 –> 00:11:45.000
To keep you
00:11:45.000 –> 00:11:45.000
centered
00:11:46.000 –> 00:11:48.000
and keep you, keep your eye on the
00:11:48.000 –> 00:11:50.000
mark, and so on, and you don’t get
00:11:50.000 –> 00:11:51.000
sidelined.
00:11:51.000 –> 00:11:54.000
Yep. So it’s, my buddy Steve went off
00:11:54.000 –> 00:11:55.000
when we were talking last night. I told
00:11:55.000 –> 00:11:57.000
him that you were coming on, and he’s
00:11:57.000 –> 00:11:59.000
a big basketball guy. And so shout out
00:11:59.000 –> 00:12:01.000
to Steve, but He’s like, how do you
00:12:01.000 –> 00:12:02.000
handle up objectivity?
00:12:03.000 –> 00:12:05.000
Surely there were some coaches or programs or
00:12:05.000 –> 00:12:07.000
players that were harder to you know, you
00:12:07.000 –> 00:12:09.000
know, they were gonna be on you the
00:12:09.000 –> 00:12:10.000
whole time. Right? And and so how did
00:12:10.000 –> 00:12:12.000
you stay objective with that of not trying
00:12:12.000 –> 00:12:14.000
to choose sides or when you go represent
00:12:14.000 –> 00:12:16.000
America to not say, I wanna, you know,
00:12:16.000 –> 00:12:18.000
I want my guys to win. The guardrails.
00:12:18.000 –> 00:12:20.000
Yep. Yeah. Again, the value system,
00:12:21.000 –> 00:12:22.000
honesty, integrity,
00:12:23.000 –> 00:12:26.000
hard work. Yeah. And, that you put those
00:12:26.000 –> 00:12:28.000
all in that, as a potpourri.
00:12:29.000 –> 00:12:31.000
Guess what’s gonna come out? Hence why you
00:12:31.000 –> 00:12:32.000
did twelve,
00:12:32.000 –> 00:12:34.000
final four. You got it. Yeah. And and,
00:12:34.000 –> 00:12:34.000
you know,
00:12:35.000 –> 00:12:38.000
coach Knight and I were very close. Yeah.
00:12:38.000 –> 00:12:39.000
A lot of people don’t know that. We
00:12:39.000 –> 00:12:40.000
talked
00:12:41.000 –> 00:12:43.000
you know, we would bump heads on the
00:12:43.000 –> 00:12:43.000
floor.
00:12:44.000 –> 00:12:45.000
But,
00:12:45.000 –> 00:12:47.000
off the floor, we would talk,
00:12:48.000 –> 00:12:49.000
we talked a lot
00:12:49.000 –> 00:12:51.000
about education, about young people,
00:12:52.000 –> 00:12:54.000
one of the smartest individuals you ever wanna
00:12:54.000 –> 00:12:55.000
be around.
00:12:56.000 –> 00:12:56.000
And,
00:12:58.000 –> 00:12:58.000
guardrails.
00:12:59.000 –> 00:12:59.000
Okay.
00:13:00.000 –> 00:13:02.000
You always know that
00:13:05.000 –> 00:13:06.000
going into that game,
00:13:08.000 –> 00:13:10.000
you have to be
00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:12.000
not subjective,
00:13:13.000 –> 00:13:16.000
but objective. You see it you call it
00:13:17.000 –> 00:13:19.000
and let the chips fall where they may.
00:13:19.000 –> 00:13:22.000
But by the same token you there to
00:13:22.000 –> 00:13:26.000
lend a hand as as to both sides.
00:13:26.000 –> 00:13:27.000
And when I say that,
00:13:28.000 –> 00:13:30.000
I would go to, say, coach Knight, for
00:13:30.000 –> 00:13:32.000
example, and say, Hey.
00:13:33.000 –> 00:13:34.000
Number fifty four,
00:13:35.000 –> 00:13:36.000
He’s got his hands on him.
00:13:37.000 –> 00:13:40.000
Yep. Now I’m telling you to take care
00:13:40.000 –> 00:13:41.000
of it. If you don’t take care of
00:13:41.000 –> 00:13:43.000
it, you’re gonna take care of it. Alright.
00:13:43.000 –> 00:13:46.000
Then you go down to the other end,
00:13:46.000 –> 00:13:47.000
Michigan State,
00:13:48.000 –> 00:13:51.000
at that time, Judd Heathco. Yeah. Are, I’m
00:13:51.000 –> 00:13:53.000
gonna tell you a little story about Lou
00:13:53.000 –> 00:13:55.000
Henson in just a moment, but
00:13:55.000 –> 00:13:57.000
you would do the same thing on the
00:13:57.000 –> 00:14:00.000
Gilliland the coaches know that. And they respect
00:14:00.000 –> 00:14:04.000
you, and they know when that game is
00:14:04.000 –> 00:14:05.000
on the line.
00:14:06.000 –> 00:14:08.000
They can trust you to do the right
00:14:08.000 –> 00:14:11.000
thing. Yeah. It goes back through what I
00:14:11.000 –> 00:14:13.000
said earlier, the right thing.
00:14:14.000 –> 00:14:16.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna make mistakes.
00:14:17.000 –> 00:14:19.000
Not that you you aren’t gonna miss a
00:14:19.000 –> 00:14:19.000
call,
00:14:20.000 –> 00:14:23.000
but they trust you to do the right
00:14:23.000 –> 00:14:23.000
thing.
00:14:24.000 –> 00:14:26.000
Lou Henson played a very,
00:14:27.000 –> 00:14:30.000
important role in Ed Hightower getting to the
00:14:30.000 –> 00:14:31.000
big ten, and I never knew about it
00:14:31.000 –> 00:14:32.000
until
00:14:32.000 –> 00:14:35.000
six years after I was in the big
00:14:35.000 –> 00:14:37.000
ten, after I became a crew chief.
00:14:39.000 –> 00:14:42.000
Lou Henson was in this area, recruiting.
00:14:43.000 –> 00:14:45.000
Saw me referee in a high school basketball
00:14:45.000 –> 00:14:46.000
game.
00:14:48.000 –> 00:14:49.000
Called a big ten,
00:14:50.000 –> 00:14:52.000
Wow. The next day and said, I mean,
00:14:52.000 –> 00:14:52.000
tell you,
00:14:53.000 –> 00:14:55.000
I saw this young African American.
00:14:56.000 –> 00:14:58.000
He is gonna be good.
00:14:59.000 –> 00:15:01.000
You need to get someone down there and
00:15:01.000 –> 00:15:03.000
take a look at this guy and start
00:15:03.000 –> 00:15:07.000
tracking him. He’s gonna be good. And somebody
00:15:07.000 –> 00:15:10.000
is gonna get him. Another league is gonna
00:15:10.000 –> 00:15:13.000
get him, you need to take a look.
00:15:13.000 –> 00:15:15.000
Well, lo and behold,
00:15:15.000 –> 00:15:16.000
I’m twenty
00:15:16.000 –> 00:15:19.000
five years old. I go to my first
00:15:19.000 –> 00:15:21.000
camp at Michigan State, Big Ten Camp.
00:15:24.000 –> 00:15:26.000
Out of a hundred and ten
00:15:26.000 –> 00:15:27.000
campers,
00:15:28.000 –> 00:15:29.000
they only took two
00:15:32.000 –> 00:15:32.000
campers
00:15:33.000 –> 00:15:35.000
and added us to what they used to
00:15:35.000 –> 00:15:38.000
call in the Big Ten, our satellite crew.
00:15:38.000 –> 00:15:40.000
That was the
00:15:40.000 –> 00:15:41.000
officials
00:15:41.000 –> 00:15:44.000
that they would hire at that time at
00:15:44.000 –> 00:15:46.000
a Western Illinois university, which was a division
00:15:46.000 –> 00:15:48.000
two Eastern
00:15:48.000 –> 00:15:49.000
Northern Iowa
00:15:50.000 –> 00:15:53.000
Okay? And they would track your experience.
00:15:53.000 –> 00:15:56.000
You got it. Yeah. And then from that
00:15:56.000 –> 00:15:56.000
point,
00:15:57.000 –> 00:15:59.000
two years later,
00:16:01.000 –> 00:16:03.000
the supervisor of the Big Ten called the
00:16:03.000 –> 00:16:05.000
Missouri Valley and said, look,
00:16:06.000 –> 00:16:08.000
we’ve got this young kid And again, I
00:16:08.000 –> 00:16:10.000
don’t know this at the time. I know,
00:16:10.000 –> 00:16:12.000
as they say, I know nothing.
00:16:12.000 –> 00:16:15.000
He’s getting the Gilliland security. Exactly.
00:16:15.000 –> 00:16:16.000
So,
00:16:17.000 –> 00:16:20.000
I was at, I was selected to do
00:16:20.000 –> 00:16:22.000
the National Jukot Tournament.
00:16:23.000 –> 00:16:25.000
I am now twenty
00:16:25.000 –> 00:16:26.000
seven years old.
00:16:27.000 –> 00:16:30.000
The National Duke Oak tournament in Hutchison, Kansas.
00:16:31.000 –> 00:16:32.000
And,
00:16:32.000 –> 00:16:33.000
Johnny Overbe,
00:16:33.000 –> 00:16:35.000
who was the Missouri Valley,
00:16:36.000 –> 00:16:37.000
supervisor.
00:16:38.000 –> 00:16:40.000
I didn’t know he was at the game.
00:16:40.000 –> 00:16:44.000
He sat and watch me work for three
00:16:44.000 –> 00:16:45.000
days in a row.
00:16:46.000 –> 00:16:46.000
Okay.
00:16:47.000 –> 00:16:47.000
And,
00:16:48.000 –> 00:16:48.000
with that,
00:16:51.000 –> 00:16:54.000
He came in that third night after the
00:16:54.000 –> 00:16:55.000
game and said, I’ve watched you,
00:16:56.000 –> 00:16:57.000
three days.
00:16:58.000 –> 00:17:00.000
I wanna bring you into the Missouri Valley.
00:17:01.000 –> 00:17:03.000
Brought me into the Missouri Valley.
00:17:04.000 –> 00:17:09.000
You know, I fool some Gilliland,
00:17:10.000 –> 00:17:12.000
I worked there two years in the Missouri
00:17:12.000 –> 00:17:14.000
Gilliland then a big ten,
00:17:15.000 –> 00:17:15.000
set at,
00:17:16.000 –> 00:17:18.000
I We’re gonna bring you and put you
00:17:18.000 –> 00:17:20.000
on a crew. So they put me on
00:17:20.000 –> 00:17:22.000
a crew at twenty nine years old
00:17:22.000 –> 00:17:24.000
on a now you think about this.
00:17:24.000 –> 00:17:25.000
Now,
00:17:26.000 –> 00:17:27.000
That’s young. That young?
00:17:28.000 –> 00:17:31.000
Yeah. That is too young. Okay. That’s Okay.
00:17:31.000 –> 00:17:32.000
T
00:17:32.000 –> 00:17:35.000
o o, too young. Right.
00:17:35.000 –> 00:17:38.000
And, but I was very fortunate.
00:17:40.000 –> 00:17:42.000
I walked in and let me tell you,
00:17:43.000 –> 00:17:44.000
you think you’re ready.
00:17:45.000 –> 00:17:47.000
Well, you find quickly when you walk into
00:17:47.000 –> 00:17:49.000
an Illinois and you’ve got fourteen thousand
00:17:50.000 –> 00:17:54.000
crazies there on crosses on you majorly.
00:17:55.000 –> 00:17:57.000
Or you go to Gilliland,
00:17:57.000 –> 00:17:59.000
and you got sixteen thousand people there, a
00:17:59.000 –> 00:18:02.000
sea of red. Yeah. And at that time,
00:18:02.000 –> 00:18:03.000
you know, coach Hightower was just like a
00:18:03.000 –> 00:18:07.000
giant. He was a giant in the game
00:18:07.000 –> 00:18:08.000
and a big man
00:18:09.000 –> 00:18:11.000
to to boot. I had seen him on
00:18:11.000 –> 00:18:14.000
TV, but I did not know him.
00:18:14.000 –> 00:18:17.000
Okay? Mhmm. So I go out there, but
00:18:17.000 –> 00:18:18.000
I had been told
00:18:18.000 –> 00:18:19.000
by,
00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:20.000
another,
00:18:21.000 –> 00:18:22.000
prominent
00:18:23.000 –> 00:18:25.000
veteran referee. His name was Jim Bane. Oh
00:18:25.000 –> 00:18:27.000
my gosh. That’s so crazy. See, you’re not
00:18:27.000 –> 00:18:29.000
gonna believe this. I thought you’re gonna say
00:18:29.000 –> 00:18:30.000
this. He was my neighbor growing up in
00:18:30.000 –> 00:18:33.000
Matune, Illinois. Are you kidding me? Oh my
00:18:33.000 –> 00:18:36.000
gosh. Well, Jim Baine was my mentor. He’s
00:18:36.000 –> 00:18:38.000
literally one of the things I was gonna
00:18:38.000 –> 00:18:40.000
bring Jim. Jim Bane. Yeah. Jim Bane,
00:18:41.000 –> 00:18:44.000
Matune. You’re Hightower. Banker and all, well, Jim
00:18:44.000 –> 00:18:46.000
and I. Jim and I used to fly.
00:18:46.000 –> 00:18:47.000
So funny. Jim was a pilot.
00:18:48.000 –> 00:18:51.000
At one time. I leased an airplane,
00:18:51.000 –> 00:18:54.000
and had someone flying me around. And we
00:18:54.000 –> 00:18:56.000
would hook up. I’d go to Decatur, pick
00:18:56.000 –> 00:18:58.000
him up, depending on where we’re going. But
00:18:58.000 –> 00:18:59.000
the
00:19:00.000 –> 00:19:00.000
the the
00:19:01.000 –> 00:19:02.000
he
00:19:02.000 –> 00:19:03.000
initiation
00:19:03.000 –> 00:19:04.000
to the big ten,
00:19:05.000 –> 00:19:05.000
Jim
00:19:06.000 –> 00:19:07.000
I talk I would talk to him all
00:19:07.000 –> 00:19:09.000
of the time. And I said, Jim, tell
00:19:09.000 –> 00:19:11.000
me, how do you heal
00:19:12.000 –> 00:19:13.000
a coach knight?
00:19:14.000 –> 00:19:15.000
How do you heal?
00:19:16.000 –> 00:19:17.000
And he says, and he used to call
00:19:17.000 –> 00:19:18.000
me Eddie. Eddie,
00:19:20.000 –> 00:19:21.000
coach Knight,
00:19:22.000 –> 00:19:23.000
he’s gonna test you
00:19:24.000 –> 00:19:26.000
when you first get in a big ten.
00:19:26.000 –> 00:19:27.000
You could take it to the bank.
00:19:28.000 –> 00:19:31.000
Judd Heathcoat is gonna test you
00:19:31.000 –> 00:19:33.000
when you Yeah.
00:19:34.000 –> 00:19:35.000
Get to one of his games.
00:19:36.000 –> 00:19:38.000
He says, not coach knight. It’s gonna say
00:19:38.000 –> 00:19:41.000
something to you. It may be religious.
00:19:42.000 –> 00:19:44.000
It may be political Gilliland
00:19:44.000 –> 00:19:44.000
it.
00:19:45.000 –> 00:19:46.000
He may say something,
00:19:47.000 –> 00:19:48.000
racially.
00:19:48.000 –> 00:19:50.000
Oh my god. Because he wants to see
00:19:50.000 –> 00:19:51.000
how you’re gonna react.
00:19:52.000 –> 00:19:54.000
How thick is the man you have? Don’t
00:19:54.000 –> 00:19:55.000
react.
00:19:55.000 –> 00:19:56.000
And he says,
00:19:57.000 –> 00:20:00.000
all of these coaches in their own way
00:20:00.000 –> 00:20:02.000
will test you and here’s why.
00:20:03.000 –> 00:20:05.000
They’re not concerned
00:20:05.000 –> 00:20:06.000
about you
00:20:06.000 –> 00:20:07.000
at home.
00:20:09.000 –> 00:20:13.000
They’re concerned about you when Indiana goes to
00:20:13.000 –> 00:20:13.000
Purdue.
00:20:14.000 –> 00:20:17.000
And that fifteen thousand people are there
00:20:18.000 –> 00:20:19.000
at Machia Arena.
00:20:20.000 –> 00:20:21.000
Or when he goes to Illinois,
00:20:22.000 –> 00:20:25.000
and they’ve got the fourteen thousand people are
00:20:25.000 –> 00:20:26.000
so there.
00:20:26.000 –> 00:20:29.000
They are They wanna know how you’re gonna
00:20:29.000 –> 00:20:30.000
behave on the road.
00:20:31.000 –> 00:20:34.000
So I get asked this story often. What
00:20:34.000 –> 00:20:36.000
was the first thing coach and I said
00:20:36.000 –> 00:20:36.000
to you?
00:20:37.000 –> 00:20:37.000
So,
00:20:38.000 –> 00:20:39.000
this young cat,
00:20:40.000 –> 00:20:43.000
twenty eight years old, I walk out there
00:20:43.000 –> 00:20:44.000
on the floor.
00:20:45.000 –> 00:20:46.000
We get there. We have to be there
00:20:46.000 –> 00:20:48.000
an hour and a half before game time.
00:20:48.000 –> 00:20:50.000
Nobody’s in the arena.
00:20:51.000 –> 00:20:52.000
Then we have to walk out on the
00:20:52.000 –> 00:20:55.000
floor. Thirty minutes before game time.
00:20:56.000 –> 00:20:58.000
We walk out there thirty minutes before game
00:20:58.000 –> 00:21:00.000
time. There’s just a sea of red, sixteen
00:21:00.000 –> 00:21:03.000
thousand people, sea of red.
00:21:03.000 –> 00:21:05.000
And then coach Hightower
00:21:05.000 –> 00:21:08.000
at that time, he would normally come out
00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:09.000
a minute before the game.
00:21:10.000 –> 00:21:11.000
That was his demo.
00:21:12.000 –> 00:21:12.000
Well,
00:21:13.000 –> 00:21:15.000
He knew that he had this young,
00:21:17.000 –> 00:21:18.000
young official.
00:21:19.000 –> 00:21:21.000
He comes out about two and a half
00:21:21.000 –> 00:21:22.000
minutes before game time.
00:21:23.000 –> 00:21:26.000
The sea the the the the fans, they
00:21:26.000 –> 00:21:27.000
stand
00:21:27.000 –> 00:21:30.000
held to the king, held to the king.
00:21:30.000 –> 00:21:32.000
And so he walks by.
00:21:33.000 –> 00:21:36.000
The three officials. He goes down shakes hands
00:21:37.000 –> 00:21:39.000
with the, shake hand with the,
00:21:39.000 –> 00:21:42.000
opposing coach. Yeah. So he comes back and
00:21:42.000 –> 00:21:44.000
I’m just I I’m so scared.
00:21:44.000 –> 00:21:46.000
I am so scared to Shamkia because he,
00:21:47.000 –> 00:21:49.000
you know, all of the history
00:21:50.000 –> 00:21:53.000
throwing chairs, screaming yelling, you know, but just
00:21:53.000 –> 00:21:55.000
just just his m o, you know, just,
00:21:55.000 –> 00:21:57.000
you know, he was he was a national
00:21:57.000 –> 00:21:58.000
figure.
00:21:59.000 –> 00:22:00.000
So he goes down
00:22:00.000 –> 00:22:04.000
and he gets about six inches. His rear
00:22:04.000 –> 00:22:06.000
end from hitting his seat.
00:22:06.000 –> 00:22:08.000
And he comes back, and he gets right
00:22:08.000 –> 00:22:09.000
in my face.
00:22:10.000 –> 00:22:11.000
And he says,
00:22:12.000 –> 00:22:14.000
I hope you’re not tonight when I get
00:22:14.000 –> 00:22:16.000
on you. Oh.
00:22:16.000 –> 00:22:18.000
It’s gonna be,
00:22:18.000 –> 00:22:21.000
chewing that, and you can fill fill in
00:22:21.000 –> 00:22:22.000
the words.
00:22:22.000 –> 00:22:24.000
That you’ve never
00:22:24.000 –> 00:22:26.000
this is what it gave. And the fans
00:22:26.000 –> 00:22:27.000
are eating it up.
00:22:28.000 –> 00:22:30.000
Yeah. The fans are eating it up.
00:22:30.000 –> 00:22:32.000
This will be a chewing like you’ve never
00:22:32.000 –> 00:22:34.000
had before. Yeah. Welcome
00:22:35.000 –> 00:22:36.000
to the Big Ten.
00:22:37.000 –> 00:22:39.000
Now you think about that for a moment.
00:22:39.000 –> 00:22:41.000
And now, so that was my
00:22:42.000 –> 00:22:42.000
intro
00:22:43.000 –> 00:22:44.000
to coach Knight.
00:22:45.000 –> 00:22:48.000
Well, I in talking with Jim, Jim said
00:22:48.000 –> 00:22:51.000
Listen. The way you hail a coach knight,
00:22:51.000 –> 00:22:53.000
you don’t you you hail him the same
00:22:53.000 –> 00:22:54.000
way I want you to handle every other
00:22:54.000 –> 00:22:55.000
coach.
00:22:56.000 –> 00:22:59.000
You when you get near the coach where
00:22:59.000 –> 00:23:01.000
he’s standing, get out on the floor.
00:23:02.000 –> 00:23:02.000
And then
00:23:03.000 –> 00:23:05.000
when you start to go back down the
00:23:05.000 –> 00:23:07.000
floor, you go. You don’t you don’t linger.
00:23:08.000 –> 00:23:09.000
Doing a time out.
00:23:10.000 –> 00:23:12.000
Get out on the floor. You don’t need
00:23:12.000 –> 00:23:14.000
to and I I get angry now when
00:23:14.000 –> 00:23:16.000
I see these officials standing over their body
00:23:16.000 –> 00:23:17.000
coaches.
00:23:17.000 –> 00:23:20.000
They are not there to be your friend.
00:23:20.000 –> 00:23:22.000
They don’t give you candy.
00:23:23.000 –> 00:23:26.000
And they’re not handing out candy. No. So
00:23:26.000 –> 00:23:27.000
bottom line,
00:23:27.000 –> 00:23:30.000
I always adopt at that. I and that
00:23:30.000 –> 00:23:30.000
was my,
00:23:32.000 –> 00:23:34.000
way of Helen Coaches. Now
00:23:35.000 –> 00:23:36.000
the next game,
00:23:36.000 –> 00:23:39.000
I’ve got conference game. Uh-oh.
00:23:39.000 –> 00:23:40.000
I’ve got
00:23:41.000 –> 00:23:42.000
Judd Heathcote
00:23:43.000 –> 00:23:45.000
at Iowa against
00:23:46.000 –> 00:23:47.000
Lou
00:23:47.000 –> 00:23:47.000
lutosin.
00:23:48.000 –> 00:23:49.000
Yeah. Okay.
00:23:50.000 –> 00:23:53.000
He was there. Apartment? I forgot he was
00:23:53.000 –> 00:23:55.000
there. Yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. They had
00:23:55.000 –> 00:23:56.000
just opened Okay. Carver,
00:23:57.000 –> 00:23:59.000
hawk iron. Yeah. Okay.
00:23:59.000 –> 00:24:00.000
So now
00:24:00.000 –> 00:24:02.000
Think about this for a moment.
00:24:04.000 –> 00:24:05.000
The Iowa fans, they
00:24:07.000 –> 00:24:08.000
are rabbit.
00:24:09.000 –> 00:24:11.000
Because again, and I will think about it.
00:24:11.000 –> 00:24:13.000
There there there are no major league sports.
00:24:13.000 –> 00:24:16.000
It’s it’s just all this is the big
00:24:16.000 –> 00:24:18.000
deal. This is the big leagues as they
00:24:18.000 –> 00:24:18.000
call it.
00:24:19.000 –> 00:24:21.000
Judd Heat heat coat
00:24:22.000 –> 00:24:24.000
didn’t like young officials
00:24:25.000 –> 00:24:28.000
because he could not trust them. And I
00:24:28.000 –> 00:24:29.000
and I and I understand why now as
00:24:29.000 –> 00:24:32.000
I as I got into it, I I
00:24:32.000 –> 00:24:34.000
I quickly learned that. But again,
00:24:35.000 –> 00:24:38.000
same thing. Jim said, Ed,
00:24:38.000 –> 00:24:40.000
he’s gonna say something to you.
00:24:41.000 –> 00:24:44.000
Just let it go. So we go out
00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:44.000
there.
00:24:44.000 –> 00:24:46.000
I’m working with this veteran referee.
00:24:48.000 –> 00:24:50.000
This veteran referee in the first five minutes
00:24:50.000 –> 00:24:53.000
he makes three of the worst calls in
00:24:53.000 –> 00:24:54.000
America.
00:24:56.000 –> 00:24:59.000
Michigan two against Michigan State One against Iowa.
00:24:59.000 –> 00:25:02.000
Neither one of the coaches said a word.
00:25:03.000 –> 00:25:04.000
Neither one of the coaches.
00:25:04.000 –> 00:25:05.000
So now,
00:25:06.000 –> 00:25:08.000
it Hightower when he finally gets enough
00:25:08.000 –> 00:25:09.000
nerve
00:25:10.000 –> 00:25:11.000
to blow his whistle.
00:25:12.000 –> 00:25:14.000
I make my first call after about ten
00:25:14.000 –> 00:25:16.000
minutes. It’s the right call. Yeah.
00:25:17.000 –> 00:25:20.000
Judd Heath Coach, and it’s the correct call.
00:25:20.000 –> 00:25:22.000
Judd Heath Coach.
00:25:24.000 –> 00:25:25.000
Jumped up.
00:25:25.000 –> 00:25:26.000
And
00:25:26.000 –> 00:25:28.000
so I said, I knew it.
00:25:30.000 –> 00:25:32.000
Richard, where did this young kid come from?
00:25:32.000 –> 00:25:34.000
You will never make it. I’m gonna make
00:25:34.000 –> 00:25:36.000
sure you’re fired from the big ten. Oh
00:25:36.000 –> 00:25:39.000
my. You can’t make it. So we get
00:25:39.000 –> 00:25:40.000
through the game. Let me tell you.
00:25:41.000 –> 00:25:43.000
Doing the right thing,
00:25:43.000 –> 00:25:45.000
even when it’s unpopular.
00:25:46.000 –> 00:25:48.000
Michigan State is on the road.
00:25:49.000 –> 00:25:52.000
The last play of the game.
00:25:52.000 –> 00:25:56.000
I’m on national TV, CBS, Billy Packer is
00:25:56.000 –> 00:25:57.000
doing the game.
00:25:57.000 –> 00:25:59.000
There’s an out of bounds play.
00:26:00.000 –> 00:26:03.000
It’s my call. It’s right on the sideline.
00:26:04.000 –> 00:26:05.000
The coach,
00:26:06.000 –> 00:26:08.000
heat code could see it certainly
00:26:09.000 –> 00:26:11.000
Iowa could see it lead house.
00:26:12.000 –> 00:26:13.000
Now, the kid barely,
00:26:14.000 –> 00:26:16.000
barely stepped on the sideline.
00:26:18.000 –> 00:26:20.000
I could have easily said
00:26:21.000 –> 00:26:23.000
I didn’t see that call.
00:26:25.000 –> 00:26:26.000
I could have said that.
00:26:27.000 –> 00:26:29.000
Do the right thing, even when it’s not
00:26:30.000 –> 00:26:31.000
poplar. Yep.
00:26:32.000 –> 00:26:33.000
Boom is a great advice.
00:26:34.000 –> 00:26:35.000
Made the call.
00:26:36.000 –> 00:26:38.000
Iowa lost a game by one.
00:26:39.000 –> 00:26:41.000
John Heathco jumps up,
00:26:42.000 –> 00:26:45.000
great call. Now wait, he’s the same guy.
00:26:45.000 –> 00:26:47.000
The whole game that was saying you’ll never
00:26:47.000 –> 00:26:49.000
make it. You’re thinking part.
00:26:50.000 –> 00:26:50.000
And
00:26:51.000 –> 00:26:52.000
I made the right call
00:26:53.000 –> 00:26:54.000
from that point,
00:26:55.000 –> 00:26:58.000
individual, the coaches in the Big Ten, and
00:26:58.000 –> 00:27:00.000
Across the country began to say, who is
00:27:00.000 –> 00:27:02.000
this young kid? Yeah.
00:27:02.000 –> 00:27:04.000
I referred my first final four at thirty
00:27:04.000 –> 00:27:05.000
four years old.
00:27:06.000 –> 00:27:09.000
I worked seven final fours in a row.
00:27:09.000 –> 00:27:12.000
Holy smokes. In a row. That’s not normal.
00:27:12.000 –> 00:27:14.000
Not normal. You go back. I I think
00:27:14.000 –> 00:27:16.000
that’s the time has been done in the
00:27:16.000 –> 00:27:17.000
history of the game. That’s amazing.
00:27:18.000 –> 00:27:19.000
So it again,
00:27:19.000 –> 00:27:22.000
the story that I tell young people
00:27:22.000 –> 00:27:24.000
do the right thing even when it’s not
00:27:24.000 –> 00:27:24.000
popular.
00:27:26.000 –> 00:27:29.000
Do the right thing when people aren’t watching
00:27:29.000 –> 00:27:30.000
you.
00:27:31.000 –> 00:27:33.000
That’s the value system
00:27:33.000 –> 00:27:34.000
that
00:27:35.000 –> 00:27:38.000
you want to build your life around.
00:27:39.000 –> 00:27:40.000
You can’t please everyone.
00:27:41.000 –> 00:27:42.000
I’ve as superintendent.
00:27:42.000 –> 00:27:43.000
Yeah.
00:27:44.000 –> 00:27:46.000
Okay. I never tried to please.
00:27:47.000 –> 00:27:48.000
My employees,
00:27:50.000 –> 00:27:51.000
every decision that I made,
00:27:52.000 –> 00:27:53.000
I made it
00:27:54.000 –> 00:27:56.000
and the interests of the young people.
00:27:57.000 –> 00:28:00.000
Every decision when I refereed, I made it
00:28:00.000 –> 00:28:01.000
in the best interests
00:28:02.000 –> 00:28:03.000
of those players.
00:28:04.000 –> 00:28:05.000
And I would tell him upfront.
00:28:06.000 –> 00:28:08.000
I’m gonna tell you one time to get
00:28:08.000 –> 00:28:09.000
your shirt tail in.
00:28:10.000 –> 00:28:13.000
You’re not this is my game, you’re not
00:28:13.000 –> 00:28:15.000
gonna be walking around with your shirt tail
00:28:15.000 –> 00:28:16.000
out.
00:28:17.000 –> 00:28:18.000
I’m gonna tell you if I tell you
00:28:18.000 –> 00:28:19.000
to get your hands
00:28:21.000 –> 00:28:24.000
off, I’m trying to help you. Yeah. But
00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:26.000
I’m not gonna keep trust me. I’m not
00:28:26.000 –> 00:28:29.000
gonna keep telling you that. Yeah. And that’s
00:28:29.000 –> 00:28:31.000
the That was the relationship I had with
00:28:31.000 –> 00:28:32.000
coaches.
00:28:33.000 –> 00:28:35.000
I would throw my hand up, and when
00:28:35.000 –> 00:28:37.000
I said, this is it. I would listen.
00:28:37.000 –> 00:28:38.000
I never had rabbit ears.
00:28:39.000 –> 00:28:41.000
I would listen to coaches when they griped
00:28:41.000 –> 00:28:42.000
and complained.
00:28:43.000 –> 00:28:44.000
Because, you know,
00:28:44.000 –> 00:28:46.000
I had the philosophy
00:28:47.000 –> 00:28:48.000
I’m not always right.
00:28:49.000 –> 00:28:51.000
I’m not always right.
00:28:51.000 –> 00:28:52.000
And if I
00:28:53.000 –> 00:28:54.000
don’t react,
00:28:55.000 –> 00:28:57.000
But give that coach an opportunity to disagree
00:28:57.000 –> 00:29:00.000
with me, and he goes and looks at
00:29:00.000 –> 00:29:02.000
the film, he’s gonna come back and say,
00:29:02.000 –> 00:29:03.000
you know what?
00:29:04.000 –> 00:29:06.000
That that guy was Hightower, and, you know,
00:29:07.000 –> 00:29:08.000
he treated me with respect.
00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:10.000
Okay?
00:29:10.000 –> 00:29:13.000
But when I throw my hand up, and
00:29:13.000 –> 00:29:15.000
I’m the guy that started
00:29:15.000 –> 00:29:18.000
that put made this a national mechanic, when
00:29:18.000 –> 00:29:19.000
I do this,
00:29:20.000 –> 00:29:22.000
That’s it. Don’t say another word. This is
00:29:22.000 –> 00:29:23.000
your warning. That’s it.
00:29:24.000 –> 00:29:26.000
And that’s how I’ve lived my life, you
00:29:26.000 –> 00:29:26.000
know.
00:29:27.000 –> 00:29:29.000
I believe in second chance.
00:29:29.000 –> 00:29:31.000
For young people,
00:29:32.000 –> 00:29:34.000
people in general. Yeah. But I’m not gonna
00:29:34.000 –> 00:29:37.000
keep giving you chance after chance. I love
00:29:37.000 –> 00:29:38.000
that. So so what I mean, you made
00:29:38.000 –> 00:29:40.000
a ton of calls. Right? Obviously, in a
00:29:40.000 –> 00:29:43.000
in a thirty six year career, but not
00:29:43.000 –> 00:29:44.000
every one of them was the right call.
00:29:44.000 –> 00:29:45.000
So what did you do when you did
00:29:45.000 –> 00:29:47.000
mess up and missed a call? If I
00:29:47.000 –> 00:29:50.000
missed a call, and I would go in,
00:29:50.000 –> 00:29:52.000
when it was even not poplar, I’d go
00:29:52.000 –> 00:29:54.000
down I’d go and break down every
00:29:55.000 –> 00:29:56.000
every call
00:29:56.000 –> 00:29:58.000
that I So after the game. After the
00:29:58.000 –> 00:30:00.000
game. And do you wanna do a makeup
00:30:00.000 –> 00:30:01.000
call? No. No makeup.
00:30:02.000 –> 00:30:04.000
If I missed a call during the game,
00:30:04.000 –> 00:30:05.000
let me tell you what I would do.
00:30:05.000 –> 00:30:07.000
I would tell the coach coach. That’s on
00:30:07.000 –> 00:30:10.000
me. I missed that call. Yeah.
00:30:10.000 –> 00:30:12.000
I missed it. I would tell a player,
00:30:12.000 –> 00:30:14.000
but I’m not gonna keep It does make
00:30:14.000 –> 00:30:15.000
you feel better, though. I mean, we just
00:30:15.000 –> 00:30:17.000
I coach eighth grade basketball right now, and
00:30:17.000 –> 00:30:19.000
a ref the other night so that he
00:30:19.000 –> 00:30:20.000
goes, hey, Sorry. I missed that. You took
00:30:20.000 –> 00:30:22.000
ownership. And I’m like, you know what? What
00:30:22.000 –> 00:30:23.000
do you say? You know, and that and
00:30:23.000 –> 00:30:25.000
that’s the bottom line. That’s the bottom line.
00:30:25.000 –> 00:30:26.000
You know, don’t
00:30:27.000 –> 00:30:29.000
you you don’t need to alibi. You don’t
00:30:29.000 –> 00:30:30.000
need to make excuses.
00:30:30.000 –> 00:30:32.000
You don’t need to try to justify it.
00:30:32.000 –> 00:30:34.000
I missed a call. Yep. Our coach, and
00:30:34.000 –> 00:30:37.000
I tell young people when I’m working with
00:30:37.000 –> 00:30:37.000
them.
00:30:38.000 –> 00:30:40.000
Just say coach, you may be right.
00:30:40.000 –> 00:30:42.000
Even you know that
00:30:44.000 –> 00:30:45.000
you got it right. Yeah. Just say coach,
00:30:45.000 –> 00:30:46.000
you may be right.
00:30:46.000 –> 00:30:48.000
Because you’re not gonna win that moment when
00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:48.000
the temperature is high. Yeah. You’ve gotta bring
00:30:48.000 –> 00:30:49.000
the
00:30:49.000 –> 00:30:50.000
temp
00:30:56.000 –> 00:30:58.000
down. Coach, you may be right. You may
00:30:58.000 –> 00:31:00.000
be right. I didn’t say you were. That’s
00:31:00.000 –> 00:31:02.000
right. You may be right. Okay.
00:31:03.000 –> 00:31:05.000
Dean Smith was one of my,
00:31:07.000 –> 00:31:08.000
all time favorite coaches.
00:31:09.000 –> 00:31:10.000
I can’t remember we were doing a game
00:31:10.000 –> 00:31:11.000
with him
00:31:11.000 –> 00:31:12.000
And,
00:31:12.000 –> 00:31:13.000
we,
00:31:13.000 –> 00:31:15.000
one of my crew members missed a call
00:31:15.000 –> 00:31:17.000
so bad. I was a late referee, and
00:31:17.000 –> 00:31:19.000
I could I could not get him this
00:31:19.000 –> 00:31:21.000
I could not get
00:31:21.000 –> 00:31:22.000
this official
00:31:22.000 –> 00:31:24.000
to change the call.
00:31:24.000 –> 00:31:26.000
I tried to get him
00:31:27.000 –> 00:31:29.000
I called Dean Smith in stay as a
00:31:29.000 –> 00:31:30.000
coach, I I I have to,
00:31:31.000 –> 00:31:32.000
I I have to be able to live
00:31:32.000 –> 00:31:34.000
with myself. We missed that call.
00:31:34.000 –> 00:31:37.000
That was the respect that I, coach,
00:31:38.000 –> 00:31:39.000
when I received my doctorate,
00:31:40.000 –> 00:31:41.000
there were
00:31:41.000 –> 00:31:42.000
two people
00:31:43.000 –> 00:31:44.000
who reached out to me right away, and
00:31:44.000 –> 00:31:46.000
I don’t know how they found out.
00:31:46.000 –> 00:31:49.000
And congratulating me on my doctorate of education.
00:31:50.000 –> 00:31:51.000
Dean Smith,
00:31:52.000 –> 00:31:53.000
John Thompson. Wow.
00:31:54.000 –> 00:31:56.000
I think about that. Now, and and and
00:31:56.000 –> 00:31:59.000
the bottom line, see, I was not refereeing
00:31:59.000 –> 00:32:00.000
those guys
00:32:01.000 –> 00:32:01.000
consistently
00:32:02.000 –> 00:32:03.000
like what I was in the Big Ten,
00:32:03.000 –> 00:32:05.000
I would only catch those guys,
00:32:06.000 –> 00:32:08.000
in tournament play or when the ACC played
00:32:08.000 –> 00:32:11.000
the Big Ten. Yep. But they they watch.
00:32:12.000 –> 00:32:12.000
They
00:32:13.000 –> 00:32:15.000
they know who the who the good officials
00:32:15.000 –> 00:32:17.000
are. And they know
00:32:17.000 –> 00:32:18.000
every officials
00:32:21.000 –> 00:32:23.000
breaking point. Yeah.
00:32:23.000 –> 00:32:25.000
How how did you stay a student of
00:32:25.000 –> 00:32:27.000
the game in education and basketball? Because you
00:32:27.000 –> 00:32:29.000
really think about it. You’re you’re growing two
00:32:29.000 –> 00:32:32.000
careers parallel at the same time. Right? You’re
00:32:32.000 –> 00:32:33.000
growing two
00:32:34.000 –> 00:32:35.000
careers parallel.
00:32:38.000 –> 00:32:40.000
You you don’t change.
00:32:40.000 –> 00:32:41.000
Okay.
00:32:41.000 –> 00:32:44.000
And how do you raise there’s so many
00:32:44.000 –> 00:32:46.000
things as I talk to various groups I
00:32:46.000 –> 00:32:47.000
get a question
00:32:48.000 –> 00:32:49.000
on a regular basis.
00:32:49.000 –> 00:32:52.000
How are you able to keep all keep
00:32:52.000 –> 00:32:53.000
the three
00:32:54.000 –> 00:32:54.000
entities,
00:32:56.000 –> 00:32:57.000
together,
00:32:57.000 –> 00:32:59.000
and those entities
00:32:59.000 –> 00:33:00.000
of family.
00:33:02.000 –> 00:33:05.000
My professional job as an educator
00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:07.000
and my,
00:33:08.000 –> 00:33:09.000
my referee in.
00:33:11.000 –> 00:33:12.000
You don’t change.
00:33:13.000 –> 00:33:14.000
First of all, family
00:33:15.000 –> 00:33:18.000
is more important than anything else.
00:33:19.000 –> 00:33:21.000
My wife and I’ve been married forty nine
00:33:21.000 –> 00:33:22.000
years. We have two daughters,
00:33:23.000 –> 00:33:24.000
both successful.
00:33:25.000 –> 00:33:27.000
And as I was rear we were rearing
00:33:27.000 –> 00:33:30.000
our kids, both of our kids went to
00:33:30.000 –> 00:33:32.000
my school. We always believe in
00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:34.000
quality over quantity.
00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:38.000
Quality over quantity.
00:33:39.000 –> 00:33:42.000
Quality time over quantity. There are people who
00:33:42.000 –> 00:33:43.000
are together twenty four hours a day and
00:33:43.000 –> 00:33:46.000
can’t stand each other. Hightower
00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:48.000
my daughters knew,
00:33:48.000 –> 00:33:50.000
and even today,
00:33:51.000 –> 00:33:52.000
if they want me at something,
00:33:54.000 –> 00:33:57.000
They, whenever younger, they’d go in, tell my
00:33:57.000 –> 00:33:57.000
secretary,
00:33:58.000 –> 00:34:00.000
which you put this on debts.
00:34:01.000 –> 00:34:02.000
Scheduled.
00:34:03.000 –> 00:34:04.000
If they wrote it on there,
00:34:05.000 –> 00:34:07.000
it was important to them. Yeah. Now, they
00:34:07.000 –> 00:34:09.000
knew that they could go in there and
00:34:09.000 –> 00:34:11.000
write every day, you you know, you want
00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me here. Yeah. You know, you gotta share
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:14.000
me.
00:34:14.000 –> 00:34:17.000
But if they put something on my calendar
00:34:17.000 –> 00:34:19.000
and I had a game, Guess what?
00:34:20.000 –> 00:34:22.000
No. I got off that game. Yeah. It
00:34:22.000 –> 00:34:23.000
was family.
00:34:25.000 –> 00:34:28.000
Now, decision making, I’m in the decision making
00:34:28.000 –> 00:34:31.000
business in education. I’m in a decision making
00:34:31.000 –> 00:34:32.000
business,
00:34:33.000 –> 00:34:35.000
in referring. Yeah. By the
00:34:36.000 –> 00:34:39.000
Every second, you’re making a decision on someone’s
00:34:39.000 –> 00:34:40.000
livelihood.
00:34:41.000 –> 00:34:42.000
In education,
00:34:44.000 –> 00:34:44.000
It’s about
00:34:45.000 –> 00:34:45.000
educating
00:34:46.000 –> 00:34:48.000
kids for the next,
00:34:49.000 –> 00:34:51.000
step of their, next step in their life.
00:34:52.000 –> 00:34:53.000
Referin?
00:34:54.000 –> 00:34:56.000
I’m working with kids, and I’m making decisions
00:34:56.000 –> 00:34:57.000
about their careers.
00:34:58.000 –> 00:34:59.000
I can put them on the bench with
00:34:59.000 –> 00:35:02.000
a chief foul or a bad cough. Yep.
00:35:02.000 –> 00:35:03.000
And at the wrong time,
00:35:04.000 –> 00:35:05.000
and they’re penalized.
00:35:06.000 –> 00:35:08.000
So you have to always be cognizant
00:35:09.000 –> 00:35:10.000
of that
00:35:11.000 –> 00:35:13.000
and and keep that in the forefront.
00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:16.000
Before every game,
00:35:16.000 –> 00:35:17.000
every game,
00:35:18.000 –> 00:35:21.000
I walk I would go into the restroom
00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:23.000
by myself for a moment, and I would
00:35:23.000 –> 00:35:25.000
say a little prayer. Lord, please.
00:35:26.000 –> 00:35:27.000
Give me the
00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:29.000
wisdom, the knowledge,
00:35:30.000 –> 00:35:31.000
to not
00:35:31.000 –> 00:35:32.000
injure
00:35:33.000 –> 00:35:33.000
or hurt
00:35:34.000 –> 00:35:36.000
someone tonight. Yep.
00:35:37.000 –> 00:35:38.000
And that’s the same thing
00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:41.000
as I went to my office. Give me
00:35:41.000 –> 00:35:42.000
the wisdom knowledge.
00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:44.000
You can’t get too
00:35:46.000 –> 00:35:46.000
big,
00:35:47.000 –> 00:35:49.000
as we like to call it,
00:35:49.000 –> 00:35:51.000
see yourself as too important.
00:35:52.000 –> 00:35:55.000
For what this business is about. You’re in
00:35:55.000 –> 00:35:56.000
the people business.
00:35:56.000 –> 00:36:00.000
You’re in a helping business, your assistance business.
00:36:00.000 –> 00:36:01.000
Now, does that mean
00:36:01.000 –> 00:36:04.000
that you and allow somebody to do what
00:36:04.000 –> 00:36:06.000
the heck they want. And as I I
00:36:06.000 –> 00:36:09.000
I I I told, an individual wants,
00:36:09.000 –> 00:36:12.000
I was a young Gilliland
00:36:12.000 –> 00:36:14.000
everybody knew, no, knew that I was very
00:36:14.000 –> 00:36:16.000
religious, a religion.
00:36:16.000 –> 00:36:17.000
Yeah. And always,
00:36:18.000 –> 00:36:18.000
a
00:36:19.000 –> 00:36:20.000
priority with my family.
00:36:21.000 –> 00:36:23.000
So this guy comes in, and he is
00:36:23.000 –> 00:36:24.000
just being a first class jerk. I’m a
00:36:24.000 –> 00:36:25.000
principal.
00:36:26.000 –> 00:36:28.000
And he knew I was a first class
00:36:29.000 –> 00:36:30.000
jerk.
00:36:30.000 –> 00:36:31.000
And I said to him, I said, sir,
00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:34.000
I said, let’s let’s let’s get an understanding
00:36:34.000 –> 00:36:34.000
here.
00:36:36.000 –> 00:36:38.000
I said, ob he said, you
00:36:38.000 –> 00:36:41.000
you’re you’re religious in all of this. And
00:36:41.000 –> 00:36:43.000
I said, let’s get an understanding here.
00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:45.000
Don’t.
00:36:46.000 –> 00:36:47.000
Take
00:36:48.000 –> 00:36:48.000
my
00:36:50.000 –> 00:36:51.000
religious belief,
00:36:52.000 –> 00:36:52.000
are
00:36:53.000 –> 00:36:53.000
my kindness,
00:36:54.000 –> 00:36:55.000
as a form of weakness.
00:36:56.000 –> 00:36:58.000
If you make that statement again,
00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:00.000
you’re gonna find out
00:37:00.000 –> 00:37:02.000
just who I am.
00:37:02.000 –> 00:37:04.000
So, again, that’s extreme.
00:37:05.000 –> 00:37:06.000
Right. Right. Tell him how to know where
00:37:06.000 –> 00:37:08.000
you stand. You you’re gonna have to. Yeah.
00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:09.000
Don’t take
00:37:09.000 –> 00:37:10.000
this goodness
00:37:11.000 –> 00:37:13.000
as a form of weakness. I love that.
00:37:13.000 –> 00:37:14.000
And the same thing when I when I
00:37:14.000 –> 00:37:17.000
work with coaches. Yep. Coaches. I’m gonna listen
00:37:17.000 –> 00:37:18.000
to you for a moment.
00:37:18.000 –> 00:37:20.000
But you when I do when I give
00:37:20.000 –> 00:37:21.000
you that stop sign,
00:37:22.000 –> 00:37:25.000
that’s it. Don’t I’ve reached my limit.
00:37:26.000 –> 00:37:28.000
Don’t say another word. If you say another
00:37:28.000 –> 00:37:31.000
word, there’s something else coming. I love it.
00:37:31.000 –> 00:37:33.000
So let’s talk about the flying lineup. Let
00:37:33.000 –> 00:37:35.000
me tell you a quick story. So my
00:37:35.000 –> 00:37:37.000
grew up matt too, as I said. My,
00:37:38.000 –> 00:37:40.000
mom’s cousin was, I think, next door neighbors
00:37:40.000 –> 00:37:42.000
to Lou Henson. So so we got to
00:37:42.000 –> 00:37:42.000
know,
00:37:43.000 –> 00:37:45.000
them. And I was lucky enough in nineteen
00:37:45.000 –> 00:37:47.000
eighty nine. They had their final four dinner.
00:37:47.000 –> 00:37:49.000
I got invited. My mom and dad and
00:37:49.000 –> 00:37:52.000
I. Eighty nine were were in Seattle? Yes.
00:37:52.000 –> 00:37:53.000
Uh-huh. I was there. Yeah.
00:37:53.000 –> 00:37:55.000
So, I get to go to the the
00:37:55.000 –> 00:37:57.000
dinner back in Champagne, and, I sit next
00:37:57.000 –> 00:37:59.000
to Andy Kaufman. Oh, yes. And Randy called
00:37:59.000 –> 00:38:01.000
you. Thirty four, I believe. Number thirty and
00:38:01.000 –> 00:38:03.000
I got to try his,
00:38:03.000 –> 00:38:05.000
final four ring on. And it was really
00:38:05.000 –> 00:38:06.000
it was a great night. You know, I
00:38:06.000 –> 00:38:09.000
met, you know, Ken Gilliland Gail and Nick
00:38:09.000 –> 00:38:09.000
Anderson.
00:38:10.000 –> 00:38:12.000
Stephen Barto and Keno Gil both been on
00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:14.000
this podcast, which has been awesome. Good good
00:38:14.000 –> 00:38:15.000
people. I know both of them very well.
00:38:15.000 –> 00:38:18.000
But talk about the Flat Atlanta because a
00:38:18.000 –> 00:38:20.000
lot of people from Illinois listen to this.
00:38:20.000 –> 00:38:21.000
Our our Missouri friends will just have to
00:38:21.000 –> 00:38:22.000
they’ll just have to listen to it. Sure.
00:38:22.000 –> 00:38:24.000
Hightower? The flying Alana nineteen eighty nine, talk
00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:26.000
about that team and over your career. How
00:38:26.000 –> 00:38:27.000
did
00:38:27.000 –> 00:38:29.000
they rank? Would you like about him? Would
00:38:29.000 –> 00:38:31.000
you like about Liz? Let’s talk about,
00:38:31.000 –> 00:38:33.000
what was the greatest shot?
00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:37.000
Mhmm. What what what shot was that? Well,
00:38:37.000 –> 00:38:39.000
my greatest shot was the turnaround shot at
00:38:39.000 –> 00:38:41.000
the Indiana game that Nick Anderson from Half
00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:43.000
Court turns around throws it up. Who do
00:38:43.000 –> 00:38:44.000
you think was the lead referee on that
00:38:44.000 –> 00:38:46.000
game? That You got it right here. You
00:38:46.000 –> 00:38:47.000
had Hyde Hightower.
00:38:47.000 –> 00:38:49.000
And, let me tell you a little story
00:38:49.000 –> 00:38:51.000
about that game. That that play.
00:38:52.000 –> 00:38:55.000
That play. You remember Indiana went down and
00:38:55.000 –> 00:38:55.000
scored.
00:38:56.000 –> 00:38:56.000
Okay?
00:38:57.000 –> 00:38:58.000
They scored.
00:39:00.000 –> 00:39:01.000
And coach,
00:39:02.000 –> 00:39:05.000
Henson called the time out right away. Mhmm.
00:39:05.000 –> 00:39:06.000
Coach Knight,
00:39:07.000 –> 00:39:10.000
wanted all he wanted to know was how
00:39:10.000 –> 00:39:11.000
much time I was gonna put back on
00:39:11.000 –> 00:39:13.000
the clock because there was no way in
00:39:13.000 –> 00:39:15.000
the world on the baseline Yeah. Even though
00:39:15.000 –> 00:39:17.000
the kid could run. He could run. Yep.
00:39:18.000 –> 00:39:20.000
There’s no way in the world.
00:39:22.000 –> 00:39:22.000
I thought,
00:39:23.000 –> 00:39:25.000
coach and I, or anyone else thought that
00:39:25.000 –> 00:39:27.000
that ball, first of all, was gonna get
00:39:27.000 –> 00:39:30.000
across half court, and they were gonna be
00:39:30.000 –> 00:39:31.000
able to get it up and score.
00:39:32.000 –> 00:39:34.000
I was the lead referee
00:39:34.000 –> 00:39:36.000
I put the ball in playing.
00:39:36.000 –> 00:39:39.000
I saw it all. It witnessed it all.
00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:41.000
And then, of course, I went to,
00:39:42.000 –> 00:39:44.000
to the final four with them that year,
00:39:44.000 –> 00:39:45.000
in Seattle.
00:39:46.000 –> 00:39:47.000
And,
00:39:47.000 –> 00:39:50.000
oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, Michigan was there.
00:39:52.000 –> 00:39:53.000
Miskum was there,
00:39:55.000 –> 00:39:57.000
Seaton Gilliland
00:39:57.000 –> 00:39:58.000
Duke. Yeah.
00:39:59.000 –> 00:40:01.000
You see, That’s Hightower, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh,
00:40:01.000 –> 00:40:03.000
yeah. Oh, yeah. And so,
00:40:04.000 –> 00:40:04.000
I didn’t
00:40:05.000 –> 00:40:06.000
they didn’t assign
00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.000
me to the Illinois
00:40:09.000 –> 00:40:09.000
semifinal.
00:40:10.000 –> 00:40:10.000
Because
00:40:11.000 –> 00:40:14.000
I was from Illinois and again, all of
00:40:14.000 –> 00:40:16.000
that. You know, back then, they were very
00:40:17.000 –> 00:40:18.000
conscious and cognizant of
00:40:19.000 –> 00:40:21.000
those kinds of situation.
00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:23.000
But, you know, again,
00:40:23.000 –> 00:40:26.000
you know, a couple calls here that, coach
00:40:26.000 –> 00:40:29.000
Henson might be the one of the biggest
00:40:29.000 –> 00:40:31.000
jumps of my night when Nick Anderson made
00:40:31.000 –> 00:40:33.000
me chat. Oh my god. It’s unbelievable. So
00:40:33.000 –> 00:40:35.000
talk about Lou Hanson, the Lou Dew.
00:40:35.000 –> 00:40:37.000
Cohenson was,
00:40:38.000 –> 00:40:39.000
a great person.
00:40:39.000 –> 00:40:40.000
Yeah. Number one.
00:40:41.000 –> 00:40:42.000
He was a great humanitarian
00:40:43.000 –> 00:40:44.000
Number two,
00:40:45.000 –> 00:40:47.000
he was one of the most underrated couches
00:40:48.000 –> 00:40:49.000
in the game.
00:40:50.000 –> 00:40:51.000
Underrated.
00:40:51.000 –> 00:40:53.000
I I I just thought and and by
00:40:53.000 –> 00:40:54.000
the way, I I knew
00:40:55.000 –> 00:40:57.000
all of the coaches back then knew them
00:40:57.000 –> 00:40:58.000
all now. Yeah. Okay.
00:40:59.000 –> 00:40:59.000
Cohenson,
00:41:01.000 –> 00:41:04.000
not only was a great person, but he
00:41:04.000 –> 00:41:06.000
was a great tactician.
00:41:07.000 –> 00:41:08.000
The kids had to play
00:41:09.000 –> 00:41:10.000
defense, or they didn’t stay in the game.
00:41:10.000 –> 00:41:11.000
Now at times,
00:41:12.000 –> 00:41:13.000
you know, we would get you you guys
00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:15.000
would get upset that he would pull a
00:41:15.000 –> 00:41:16.000
guy so quickly.
00:41:16.000 –> 00:41:18.000
If you didn’t play defense,
00:41:19.000 –> 00:41:21.000
you were coming out of the game? Yep.
00:41:21.000 –> 00:41:22.000
Okay.
00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:24.000
And that’s just a bottom line. Now maybe
00:41:24.000 –> 00:41:26.000
that happened a little too often, you know,
00:41:26.000 –> 00:41:28.000
if you want to criticize.
00:41:28.000 –> 00:41:29.000
But,
00:41:30.000 –> 00:41:32.000
I I have the greatest respect
00:41:33.000 –> 00:41:34.000
for
00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:35.000
Coach Henson
00:41:35.000 –> 00:41:38.000
and what he stood for. And I did
00:41:38.000 –> 00:41:39.000
a podcast
00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:43.000
on Coach Henson, when he passed away. And,
00:41:43.000 –> 00:41:46.000
the respect that I have for that man,
00:41:47.000 –> 00:41:49.000
and what he brought to the great game.
00:41:49.000 –> 00:41:51.000
And as a human
00:41:51.000 –> 00:41:51.000
being,
00:41:52.000 –> 00:41:55.000
and his willingness to help others.
00:41:56.000 –> 00:41:58.000
And and I just think that he did
00:41:58.000 –> 00:42:00.000
not get the credit. No.
00:42:02.000 –> 00:42:05.000
Did they lose some games? Yes. They lost
00:42:05.000 –> 00:42:07.000
some close games. But when you look at
00:42:07.000 –> 00:42:08.000
his body of work,
00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:10.000
you won’t find anyone
00:42:10.000 –> 00:42:11.000
that put
00:42:13.000 –> 00:42:14.000
as comprehensive
00:42:14.000 –> 00:42:16.000
and complete body of work together
00:42:17.000 –> 00:42:18.000
as coach Hansen.
00:42:19.000 –> 00:42:20.000
Yep. Look at his overall.
00:42:22.000 –> 00:42:23.000
You know, when he was at what,
00:42:24.000 –> 00:42:24.000
centenary.
00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:25.000
Yep.
00:42:25.000 –> 00:42:27.000
A lot of people don’t know.
00:42:28.000 –> 00:42:30.000
He wouldn’t take that job list. The,
00:42:31.000 –> 00:42:33.000
integrated his coach at staff.
00:42:33.000 –> 00:42:34.000
You know,
00:42:35.000 –> 00:42:36.000
that’s the type of humanitarian
00:42:37.000 –> 00:42:39.000
Looking at first people. Look at look at
00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:41.000
no. Looking at society
00:42:41.000 –> 00:42:43.000
and what it meant. Yeah.
00:42:43.000 –> 00:42:43.000
Okay.
00:42:44.000 –> 00:42:44.000
So,
00:42:46.000 –> 00:42:47.000
just a great humanitarian
00:42:48.000 –> 00:42:49.000
Great. Humanitarian.
00:42:50.000 –> 00:42:51.000
So did you see were you around with
00:42:51.000 –> 00:42:52.000
the, FAD five?
00:42:54.000 –> 00:42:56.000
What was the greatest situation with the FAD
00:42:56.000 –> 00:42:58.000
five? Don’t tell me you’re doing that game.
00:42:58.000 –> 00:43:00.000
Was that nineteen ninety two the time out?
00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:02.000
What was what was the greatest what was
00:43:02.000 –> 00:43:04.000
the when you talk about the FAPFI, what
00:43:04.000 –> 00:43:07.000
what What are they known for the one
00:43:07.000 –> 00:43:10.000
single moment in time? Well, the time out.
00:43:10.000 –> 00:43:11.000
I was the lead referee
00:43:12.000 –> 00:43:15.000
on that game with the FAP five in
00:43:15.000 –> 00:43:16.000
New Orleans. Did you make that call? I
00:43:16.000 –> 00:43:19.000
was the lead referee and made the call.
00:43:19.000 –> 00:43:20.000
I had told,
00:43:21.000 –> 00:43:22.000
I was mad at you that night. Why
00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:24.000
is that? I was a Michigan fan at
00:43:24.000 –> 00:43:26.000
that point. I liked the FED five. Well,
00:43:26.000 –> 00:43:27.000
I did too. Let me tell you. Let
00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:29.000
me tell you about the FED five very
00:43:29.000 –> 00:43:29.000
quick. Thing.
00:43:31.000 –> 00:43:31.000
When
00:43:32.000 –> 00:43:34.000
the fab five came on the scene,
00:43:37.000 –> 00:43:37.000
They
00:43:38.000 –> 00:43:39.000
changed the culture
00:43:42.000 –> 00:43:44.000
of sports. Yeah. And
00:43:44.000 –> 00:43:45.000
society forever.
00:43:46.000 –> 00:43:47.000
Yeah.
00:43:47.000 –> 00:43:48.000
And
00:43:48.000 –> 00:43:49.000
that group,
00:43:49.000 –> 00:43:52.000
whatever you wanna say about them, we weren’t
00:43:52.000 –> 00:43:54.000
ready for
00:43:55.000 –> 00:43:56.000
they’re antics. Yeah. You know, with the lone
00:43:56.000 –> 00:43:57.000
parents,
00:43:57.000 –> 00:43:57.000
the,
00:43:59.000 –> 00:44:00.000
the different colored socks.
00:44:01.000 –> 00:44:01.000
Yeah. And,
00:44:02.000 –> 00:44:03.000
and their swagger
00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:07.000
and, their trash talk. Yeah. We
00:44:07.000 –> 00:44:09.000
you know, we weren’t ready for that.
00:44:10.000 –> 00:44:12.000
The commissioner of the Big Ten,
00:44:13.000 –> 00:44:15.000
Sent to me, you’re gonna live with that
00:44:15.000 –> 00:44:17.000
group, and there were three referees,
00:44:18.000 –> 00:44:20.000
and we were all educators We work more.
00:44:20.000 –> 00:44:21.000
He’s in your babies.
00:44:22.000 –> 00:44:24.000
You’re gonna live with them, and you’re gonna
00:44:25.000 –> 00:44:27.000
you’re you’re gonna keep them in check.
00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:28.000
And and,
00:44:30.000 –> 00:44:31.000
Jalen Rose,
00:44:31.000 –> 00:44:33.000
you know, he’s one of the smartest young
00:44:33.000 –> 00:44:35.000
people who you and
00:44:36.000 –> 00:44:37.000
he has a sense of humor.
00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:41.000
He would talk trash out there and one
00:44:41.000 –> 00:44:41.000
night,
00:44:42.000 –> 00:44:44.000
and just just a great individual,
00:44:45.000 –> 00:44:45.000
really.
00:44:46.000 –> 00:44:47.000
And so Jaylen
00:44:48.000 –> 00:44:50.000
He would do a dunk on you and
00:44:50.000 –> 00:44:52.000
get in your face and all of that.
00:44:52.000 –> 00:44:52.000
So,
00:44:53.000 –> 00:44:55.000
I’m working him
00:44:55.000 –> 00:44:56.000
at Northwestern
00:44:57.000 –> 00:44:58.000
And so I,
00:44:59.000 –> 00:45:01.000
I I got so upset with him. I
00:45:01.000 –> 00:45:03.000
grabbed him by the arm, and I took
00:45:03.000 –> 00:45:05.000
him over to Steve. Fisher, Fisher was some
00:45:05.000 –> 00:45:05.000
sin Australia,
00:45:06.000 –> 00:45:07.000
the Centrilla area.
00:45:08.000 –> 00:45:10.000
And so I said coach.
00:45:11.000 –> 00:45:12.000
I said, no,
00:45:12.000 –> 00:45:14.000
I am not gonna have Jaylen.
00:45:15.000 –> 00:45:17.000
I’m I would not call this right. I’m
00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:19.000
not gonna have number thirty four, whatever his
00:45:19.000 –> 00:45:20.000
number was. Yeah. Embarrass
00:45:21.000 –> 00:45:23.000
a player like what he did. He does
00:45:23.000 –> 00:45:24.000
that again.
00:45:25.000 –> 00:45:27.000
I’m gonna throw him out of the game.
00:45:27.000 –> 00:45:29.000
It’s not gonna be just a technical file.
00:45:29.000 –> 00:45:33.000
This is his official warning. Not only Jalen.
00:45:34.000 –> 00:45:35.000
After the game.
00:45:36.000 –> 00:45:36.000
Jalen,
00:45:37.000 –> 00:45:39.000
the, he was doing the interview. Well,
00:45:40.000 –> 00:45:41.000
I noticed that you and,
00:45:42.000 –> 00:45:43.000
referee hightower
00:45:44.000 –> 00:45:47.000
were were having a discussion tonight. What what
00:45:47.000 –> 00:45:48.000
was that all about?
00:45:49.000 –> 00:45:50.000
Only Jaylen.
00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:51.000
Well, you know how
00:45:52.000 –> 00:45:54.000
a principal Hightower is. He thought he was
00:45:54.000 –> 00:45:55.000
back in school,
00:45:55.000 –> 00:45:57.000
and he threatened me with the detention.
00:45:59.000 –> 00:46:01.000
That’s that’s Jaylen.
00:46:01.000 –> 00:46:02.000
And and,
00:46:04.000 –> 00:46:05.000
you know, the coach
00:46:06.000 –> 00:46:08.000
Joan Howard. Yeah. He was my go to
00:46:08.000 –> 00:46:10.000
guy back then, you know,
00:46:11.000 –> 00:46:14.000
I if we had an issue with with
00:46:14.000 –> 00:46:16.000
the rest of the group, which you know,
00:46:16.000 –> 00:46:18.000
there were good times. He no. No. No.
00:46:18.000 –> 00:46:19.000
No. No. No. No. No. No. He was
00:46:19.000 –> 00:46:21.000
to he was to oh, no. Not at
00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:24.000
all. We’d go to to Joanne and say,
00:46:25.000 –> 00:46:27.000
whatever his number was. In twenty five? You
00:46:27.000 –> 00:46:29.000
gotta you gotta take care of this. And
00:46:29.000 –> 00:46:30.000
he would. I mean, he
00:46:31.000 –> 00:46:33.000
you could tell that he was a leader.
00:46:34.000 –> 00:46:35.000
Yeah. He was a leader
00:46:36.000 –> 00:46:38.000
all the way back then.
00:46:39.000 –> 00:46:40.000
And so
00:46:40.000 –> 00:46:42.000
it doesn’t surprise any of us that,
00:46:43.000 –> 00:46:45.000
you know, I know he’s had he had
00:46:45.000 –> 00:46:47.000
some hard time last year and all, but
00:46:47.000 –> 00:46:48.000
that’s okay.
00:46:48.000 –> 00:46:50.000
He’s still a leader. We make mistakes,
00:46:51.000 –> 00:46:53.000
but, he is just a, a wonderful young
00:46:53.000 –> 00:46:55.000
person. So talk about the traits he saw
00:46:55.000 –> 00:46:57.000
and and some of the greatest players that,
00:46:57.000 –> 00:46:59.000
you know, obviously went through college, put in
00:46:59.000 –> 00:47:01.000
the NBA, you saw them all.
00:47:01.000 –> 00:47:03.000
Talk about those trades, but a that to
00:47:03.000 –> 00:47:05.000
the person. Listen this podcast right now. That’s
00:47:05.000 –> 00:47:07.000
in the business world or the education world,
00:47:07.000 –> 00:47:09.000
the medical world, whatever it may be. What
00:47:09.000 –> 00:47:11.000
did you see there that can be applied
00:47:11.000 –> 00:47:12.000
to the to the office.
00:47:12.000 –> 00:47:13.000
Personal Verintz.
00:47:14.000 –> 00:47:16.000
James. Gold setting.
00:47:17.000 –> 00:47:20.000
When it when it when when at the
00:47:20.000 –> 00:47:20.000
toughest
00:47:21.000 –> 00:47:21.000
moment.
00:47:22.000 –> 00:47:24.000
That’s when those individuals
00:47:25.000 –> 00:47:27.000
really showed and demonstrated.
00:47:30.000 –> 00:47:31.000
There’s true
00:47:31.000 –> 00:47:32.000
value system.
00:47:33.000 –> 00:47:36.000
And when I talk about value system, that
00:47:36.000 –> 00:47:36.000
toughness,
00:47:37.000 –> 00:47:40.000
that Gilliland that willingness to
00:47:40.000 –> 00:47:41.000
give a little extra.
00:47:43.000 –> 00:47:46.000
That willingness in and I use this with
00:47:46.000 –> 00:47:47.000
young Gilliland
00:47:47.000 –> 00:47:49.000
getting a little old now. The guy’s name
00:47:49.000 –> 00:47:52.000
was Hersha Hawkins from Bradley. Yeah. He’s one
00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:54.000
of my all time favorite players.
00:47:56.000 –> 00:47:58.000
I asked him once. He was a great
00:47:58.000 –> 00:48:01.000
player. Remember? Yep. He was the eighty eight,
00:48:01.000 –> 00:48:03.000
player of the year over Danny Manage, and
00:48:03.000 –> 00:48:06.000
my first final four with with Kansas. Yeah.
00:48:06.000 –> 00:48:08.000
Well, Danny ended up being the player of
00:48:08.000 –> 00:48:09.000
the year,
00:48:10.000 –> 00:48:11.000
and I never get into who should be
00:48:11.000 –> 00:48:13.000
the player of the new, but Hersha Hawkins
00:48:13.000 –> 00:48:14.000
really should have player of the year that
00:48:14.000 –> 00:48:15.000
year.
00:48:15.000 –> 00:48:17.000
But Hersha Hawkins was one of my all
00:48:17.000 –> 00:48:18.000
time favorites.
00:48:18.000 –> 00:48:20.000
He was one he was one of the
00:48:20.000 –> 00:48:22.000
great jump shooters, as you know.
00:48:22.000 –> 00:48:23.000
So
00:48:25.000 –> 00:48:26.000
we would have to go to be at
00:48:26.000 –> 00:48:27.000
the game
00:48:28.000 –> 00:48:30.000
an hour and a half before game time.
00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:31.000
Okay.
00:48:32.000 –> 00:48:35.000
Hershel Hawkins, if he had missed the game
00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:36.000
before.
00:48:38.000 –> 00:48:40.000
Wherever he missed the shot from,
00:48:41.000 –> 00:48:42.000
That next game,
00:48:43.000 –> 00:48:45.000
at hour and a half before game time,
00:48:46.000 –> 00:48:49.000
the lights aren’t even on yet. He’s out
00:48:49.000 –> 00:48:51.000
there practicing that shot Wow. That he missed.
00:48:52.000 –> 00:48:55.000
And I asked him when I I said,
00:48:55.000 –> 00:48:57.000
I said, I called him Hawk. I said,
00:48:57.000 –> 00:49:00.000
Hawk. I said, man, you you’re a great
00:49:00.000 –> 00:49:00.000
player.
00:49:03.000 –> 00:49:04.000
Why are you
00:49:05.000 –> 00:49:05.000
practicing?
00:49:08.000 –> 00:49:10.000
At an hour and a half before game
00:49:10.000 –> 00:49:11.000
time.
00:49:12.000 –> 00:49:15.000
And you’re coming off, and you’re you’re acting
00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:16.000
as if,
00:49:16.000 –> 00:49:17.000
here’s a screen.
00:49:18.000 –> 00:49:20.000
Here’s the jump shot.
00:49:20.000 –> 00:49:22.000
Why do you do that?
00:49:22.000 –> 00:49:23.000
He says because
00:49:25.000 –> 00:49:27.000
that shot is gonna come up again.
00:49:29.000 –> 00:49:30.000
Now, you take that
00:49:31.000 –> 00:49:32.000
in life.
00:49:32.000 –> 00:49:34.000
You learn from experiences.
00:49:35.000 –> 00:49:38.000
It’s gonna come up again. Yeah. And if
00:49:38.000 –> 00:49:39.000
you’ve rehearsed
00:49:39.000 –> 00:49:39.000
it,
00:49:40.000 –> 00:49:42.000
then you know how to react.
00:49:43.000 –> 00:49:45.000
I used to get in front of a
00:49:45.000 –> 00:49:45.000
mirror
00:49:47.000 –> 00:49:48.000
at home
00:49:48.000 –> 00:49:51.000
and rehearse my mechanics. People used to say,
00:49:51.000 –> 00:49:53.000
boy, hi, Tara. Boy, look at his mechanics.
00:49:54.000 –> 00:49:56.000
That was not by accident.
00:49:57.000 –> 00:50:00.000
You have to everything has to be in
00:50:00.000 –> 00:50:00.000
sync.
00:50:01.000 –> 00:50:03.000
And here’s the thing. When you get into
00:50:03.000 –> 00:50:05.000
that situation,
00:50:05.000 –> 00:50:07.000
you got fifty thousand
00:50:08.000 –> 00:50:09.000
people in the arena
00:50:10.000 –> 00:50:11.000
at a final four.
00:50:12.000 –> 00:50:14.000
You got millions watching.
00:50:14.000 –> 00:50:16.000
You can’t think about it.
00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:18.000
You got to
00:50:19.000 –> 00:50:19.000
react.
00:50:21.000 –> 00:50:22.000
You’re not
00:50:23.000 –> 00:50:26.000
over. You got to react to the situation
00:50:27.000 –> 00:50:27.000
at the moment.
00:50:28.000 –> 00:50:30.000
And that’s life. Mhmm.
00:50:31.000 –> 00:50:32.000
That’s life.
00:50:33.000 –> 00:50:34.000
Solid.
00:50:34.000 –> 00:50:36.000
Man, tons of takeaways.
00:50:37.000 –> 00:50:38.000
Last few questions. So you’re
00:50:39.000 –> 00:50:40.000
I talk about this all the time on
00:50:40.000 –> 00:50:42.000
these podcasts is fears.
00:50:43.000 –> 00:50:45.000
The fears we put in our mind, how
00:50:45.000 –> 00:50:46.000
many of the fears have actually blown up
00:50:46.000 –> 00:50:48.000
to the magnitude you put them in your
00:50:48.000 –> 00:50:49.000
mind to be? Well,
00:50:50.000 –> 00:50:52.000
you know, as a young
00:50:53.000 –> 00:50:53.000
person,
00:50:55.000 –> 00:50:56.000
when I was in
00:50:57.000 –> 00:50:58.000
fourth grade,
00:51:00.000 –> 00:51:01.000
My fourth grade teacher said
00:51:02.000 –> 00:51:04.000
I would never be anything.
00:51:04.000 –> 00:51:05.000
She called me dumb,
00:51:06.000 –> 00:51:08.000
come and retard it.
00:51:09.000 –> 00:51:11.000
In fourth grade in the south.
00:51:12.000 –> 00:51:13.000
My fifth grade teacher,
00:51:15.000 –> 00:51:16.000
miss Jackson,
00:51:18.000 –> 00:51:19.000
She took those spirits away.
00:51:21.000 –> 00:51:21.000
She said,
00:51:22.000 –> 00:51:24.000
you can be anything in anybody you wanna
00:51:24.000 –> 00:51:25.000
be.
00:51:26.000 –> 00:51:27.000
The fear
00:51:27.000 –> 00:51:28.000
is what
00:51:29.000 –> 00:51:31.000
you imagine it to be.
00:51:32.000 –> 00:51:33.000
I never forgot that.
00:51:34.000 –> 00:51:36.000
I never forgot that.
00:51:37.000 –> 00:51:39.000
And with it, I say you prepare
00:51:41.000 –> 00:51:42.000
for that for the
00:51:44.000 –> 00:51:44.000
uncertainties
00:51:45.000 –> 00:51:46.000
And
00:51:46.000 –> 00:51:48.000
when you get into that moment now, let
00:51:48.000 –> 00:51:50.000
me be clear with you.
00:51:50.000 –> 00:51:51.000
Before every gain,
00:51:53.000 –> 00:51:54.000
before every game.
00:51:55.000 –> 00:51:57.000
I don’t care. The
00:51:58.000 –> 00:51:59.000
the magnitude of a game, if it was
00:51:59.000 –> 00:52:03.000
a game with Lewis and Clark, and Bellville
00:52:04.000 –> 00:52:05.000
Swick at that time.
00:52:06.000 –> 00:52:07.000
I’m just using that as an example.
00:52:09.000 –> 00:52:10.000
I would have to go,
00:52:12.000 –> 00:52:14.000
to the restroom. Yeah. I would say that
00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:16.000
prayer before I walked out there because I
00:52:16.000 –> 00:52:18.000
was the nurse those were the nerds.
00:52:18.000 –> 00:52:19.000
But once,
00:52:20.000 –> 00:52:21.000
I threw that ball up.
00:52:22.000 –> 00:52:23.000
No fear.
00:52:24.000 –> 00:52:25.000
Yeah. You’re prepared.
00:52:27.000 –> 00:52:28.000
You’re prepared
00:52:29.000 –> 00:52:30.000
mentally,
00:52:31.000 –> 00:52:32.000
physically.
00:52:32.000 –> 00:52:34.000
You know the rules.
00:52:34.000 –> 00:52:35.000
Yep. And you just react.
00:52:40.000 –> 00:52:41.000
It’s so true. And then, I mean, I
00:52:41.000 –> 00:52:42.000
even said this to Matt right before we
00:52:42.000 –> 00:52:44.000
started recording this.
00:52:44.000 –> 00:52:45.000
You’re
00:52:45.000 –> 00:52:47.000
stepped outside. And I said, you know, it’s
00:52:47.000 –> 00:52:49.000
funny after three hundred and whatever, eighty five
00:52:49.000 –> 00:52:51.000
guests, you still got the little bit of
00:52:51.000 –> 00:52:54.000
the the nerves. Hightower you don’t. If you
00:52:54.000 –> 00:52:55.000
don’t, you don’t care. I mean, I heard
00:52:55.000 –> 00:52:56.000
Tiger would say that. Right? If he goes,
00:52:56.000 –> 00:52:58.000
if the day I stop being nervous on
00:52:58.000 –> 00:53:00.000
the first tee is what I’m Exactly. And,
00:53:00.000 –> 00:53:02.000
exactly. So that that that matters. That matters.
00:53:02.000 –> 00:53:03.000
So,
00:53:04.000 –> 00:53:06.000
let’s see. So when you think about,
00:53:07.000 –> 00:53:08.000
reading, how important has that been in your
00:53:08.000 –> 00:53:09.000
career?
00:53:10.000 –> 00:53:10.000
Oh,
00:53:11.000 –> 00:53:11.000
absolutely.
00:53:12.000 –> 00:53:14.000
You have to, you know, we have a
00:53:14.000 –> 00:53:16.000
we we we have a sand in church.
00:53:17.000 –> 00:53:18.000
You have to study
00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:21.000
to show yourself approved.
00:53:21.000 –> 00:53:23.000
That’s an old saying in church. Well, it’s
00:53:23.000 –> 00:53:25.000
the same thing with education.
00:53:26.000 –> 00:53:27.000
I read a lot.
00:53:28.000 –> 00:53:30.000
I don’t read just to read, but I
00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:31.000
read a ton,
00:53:32.000 –> 00:53:32.000
particularly
00:53:33.000 –> 00:53:34.000
on the subject matters.
00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:37.000
That are important to me. Yeah. Education,
00:53:38.000 –> 00:53:39.000
when I was
00:53:39.000 –> 00:53:40.000
in education,
00:53:41.000 –> 00:53:42.000
I read every
00:53:43.000 –> 00:53:46.000
article I could get my hands on on
00:53:46.000 –> 00:53:46.000
leadership,
00:53:47.000 –> 00:53:48.000
decision making,
00:53:49.000 –> 00:53:50.000
working with kids,
00:53:50.000 –> 00:53:51.000
understanding
00:53:51.000 –> 00:53:52.000
the dynamics
00:53:52.000 –> 00:53:53.000
of what
00:53:54.000 –> 00:53:56.000
I was gonna be faced with. Yep. Refering,
00:53:57.000 –> 00:53:59.000
I knew that rule book
00:54:00.000 –> 00:54:01.000
back in front.
00:54:01.000 –> 00:54:02.000
Leadership,
00:54:02.000 –> 00:54:03.000
I would always
00:54:05.000 –> 00:54:06.000
read articles
00:54:06.000 –> 00:54:07.000
about leadership
00:54:07.000 –> 00:54:09.000
and decision making
00:54:09.000 –> 00:54:10.000
Okay? Because that
00:54:11.000 –> 00:54:12.000
you learn
00:54:12.000 –> 00:54:14.000
if you can just pick up one little
00:54:14.000 –> 00:54:15.000
nugget.
00:54:15.000 –> 00:54:16.000
Yep.
00:54:16.000 –> 00:54:18.000
It’s gonna make you better at what you
00:54:18.000 –> 00:54:19.000
do. Yep.
00:54:19.000 –> 00:54:21.000
So I’ll close with this one. I’m anxious
00:54:21.000 –> 00:54:23.000
to see. I’ve never asked these questions. I
00:54:23.000 –> 00:54:24.000
just read it this morning. So I read
00:54:24.000 –> 00:54:26.000
my my deal is at least ten pages
00:54:26.000 –> 00:54:27.000
a day. Every day. If I can do
00:54:27.000 –> 00:54:28.000
that, you’re gonna read a lot of books.
00:54:28.000 –> 00:54:30.000
Mhmm. And so I read this today, and
00:54:30.000 –> 00:54:31.000
it was it made me think. I sent
00:54:31.000 –> 00:54:33.000
it to a couple buddies, but it said,
00:54:33.000 –> 00:54:35.000
you know, basically be careful of the feedback
00:54:35.000 –> 00:54:37.000
that you take. Not everything is for you.
00:54:37.000 –> 00:54:38.000
Maybe maybe it’s for you, maybe it’s for
00:54:38.000 –> 00:54:40.000
me, but it it may not be for
00:54:40.000 –> 00:54:42.000
both of us. Right? And it said be
00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:42.000
careful
00:54:42.000 –> 00:54:45.000
because the boiling water that hardens the egg
00:54:45.000 –> 00:54:47.000
softens the carrot.
00:54:47.000 –> 00:54:48.000
So when you hear that, what do you
00:54:48.000 –> 00:54:51.000
think? Well, when I when I see that
00:54:51.000 –> 00:54:53.000
in when I when I when I think
00:54:53.000 –> 00:54:54.000
of it, when I see it, when I
00:54:54.000 –> 00:54:55.000
I believe that,
00:54:56.000 –> 00:54:59.000
you listen, you never not listen.
00:55:02.000 –> 00:55:04.000
Okay. Yeah. But you better have
00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:07.000
the intestinal fortitude and the smartness to be
00:55:07.000 –> 00:55:08.000
able to decipher.
00:55:09.000 –> 00:55:12.000
That’s the big difference right there. Yep.
00:55:12.000 –> 00:55:14.000
Mister Harshberger, my eighth grade history teacher said
00:55:14.000 –> 00:55:17.000
you get two ears, one mouth, using proportional.
00:55:17.000 –> 00:55:19.000
You got it. Doctor Ed Hightower. Man, this
00:55:19.000 –> 00:55:21.000
has been an absolute blast. Thanks for being
00:55:21.000 –> 00:55:22.000
with me, man. Pleasure to be on my
00:55:22.000 –> 00:55:23.000
mind, Brett. Thanks for being on the circuit
00:55:23.000 –> 00:55:25.000
of success. You got it, babe. Thank you.
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