Emmet Penney is an essayist as well as the editor of Grid Brief, and host of the Nuclear Barbarians podcast. In his second appearance on the podcast (his first was July 13, 2021) Penney talks about the May 20 closure of the Palisades nuclear plant in Michigan, his recent essay, “Who killed nuclear energy and how to revive it,” the effort by NGOs, policymakers, and climate activists to push “degrowth,” a move he calls “energy Lysenkoism,” and why we cannot take the electric grid for granted.