Engaged By Design

Kathy Hagler and Robin Graham return to explore the “ME” in their ABCs of Murmuration framework—where awareness, beliefs, and connection lay the foundation for leaderful collaboration.

In this episode of the Engaged By Design Podcast, Dr. Vernon Smith and Dr. Michael Cottam welcome back Dr. Kathy Hagler and Robin Graham, authors of The ABCs of Murmuration.

They unpack the “ME” in their leadership framework—showing how awareness, beliefs, and connection create the foundation for authentic collaboration.

Kathy and Robin share powerful metaphors about starlings, symphonies, and marching bands, as well as the story of Mozart’s Starling.

Robin also shares a moving personal reflection from Durango, illustrating how awareness and connection transform grief into leadership presence.

Key Topics

• Why leadership begins with “ME” before “WE” or “US”
• The ABCs of ME: Awareness, Beliefs, Connection
• Lessons from starlings, symphonies, and marching bands
• Robin’s Durango story: grief, awareness, and connection
• The dance steps of leaderful collaboration: step up, step back, step together
• The ABCs of Murmuration (available on Amazon)
• Manifesting Murmuration Workshop — ABCsOfMurmuration.com
• Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning (inspiration on choice and awareness)

Reflection Question

Here is your reflection question for this week:

What small step can you take today to connect more authentically with yourself and others?

Call to Action

👉 Visit EngagedByDesign.com to learn more, explore coaching opportunities, and download resources from MACRO Leadership.

💬 Comment on the YouTube episode, share your reflection, and subscribe for more leadership insights.

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

In Part Two of their conversation with Dr. Guieswende Rouamba, Michael and Vernon explore how storytelling brings project management to life.

Guieswende introduces us to Bob and George — two characters who illustrate resilience, resistance, and the power of leading without a title. Together, they discuss how story helps us make meaning, navigate change, and see ourselves in the leadership journey.

A must-listen for instructional designers, educators, and anyone who leads from the middle.

Highlights:

• Why Guieswende wrote the second half of his book as a story.
• Lessons from Bob and George on leadership and resistance.
• Why resistance is normal in change management.
• How to lead without authority.
• The role of empathy and storytelling in building trust.
• How project management principles translate into everyday leadership.

Resources Mentioned:

• The Instructional Designer’s Guide to Project Management by Dr. Guieswende Rouamba
• MACRO Leadership by Dr. Michael Cottam
• EngagedByDesign.com – Free MACRO Leadership Workbook

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

In this episode, Dr. Vernon Smith and Dr. Michael Cottam talk with Dr. Guieswende Rouamba, learning designer at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign and author of The Instructional Designer’s Guide to Project Management.

Guieswende shares how project management helps instructional designers navigate complex collaborations and reduce burnout. He introduces his “Three Ps” — People, Process, and Pedagogy — and explains why relationships are at the heart of every successful project.

Whether you lead design teams, teach online, or manage academic innovation, this conversation will remind you that the key to great outcomes starts with great people.

Highlights:

• Guieswende’s journey from Burkina Faso to Illinois.
• How project management skills elevate instructional design.
• The “domain dispute” between faculty and designers — and how empathy resolves it.
• The Three Ps framework: People, Process, and Pedagogy.
• Positive psychology in project management.
• How project management helps instructional designers prevent burnout.

Resources Mentioned:

• The Instructional Designer’s Guide to Project Management by Dr. Guieswende Rouamba
• MACRO Leadership by Dr. Michael Cottam
• EngagedByDesign.com – Free leadership tools and downloads

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

Description:
Project management isn’t just for boardrooms or classrooms—it shows up in art studios, Renaissance fairs, and even around the gaming table. In part two of our conversation with Bridget Davis, PMP, CSM, DASM, we dive into how project management skills translate beyond formal work.

Bridget shares her entrepreneurial journey with Heathen Works, her woodburning art business, where planning, budgeting, and production all rely on project management principles. She also reveals the uncanny parallels between Agile project management and Dungeons & Dragons. From Dungeon Masters acting like Scrum Masters to players learning trust, teamwork, and risk-taking, the lessons are as practical as they are fun.

We also reflect on how risks—whether in a game or in higher education leadership—can be reframed as opportunities. From critical dice rolls gone wrong to institutional enrollment declines, Bridget and the hosts share stories of turning setbacks into innovations.

What You’ll Learn:

• How project management supports entrepreneurship and creative businesses.

• Why Dungeons & Dragons provides a surprising but effective model for team leadership.

• The power of games in executive training and experiential learning.

• How to reframe risks and failures into opportunities for growth.

• Why curiosity is the key to engaging learners and building trust.

Mentioned in This Episode:

• Heathen Works: Heathen Works 

• Ravenwood Renaissance Festival, Winchester, VA

• How to Be More D&D: Face Your Dragons, Be More Adventurous, and Live Your Best Geeky Life: https://amzn.to/4gBMM8q 

• Dungeons & Dragons Starter Sets:  https://amzn.to/4pAYcO9 

• Rio Salado College “Rio Way” experiential training and team games

Reflection Question:
How can you apply your professional skills to the most important passions in your life?

Subscribe & Connect:
🎙️ Subscribe to the Engaged By Design Podcast for more insights.
🌐 Learn more about MACRO Leadership coaching and workshops at https://engagedbydesign.com .
👍 Like, comment, and share to support our work.

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

Description:
Higher education is a world of committees, governance, and constant change. How can project management thrive in this environment? In this episode of the Engaged By Design Podcast, hosts Dr. Vernon Smith and Dr. Michael Cottam sit down with Bridget Davis, PMP, CSM, DASM, to explore how both Agile and predictive project management frameworks can help leaders succeed in academic settings.

Bridget brings a unique background—religion, Viking Studies, and a passion for music—that shaped her approach to leading projects. She shares lessons on trust, planning, and accountability, along with candid stories of pitfalls and wins from her career.

Whether you’re a leader in higher ed, a project manager in another sector, or simply someone who wants to see teams work better together, you’ll find inspiration and practical advice in this episode.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why higher education requires blending Agile and predictive project management.

• How to create flexible frameworks tailored to specific projects and teams.

• The importance of planning, documenting, and clarifying roles early.

• How Scrum builds trust and consistency through small, iterative cycles.

• Why CliftonStrengths is a valuable tool for building stronger, more collaborative teams.

Mentioned in This Episode:

• MACRO Leadership book: https://amzn.to/3IAp2VG

• The Speed of Trust by Stephen M.R. Covey: https://amzn.to/3KkvUHh 

• CliftonStrengths® assessments & coaching: Engage with us for your personal and professional leadership growth

• The American College of Financial Services: The American College of Financial Services

• Scrum framework overview: Scrum.org

Reflection Question:
How might you bring more predictable structure—or more agility—into your current projects?

Subscribe & Connect:
🌐 Learn more about MACRO Leadership coaching and workshops at https://engagedbydesign.com .
👍 Like, comment, and share to support our work.

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

Description

Leadership often happens in the middle—not at the very top. In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr. Michelle Loyet, we explore how to lead effectively without relying on positional authority. Michelle shares her experiences at Webster University, where she learned to build coalitions, invite people into change, and balance responsibilities up, down, and across the institution.

Michelle also opens up about her unexpected background in roller derby and the leadership lessons it taught her—resilience, persistence, and teamwork. We also discuss Webster’s long history of serving military students, and how strategies like tuition alignment and transfer credit help meet their needs. This episode is full of practical insights for anyone managing from the middle of an organization and looking to create lasting impact.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

- How to manage up, down, and across with authenticity

- Why inviting people into innovation works better than coercion

- The power of complementary strengths in leadership partnerships

- How roller derby shaped Michelle’s perspective on persistence and teamwork - Practical strategies for supporting military students in higher education

Timestamps:

00:00 – Welcome and introductions

02:00 – Managing from the middle: strategies for success

06:00 – The importance of invitation vs. coercion

12:00 – Complementary strengths in leadership partnerships

14:00 – Resilience and persistence: lessons from roller derby

20:00 – Role models, coaching, and team-building with Yelp Roulette

28:00 – Supporting military students through tuition alignment and transfer credit

32:00 – Reflections on leadership impact

33:00 – Outro & reflection question

Reflection Question for Viewers:

What can you do this week to build coalitions of support—up, down, and across your organization—to move an important initiative forward?

Links & Resources:

📖 MACRO Leadership – https://amzn.to/3IAp2VG 

📘 Free MACRO Leadership Workbook – https://engagedbydesign.com 

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

Episode 22

What if your academic background could become your greatest leadership strength?

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Dr. Michelle Loyet—known as the “Shenanigans Wrangler” in the book MACRO Leadership—joins Dr. Michael Cottam and Dr. Vernon Smith to share how anthropology became her leadership superpower. As interim Associate Vice President for Enrollment Management at Webster University, Michelle has spent nearly two decades helping the institution innovate, adapt, and serve learners around the globe.

In this episode, Michelle reveals how anthropology’s tools—cultural observation, data analysis, and adaptability—translate into practical leadership skills. She also takes us inside the launch of Agile sprints at Webster University, where quick wins, visible progress, and language shifts helped overcome skepticism and accelerate change.

- How anthropology prepares leaders to understand and adapt to organizational culture
- Why data analysis and meaning-making are vital leadership skills
- The story of Webster University’s first Agile sprints and their impact on student success
- How quick wins and visible accountability built momentum for change
- The role of language in shaping culture ('impediments,' 'how might we,' and no 'devil’s advocate')

00:00 – Welcome and introductions
02:00 – Michelle’s journey from anthropology to administration
06:00 – Anthropology as a corporate superpower
10:00 – Launching Agile sprints at Webster University
15:00 – The power of quick wins and visible accountability
20:00 – Overcoming naysayers and skeptics
30:00 – Building coalitions across academics and IT
35:00 – Visualizing progress with sprint boards
45:00 – Language shifts that changed the culture
48:00 – Outro & reflection question

How might you apply your own disciplinary superpowers—whether anthropology, linguistics, biology, or statistics—to your leadership practice this week?

📖 MACRO Leadership book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3IAp2VG 
📘 Free MACRO Leadership Workbook: https://engagedbydesign.com

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

Episode 21

Competency-Based Learning and the Future of Work — with Dr. Calli Morrison (Part 3 of 3)

In the final part of our three-part series, Dr. Cali Morrison dives into the world of competency-based education (CBE), micro-credentials, and the future of learning and work. She shares how she helped build direct assessment CBE programs at American Public University System, explains the value of micro-credentials and NanoCerts, and discusses how digital badges give learners visibility and ownership of their skills.

Calli also reflects on her current work at EdAssist, where she helps healthcare organizations build career pathways that grow talent from within. Along the way, she offers leadership lessons for innovators—especially women—about embracing failure, taking risks, and engaging learners through authentic assessment.

This episode highlights how education and workforce development are converging, and how innovation can serve real learners.

• How Calli became involved in competency-based education (CBE)
• The difference between direct assessment and credit-hour CBE models
• Why micro-credentials and NanoCerts give learners valuable milestones
• How digital badges empower learners to own and share their achievements
• Calli’s current work with EdAssist building healthcare career pathways
• Leadership lessons on innovation, risk, and supporting women leaders
• Why authentic assessment and co-learning engage more learners effectively

How can you build in authentic assessment to make learning more visible and relevant?

• Learn more about Engaged By Design: https://engagedbydesign.com
• Explore coaching services: https://www.engagedbydesign.com/store
• Free 10-Lesson MACRO Leadership Course: https://www.engagedbydesign.com/macroleadershipbook
• Get the book: MACRO Leadership on Amazon: https://amzn.to/476zHRP

The technology we used 

• Shure MV7+ Microphone: https://amzn.to/4obxnPC  

• Shure MV7i Microphone with Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3GX0Jkb 

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

Episode 20

In this second part of our three-part series, Dr. Cali Morrison takes us inside two major projects that shaped the future of higher education: Transparency by Design and the Predictive Analytics Reporting (PAR) Framework. These efforts paved the way for program-level transparency, skills-based hiring, and data-driven student success strategies.

Calli shares how Transparency by Design helped adult learners make informed decisions by comparing program-level outcomes, and how the PAR Framework demonstrated the power of shared data to predict student persistence and drive interventions. Along the way, she tells the unforgettable story of her daughter Bryce—the 'PAR baby'—born on the very day a Gates Foundation grant proposal was due.

This conversation highlights the importance of transparency, collaboration, and the human side of innovation in education.

• The origins and goals of Transparency by Design
• Why program-level data is vital for adult learners making college choices
• How accreditors and even the Department of Defense adopted metrics from the initiative
• The creation and impact of the Predictive Analytics Reporting (PAR) Framework
• The unforgettable story of the 'PAR baby' and the human side of innovation

How could your team use data not just to measure, but to intervene early and change student outcomes?

• Learn more about Engaged By Design: https://engagedbydesign.com
• Get the book: MACRO Leadership on Amazon: https://amzn.to/476zHRP
• Free 10-Lesson MACRO Leadership Course: https://www.engagedbydesign.com/macroleadershipbook 

The technology we used 

• Shure MV7+ Microphone: https://amzn.to/4obxnPC  

• Shure MV7i Microphone with Audio Interface: https://amzn.to/3GX0Jkb 

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education

Episode 19

In this episode of the Engaged By Design Podcast, Dr. Vernon Smith and Dr. Michael Cottam kick off a three-part conversation with Dr. Cali Morrison, Senior Director of Workforce Education and Strategy at EdAssist by Bright Horizons.

Calli shares how a rural sociology class—and one infamous challenge involving cow urine—helped spark her unexpected entry into higher education. She reflects on the power of engaged learning, the importance of clear learning objectives, and why she walked away from a major when a professor couldn’t explain the purpose of an assignment.

Most importantly, Cali reveals her personal “why”: to help adults keep learning throughout their lives without giving up the parts of life that matter most. Inspired by her parents and mentors, she has built a career committed to making education more flexible, accessible, and meaningful.

• How Cali “fell into” higher education through the Montana State University Extension Service
• The rural sociology professor whose teaching style left a lasting impression
• The infamous “cow urine for an A” story and what it says about engaged learning
• Why unclear learning objectives once led Cali to change her career path
• Cali’s personal “why” and how family experiences shaped her mission in education

Where in your courses, programs, or trainings do you need to clarify the learning objectives so learners know exactly why it matters?

• Learn more about Engaged By Design: https://engagedbydesign.com
• Free 10-Lesson MACRO Leadership Course: https://www.engagedbydesign.com/macroleadershipbook

Join us at www.engagedbydesign.com to learn more about

• The Course Design Accelerator 
• Faculty-in-the-Loop AI in Higher Education