The beginning of the end! In this episode, Katie talks with Luke, a pastry chef turned mental health counselor.

We talk about several differences between 3 and 9, and spend a lot of time diving into what it means for a 9 to "wake up" and start chasing after their own life.

Luke has an incredible knack for explaining difficult concepts, so this is a good one to listen to if you want to understand the 9s in your life.