Edited highlights of our full conversation.

Jan Jacobs and Leo Premutico are the Founders of Johannes Leonardo. They describe themselves as a creative and effectiveness agency who exist to create a world of courageous brands.

However you define the company, they've demonstrated exceptional courage and produced relentless creativity for 14 years.

Their starting point for both comes not from leaning in but stepping back.

In years to come, historians will write about this period as one of unprecedented change. An epoch that separated what came before from what is still to be defined.

Today, we live with two new realities.

Yesterday was an unreliable indicator of what today became.

And tomorrow, anything is possible.

Leading a business that thrives in that kind of environment has become exponentially more challenging than it was even six months ago.

'Everyone stay home.' That created a level playing field that is now officially over.

Now comes the hard part, redesigning your company so that it can win when there are no rules, no norms, no references, no comps and no best practices.

Now, leaders are really going to have to lead.

Which makes Leo's recognition of listening as a creative act, an invaluable building block in the road to the future.

If you're listening to this podcast, I'm willing to bet that your company is filled with brilliant minds.

Listening to them to get help with the answers is a good place to start.

Listening to them to get help with the questions is even better.

And makes whatever you come up with, not only original, but a competitive advantage.