Edited highlights of our full conversation.

What kind of company are you building?

Karl Lieberman and Neal Arthur are respectively the Global Chief Creative Officer and Global Chief Operating Officer of Wieden + Kennedy.

Few companies have reached the creative heights of Wieden + Kennedy. None, that I can think of, have sustained those heights for most of the last forty years.

Karl and Neal stepped into their global roles seven months after the beginning of the pandemic. How do you lead a culture opposed to rules through a time when there are no rules?

The leaders of creative businesses are usually adventurers. They relish the fact that accepting the ambiguous and the unknown are lines 1 and 2 in the job description.

But, as human beings, we are all comforted by the familiar and the known. Even the adventurers eventually turn for home.

And yet, if your goal as a leader is to meet the future in a fair fight, then welcoming ambiguity and uncertainty are no longer enough. Turning for the safety of home will leave you behind.

Creativity is the world's most powerful force. It's time to build flexible businesses that unleash it. It's time for leaders to let creativity loose.