Edited highlights of our full conversation.

What do you need to know and when do you need to know it?

Sir Martin Sorrell first appeared on the show in 2019, and in that conversation, I was struck by his pride in building companies that provide the livelihoods for hundreds of thousands of people.

Sir Martin is a polarizing figure. But he is, of course, much more human than his public persona has shown over the years.

He is, also, I find, increasingly self-reflective.

What do you need to know and when do you need to know it?

Those questions sit at the heart of modern leadership.

Knowledge is indeed power. Demand too much knowledge too soon, and you can restrict the curiosity and the exploration on which creativity and innovation depend.

Ask too few questions and wait too long, and you can expose the business to unsustainable and perhaps even catastrophic risk.

The best leaders, I find, have thought through the questions, 'What do I need to know and when do I need to know it?' and they put in place a clear set of expectations and practices that create clarity and consistency for the people around them.

Sir Martin, famously, held very tight reins on his companies. Tighter than many liked. And perhaps his companies could have achieved even more if he had held those reins a little more loosely. But he has built companies that are undeniably creative and undeniably successful.

Creativity requires room to breathe. But it does not require, nor does it expect, chaos in order to thrive.

It needs simply a consistent set of conditions.

If you are clear and consistent about how you create those conditions, your ability to unlock the potential of others goes up exponentially.