In this episode I host part 2 of an ongoing dialogue between Rupert Spira: a teacher of the direct path method of Advaita and an internationally acclaimed ceramic artist; and Henry Shukman, Zen teacher and award winning poet and writer.

Rupert and Henry discuss the path of deep training in both art and spirituality, why traditional forms are repositories of generational understanding, and the meaning of spiritual friendship.

Rupert reflects on how art points to truth, and Henry discusses Koan training as a means to stabilise awakening.

Rupert and and Henry also reflect on what it takes to create effective art and why it is vital for the apprentice to surpass the master.

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Video version: www.guruviking.com

Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

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Topics include:

00:00 - Intro

00:47 - Rupert on Henry’s zen memoir

03:46 - Henry on Rupert’s books

06:01 - Evolution of Rupert’s art from ceramics to language

13:00 - Discipline teaches the process of art

15:42 - The student must surpass the teacher

20:06 - Premature teaching vs submission to deep training

25:30 - Henry’s journey as a poet

30:17 - Imitation before innovation

33:57 - Koan training to stabilise awakening

36:48 - Forms of the tradition are the repositories of generations of understanding

39:33 - Key moments in Henry’s koan training

42:48 - 1-1 teaching vs group teaching

49:02 - Are new koans evolving?

52:52 - Rupert and Henry discuss koans

57:18 - What is required of the artist to make effective art?

01:00:26 - What Henry’s art seeks to convey

01:06:38 - Rupert on how art points to truth

01:12:47 - Art of expressing suffering

01:16:05 - The experience of artistic work

01:21:54 - The master’s view

01:24:31 - Rupert and Henry on Steve’s facilitation

01:27:18 - On teaching

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Previous dialogue between Spira and Shukman:
- https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep131-art-spirituality-rupert-spira-henry-shukman

To find out more about Rupert Spira, visit:

- https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep124-art-of-awakening-rupert-spira

- https://rupertspira.com/

To find out more about Henry Shukman, visit:

- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=shukman

- https://www.mountaincloud.org/about/henry-shukman/

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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:

- www.guruviking.com

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Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James