In this episode, I am joined by Gerald Ilyas Klawatsch, Sufi musician, music therapist, and founder of the international Ensemble Ak Pirim.

Ilyas recalls stories of his Sufi path, his meeting and discipleship under his Sufi sheik, and stories of profound spiritual connection and transcendence through devotional music and religious practice.

Ilyas describes Sufism as a love relationship, reveals his own difficult childhood, and explains how to stabilise divine ecstasy in the human body.

Ilyas also tells the remarkable life story of his spiritual teacher, emphasises the importance of testing a guru, and reflects on the healing potential of religious practice.

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Video version: www.guruviking.com

Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

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00:00 - Intro

00:50 - Names and titles in Sufism

02:46 - The death of Gerald’s master, Dr Rahmi Oruc Guvenc

03:51 - - Death of the lineage

05:54 - Why didn’t Dr Rahmi Oruc Guvenc pass on his lineage?

07:18 - The intended heir

07:40 - Gerald’s guitar studies and finding Sufism

11:40 - Meeting the master

15:00 - Early Sufi training with the master

17:22 - Sufism is a love relationship

21:47 - Dynamics in the early relationship with the master

23:43 - The remarkable life of Dr Rahmi Oruc Guvenc

36:21 - Islamic Sufism vs Universalist Sufism

38:41 - The love relationship and awakening the heart

44:29 - Stabilising the ecstasy

48:03 - Effects of being in relationship with a master

51:25 - How Gerald dealt with the pain of a difficult upbringing

55:15 - Healing the pain

57:49 - Gerald falls to his knees in front of the master

01:07:58 - Testing the teacher

01:10:33 - Sufi music therapy

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To find out more about Gerald Ilyas Klawatsch, visit:

- https://bengusu.com/g-ilyas-klatsch/

- https://www.youtube.com/@akpirimensemble

For more interviews, videos, and more visit:

- https://www.guruviking.com

Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James