In this episode Ben talks to two people behind an innovative initiative to develop the next generation of primary care leaders. The NHS@2030 programme was developed under the auspices of NHS England, the Thames Valley Strategic Clinical Network and the Thames Valley and Wessex Leadership Academy with the intention “…to grow individual confidence, courage and the conviction to transform care, and establish a system of continuous quality improvement for patients and primary care teams alike” In fact, the content of the programme was a co-production with its participants. To hear all about the programme and how this co-production process works, Ben talks to Marion Lynch from NHS England South and former CCG Chief Executive Alan Webb.