We spoke with Daniel Jonas about the Jewish and non-Jewish roots of Kabbalah, with insights from his decades of experience in dialogue with not only Christians and Muslims but modern neo-pagans, Wiccans and occultists working in the Western Mystery Tradition. Daniel analyzed the non-Jewish roots of Kabbalah in neo-Platonic and Gnostic philosophies influenced by Greek, Egyptian, Persian and Indian approaches, as well as the Jewish esoteric schools of antiquity and how this affects the theological underpinnings of Judaism. He questioned concepts of cosmogony, emanation, the nature of God, the world and the human soul, the battle between good and evil and the fundamental concept of the magical hero-sage who guides the seeker on the journey to enlightenment and mystical union. We examined how these differ in fundamental terms from rabbinic mysticism and how the rise of Kabbalah in the Middle Ages led to an antinomian, panentheistic approach which centered the power of special humans and their miraculous ability to influence God and the universe. We then went on to track the further influence of kabbalistic thinking on the direction of non-Jewish occultism and mystical secret societies, from the Renaissance through the Enlightenment to the modern era. We looked at theories from anthroposophy to the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, from England to Europe and Russia. Finally, we looked at the impact of these kabbalistic doctrines and philosophies on Judaism itself, from false messiahs like Shabbetai Ẓevi to modern cults of personality built around all-powerful, infallible rabbis and sustained by marketing, fear and despotism. Through our discussion we were able to see how the cumulative effect has been to try and transform Judaism and Torah into a hierarchical system with disturbing similarities to the medieval Church, and how this system has evolved in ways that should worry us all in terms of its impact on our freedom of thought and the civil liberties of those under its control. Daniel also shared his views on the importance of the rational philosophical inquiry of the classical Sepharadic schools and how these can contribute to the realization of the vision and liberties under the governance model envisioned by our sages. We finished by hearing about the pioneering work of the charity Nahamu (co-founded by Daniel) which focuses on analysis, advocacy and policy work to fight for the human rights of Jewish communities struggling our own manifestations of religious extremism.