In just the last two decades, we’ve experienced a global financial crash, a pandemic, multiple wars, and a climate crisis with repeated natural disasters. I talk with LIZZIE WADE about the ideas in APOCALYPSE: How Catastrophe Transformed Our World and Can Forge New Futures. If a society enters a cataclysm - climate crisis, war, plague, etc. - behaving one way and emerges behaving another, she defines that as an apocalypse. Looking at these situations over time reveals they need not end badly. In fact, such transformation have often nudged us forward. Faced with today’s news, we could all use a dose of hope. You can learn more at lizziewade.com