Equiosity

We’re talking with Dr Susan Friedman about schedules of reinforcement. Susan is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals). She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org. It’s a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior.

Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement.

In Part 1 Susan reviewed with us the basics of fixed and variable schedules. She ended with a question about how you get behavior to vary when you are using a continuous reinforcement schedule. That’s where we began in Part 2.

In Part 2 we took a deeper dive into continuous reinforcement schedules. We considered how you get behavior to vary without using a variable reinforcement schedule. Susan talked about a moving away from transactional training to training with assent.

Part 3 Susan helps us to understand schedules of co-variation. She defines conjugate and synchronous schedules and gives some very practical examples, especially as it relates to husbandry procedures that may involve some discomfort. Again she discusses what assent looks like and what it means when an animal says no. What conditions must be present for a conjugate schedule to begin and what conditions mean that the training should stop?

We’re talking with Dr. Susan Friedman about schedules Susan is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: “How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals”. She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org. It’s a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior.

Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement.

In Part 1 Susan reviewed with us the basics of fixed and variable schedules.

In Part 2 we take a deeper dive into continuous reinforcement schedules. We consider how you get behavior to vary without using a variable reinforcement schedule. Susan talks about a move away from transactional training to training with assent. She explains what that means and what it might look like for the learner.

We ended Part 1 with a question about how you get behavior to vary when you are using a continuous reinforcement schedule. That’s where we pick up as we continue the conversation.

This week we’re starting a new series with Dr Susan Friedman. Susan is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals). She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org It’s a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior.

Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement. In this first part Susan gets us all grounded in the subject with a review of the basics. As always, Susan makes clear what can often be confusing definitions and distinctions.

Last week Dominique and I were talking about the Clicker Expo. We shared our impressions of the Expo and then I talked about my presentation on the participating horse.

This week we are continuing to explore what changes in the relationship that established when active participation is encouraged. Active participation very much means that it is safe for our animals to say “no”. We begin with a discussion of what a “no” really represents.

We consider what it means for our animals to have a lifestyle of choice - an expression that comes from Dr. Susan Friedman.

We discuss the use of multiple marker signals, treaties clicks, keep going signals, and treating without clicking. And we celebrate the wonderful clicker expo training community that is part of Karen Pryor’s legacy.

We recorded this podcast on March 20, 2025. Dominique and I were just back from the Clicker Expo so of course that’s what we wanted to talk about. We begin with highlights from the Expo including the Saturday evening keynote presentation given by Jade Fountain. Jade has been involved with Apopo the organization that trains the giant poached rats that are used for land mine detection in Africa and Southeast Asia. Both Dominique and I were enchanted, impressed, fascinated by the rats, their training, and the work they are doing.

In addition to the many other Expo highlights, I talk about my presentation on the Participating Horse. I describe the difference between passive and active participation, both in terms of the procedures used and the outcomes that emerge.

This is a continuation of a conversation that Dominique and I had together at the beginning of February.

Last week we were talking about the new on-line mini courses I am creating out of the original DVD Lesson series. I have recognized for a long time that people no longer have DVD players, so I am transferring the DVDs to the same platform that hosts my on-line clinics. But I’m not just transferring the original lessons, I am providing updates and additional material.

This work is very simple and very complex both at the same time. Most people, even if they are very experienced horse people, can’t jump in at the deep end. To get to the complexity that is really simple and the simplicity that is very complex, you have to start in the kiddie pool. And that’s where the DVDs begin. But it’s the nature of this work that at the same time we’re in kindergarten we’re also in a graduate level seminar.

Now I know there will be people listening to this who are thinking: “I just want to ride my horse. I’m not interested in all this mind-bendy stuff. Just tell me how to teach my horse to stand still so I can get on.”

The problem is you may just want to ride, but if you don’t have a simple, straightforward horse, you may need do dig deeper into this work. It’s all there in the books, the DVD lessons, the on-line courses, the blog, this podcast. I share both basic how-to lessons plus the details that the horses have shown us that make a difference to them.

Converting and up-dating the DVDs is a huge project. It’s also been a fun project. Revisiting these lessons has been filled with surprises. So, of course, I want to talk about them and that’s what Dominique and I did on a very cold February day.

Our conversation covers a wide range of topics: including loopy training, the T’ai chi wall - what that means and how to apply it, shaping on a point of contact, head lowering, and strategies for dealing with pushy horses.

Talking of Many Things Part 1: Loopy Training, The T’ai Chi Wall, Head Lowering and Pushy Horses

This is a continuation of a conversation that Dominique and I had together at the beginning of February. My original intent when we got together was to talk about the new version of the DVD lessons, but then I got sidetracked because I really wanted to share the videos that Muna Clough sent me as part of the on-line clinics. That was the subject of our previous two episodes. I even included a discussion from our monthly on-line coaching session that included contributions from Muna, Anita Schnee and Lucy Butler. Both Anita and Lucy have been frequent guests on the podcast.

So now finally in this week’s episode we’re going to talk about the DVD lessons. I have recognized for a long time that people no longer have DVD players, so I am transferring the DVDs to the same platform that hosts my on-line clinics. But I’m not just transferring the original lessons, I am providing updates and additional material.

For me it’s been a fun project. In the first four lessons I get to watch a very young Robin illustrating key elements in the foundation lessons. Twenty-five years later we are still using those elements and enjoying the many benefits they create.

In this episode we are going to focus primarily on Lesson 2: Ground Manners. This lesson provides the connections, the bridge between traditional pressure and release of pressure training and what we want clicker training to be.

Whether it is a leash attached to a dog collar or a lead attached to a halter, the communication is tactile. It is pressure and release of pressure. For me it has never been a choice between using these tools or never touching them. It has always been about the teaching process and the way we frame our training. One teaching process leads to command-based, do-it-or-else training. The other process leads to cue-based conversations. I want the conversation.

So Lesson #2 seeks to understand the difference. The focus is on shaping on a point of contact. We’ll be talking about loopy training, head lowering, the t’ai chi wall and what to do when you are working with a horse who falls over his inside shoulder and crowds into you. That’s something I know a lot of people struggle with when they try to lead their horses so I’m sure this topic will be of interest.

This is Part 2 of a conversation that Dominique and I had together at the beginning of February.

I’ve been sharing a remarkable series of videos from one of my on-line clients, Muna Clough. In the previous episode I described the videos Muna sent me and the remarkable changes that occurred over a six day period. I shared Muna’s videos with my monthly coaching session group. The videos sparked a fascinating discussion about the power of tiny movements. We’re joined by Muna Clough, Anita Schnee, and Lucy Butler. Anita is a Feldenkrais Practitioner. Lucy manages the River Haven Animal Sanctuary in Rhode Island. Both have been frequent guests on this podcast.

This is an unusual podcast. I’m going to be sharing a video with you. Now I know it’s odd to share a video on an audio format but this is no ordinary video. We’re going to be looking at a remarkable change in a horse. The horse is owned by one of the participants in my on-line clinics, Muna Clough.

I won’t spoil the ending of the story by telling you much more about her horse. What I will say is this episode includes a detailed description of the runway lesson. I use the runway lesson to teach horses to step onto mats so it is part of the core foundation lessons.

The runway lesson is a fascinating lesson. A beginner can succeed with it. And later when that same handler has become more finessed in her handling skills, she can use the runway lesson to transform a horse’s balance. It is one of my favorite patterned exercises, so I’m delighted we’re turning the spotlight on it in this episode.

This is part three of a conversation Dominique and I had at the end of January 2025.

Part 1 was a tribute to Karen Pryor.

Part 2 was a celebration of Robin’s 30th birthday. I don’t know his exact birthday so I am celebrating all year long. For me, 30 seems like such an important milestone for a horse to reach. It’s like a person reaching their 90th birthday - it’s quite an accomplishment, especially if they are still in good health.

Robin has played an important role in the development of equine clicker training. In the previous episode I shared some of the many ways in which he showed us what is possible.

Thirty years is a long time. When your horses reach their senior years that raises the question of what comes next. That’s what we’re going to talk about in this episode. Even if you are the one in your twenties and you’ve just gotten a young horse to start out with, this is something to think about. Horses live a long time. The full arc of their years not only takes us through many changes in our own lives, they help to shape those changes.