Today we’re joined by our good friend and returning guest, Lee Fields. Lee is a kind and brilliant soul, and helped us facilitate a fascinating conversation on the stories we live in the framework of fiction, memoir, and non-fiction. 

2:20 Creek gives us all a pumpkin spiced latte update! 

5:00 Lee on how temperament and personality develop the stories we hold

6:30 The brain as a pattern-finding machine

10:15 Fiction. Memoir. Non-fiction.

11:30 How fiction, memoir, and non-fiction show up in the lives of Lee [Type 1] and Drew [Type 3]

16:15 Creek talks to his housemate about ghosts [and about Type 4 and these matters]

19:00 Story and somatic responses

22:00 Fiction, memoir, and non-fiction in Abram’s life

24:00 Moving from fiction to memoir to non-fiction

27:00 The untold stories we carry

29:26 The 9 different ways we’re striving to *feel* a certain way

37:00 An exercise from Lee to name our relationship with our stories. “I am…” // “I have to be…” 

Get in touch with Lee via instagram: https://www.instagram.com/enneagrammatic/

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

This was a fun, free-wheeling conversation on one of the lesser known foundational pieces to the modern enneagram: Oscar Ichazo’s Enneagram of Traps. The Traps are the ways each type falls into as a mistaken remedy to [attempt to] overcome the type’s mental fixation. Inspired by Abram’s Instagram series on the traps [@integratedenneagram] we riff on the fixations, the holy ideas, and how the traps try (and fail) to reconcile them. 

2:00 The history of the enneagram of traps

3:58 The mental FIXATIONS of our types

3:55 The HOLY IDEA as the true way to alleviate the fixation

5:24 Mario Sikora’s take on phenomenology vs. ontology

6:55 Traps as maladaptive patterns

8:10 Why Creek drinks pumpkin spice lattes

9:45 The traps for each type 

28:30 How to begin to identify fallen into our traps

29:50 How the traps impact our stories

30:30 “We are walking metaphors living out a story that our whole body believes.” - Tom Condon

32:00 Resources on the Traps: Transpersonal Psychologies by Ichazo, Sandra Maitri’s Enneagram of Spirituality, and Patrick O’Leary’s The Enneagram

32:15 Buy Creek a pumpkin spiced latte! Venmo: @Seth-Creekmore

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

In this week’s episode, we have the privilege of talking with the one and only Beatrice Chestnut. Beatrice joined us to talk about her new book with Uranio Paes, The Enneagram Guide to Waking Up. But, the conversation doesn’t stop there. We get to know Beatrice beyond her enneagram teaching and writing, and the result was a fun and meaningful conversation. 

6:10 - Beatrice’s thoughts on the enneagram and our stories

7:40 - Getting to know Beatrice [hobbies, interests, TV shows] 

14:10 - The inspiration behind her new book

17:45 - Her experience co writing with Uranio Paes

19:30 - How her perspectives shifted since she wrote her earlier books

21:00 - How to engage the book

22:10 - “Falling asleep” and “waking up”

25:15 - How do we know we’re awake?

28:20 - The path before each type

33:00 - How Beatrice approaching coaching with the enneagram

38:00 - The Enneagram and Dante’s Divine Comedy as a map of process

40:00 - The dangers of over-pathologizing Type 4s

43:00 - Beatrice’s approach to the subtypes

53:00 - The shadows of the subtypes

59:05 - Beatrice talks about the shadows of our subtypes [Abram: SX9 // Creek: SP4 // Drew: SP3]

1:11:35 - How to follow Beatrice’s work

 Follow Beatrice: cpenneagram.com // beatricechestnut.com 

The Enneagram Guide to Waking Up

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

The one, the only Dr. Jerome Wagner joins us for a conversation on the polarities of the enneagram types. Jerome brings some unique wisdom that he was kind enough to share. His four R’s are brilliant and helpful. Jerry’s books and teachings have been so foundational to the enneagram community that he was named an “Honorary Founder of the International Enneagram Association.” Enjoy this conversation. 

4:50 - Who is Dr. Jerry Wagner? 

6:40 - Jerry’s introduction to the enneagram [in the early ‘70s!] and his enneagram-focused dissertation

9:08 - Jerry’s enneagram elevator pitch 

10:15 - Jerry’s experience as a Type 5

12:10 - Integrating Polarities [the 4 R’s: recognize, re-frame, re-own, re-cycle]

21:00 - Examples of how the polarities work by type

1:00:00 - Toxic positivity vs. toxic negativity

1:02:15 - How polarities help us with typing 

1:04:00 - Exercises to explore polarities

1:07:00 - A parting word from Jerry 

Follow Dr. Wagner’s work [articles, books, trainings, etc.} at: www.enneagramspectrum.com  

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

Welcome to another short episode where we answer one of the most googled enneagram questions: What’s the rarest enneagram type? 

2:00 - Creek makes his case for the Type 4, and Abram thinks 9s and 4s are the ones asking the question

5:30 - Is it empirically possibly to know this? 

6:30 - Raises the question: What’s the most common type? 

7:30 - A theory about 3s, 6s, 9s

8:50 - Why do people want to know this? 

10:00 - The deeply human need to be unique.

11:00 - Nature vs. nurture

11:30 - The types we have the most of in our lives (and the least)

14:25 - Harmony triads/object relations as social groups

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

WARNING: episode contains general references to childhood trauma and abuse. | Goodness this was an amazing conversation with the wise and kind “Dr. B.” Dr. B is a clinical psychologist specializing in early childhood development. Dr. B’s insights on story in early childhood, resilience, and ACEs [adverse childhood experiences] 

7:00 - Dr. B explains her work. 

10:00 - How are our stories built in early childhood? 

11:55 - Quick overview of the 10 ACEs [adverse childhood experiences]

15:20 - What happens in adulthood when people experience ACEs in childhood? 

20:30 - The “still face experiment” with infants

26:00 - How does personality develop? 

33:55 - How do we parent/uncle kids with this knowledge? “Shared conversations in appropriate ways.”

41:25 - How to build a coherent narrative

47:45 - Implicit vs. explicit memory “Ghosts in the nursery”

58:00 - Resilience - the story of triumph over trauma

Dr. B’s Website - Leave a Lifeprint Academy - https://www.drbconnections.com/

Check out Dr. B’s podcast with Creek “Delusional Optimism” wherever you listen to podcast

A Kid’s Company About - https://akidsco.com/

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

For our first Fathom 15 of the season, we’re discussing a most frequently asked question on the enneagram, according to Google Analytics:

What are the enneagram triads? 

3:00 - There are multiple triadic groupings of the enneagram. 

3:45 - The three centers of intelligence

6:00 - The stances [social styles/Hornevian groups]

8:10 - The harmony triads

8:55 - Object relations: Dominant affect groups 

10:30 - Conflict styles: The harmonic groups

12:15 - How our type is connected to other types in multiple ways 

**If you like Fathoms, please leave a review!**

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

To kick off our season’s theme of “Story” we talk with Storybrand Certified Guide/marketing/branding guru David Tofilon. David is a kind, wise, soul who provides some profound insight into unpacking our stories. 

1:15 - David describes himself in 3 words

3:30 - What is a Storybrand Certified Guide and what does it have to this podcast? 

4:30 - An overview of a “brand script”

6:45 - Re: aspirational identity and how it’s not an outcome or a destination

10:10 - Why is it important for someone to know their story? 

13:15 - What happens when people live an unhealthy/unhelpful story. 

15:45 - Brandscript - After aspirational identity, there is character want. Then we encounter the PROBLEM [external, internal, philosophical]

19:15 - Understanding your story’s problem enneagramatically. 

22:00 - Abram and Drew riff on ego, polarity, and our story’s problem. 

25:45 - Creek’s experience with this as a Type 4.

30:00 - When the “wolf” catches up to us. 

33:00 - Moving beyond the problem of our stories, what comes next? [Hint: it’s empathy and authority]

40:45 - Stepping into an authority that is motivated by empathy

42:20 - “connect, then correct” 

44:15 - Implementing a plan to live a better story. 

48:00 - Your call to action…

49:00 - Avoiding getting tangled and simplifying this to a 3 step plan

51:00 - Creek muses on the importance of our dreams. 

53:00 - The importance of clarity…

57:00 - Parting words from David - “Clarity is worth the risk.”

Brandscript Summary:  Aspirational Identity —> Character Want —> Problem —> Empathy —> Authority —> Call to Action

Storybrand framework based off of Donald Miller’s book “Building a Storybrand.” 

Learn more here

Connect with David: www.tofilonconsulting.com // Insta: @dtofilon

**If you like Fathoms, please leave a review!**

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

In this Introduction to Season 3 of Fathoms, the Seths and Drew spent a weekend at a cabin in the woods in Kentucky. We turned the microphones on and talked about our hopes for this season. We also reflect on previous seasons, talk about Creek’s Kentucky roots, and we INTRODUCED THIS SEASON’S THEME. Of course, Abram has a quote or two to share.

Thanks so much for your patience while we put together this season. We’re excited to share it with you.

**If you like Fathoms, please leave a review!**

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Fathoms | An Enneagram Podcast: “Discovering our inner depths, one fathom at a time.”

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Co-hosts: Seth Abram, Seth Creekmore, Drew Moser

Production/Editing: Seth Creekmore

• Follow us on Instagram: @fathoms.enneagram

We are excited to finally be launching our trailer for this season. It’s been a long time coming but we’re excited to share what we’ve been learning. 

Our theme this year is, Story. Knowing our story, Finding what stories to drop, and Understanding the stories of others. 

We hope you’ll join us this season!

Song: Can I Be Honest - Eric Lee Carpenter