Firing The Man

Firing The Man

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Firing The Man episodes

  • Episode 100 - How and Why We Fired The Man - Top Guests Ranked

    Episode 100



    Welcome to Episode 100 of Firing the Man! In this special episode, we look back into the reasons we started this podcast, the lessons we learned from our guests, and most importantly, our long and inspiring journey to firing the man. 

    Tune in now to this special episode!

    [00:01 - 06:41] Opening Segment

    • Why we started this podcast

    [06:42 - 13:46] Our Journey to Episode 100

    • Our experiences the moment we fired the man
    • Are you a newbie entrepreneur?

    [13:47 - 18:16] Exiting a Business

    • A career-defining book on entrepreneurship
    • Lessons from ecommerce legend, Carlos Alvarez
    • How to turn $25,000 into a 9-figure exit

    [18:17 - 23:15] Expanding a Business

    • How to expand your Amazon business
    • What to learn about sourcing and logistics 
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400

    [23:16 - 32:10] High-Quality Podcasting

    • How to write words that sell
    • Producing high-quality podcast episodes
    • Don’t miss this episode where we got drunk!

    [32:11 - 42:21] Giving Value

    • Giving value to the Firing the Man Nation
    • A life-changing book by Hal Elrod
    • What our guests say in the Fire Round

    [42:22 - 46:12] Closing Segment 

    • Connect with us!
      • Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “As we hit roadblocks and struggles and feel like we’re constantly putting out fires, it’s nice to know that this is the norm. Business is hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it.” - David Schomer 

    “It’s a very lonely world being an entrepreneur and you need a support system and you need other people that are doing what you're doing in this space.” - Ken Wilson


    Resources mentioned

    • 4: How to Be More Efficient & Productive with Your Time
    • 19: Carlos Alvarez on Overcoming Obstacles in Your E-Commerce Business
    • 41: Selling Internationally on Amazon with Expert – Kevin Sanderson
    • 45: Buy then Build with Author Walker Diebe
    • 62: Francois Jaffres from Noviland – Get Your Physical Product Sourcing Blackbelt
    • 65: Navigating Walmart’s E-Commerce Platform with Experienced Seller Miro Posavec
    • 79: The EXITpreneur’s Playbook – Author Joe Valley
    • 81: Navigating Expensive Freight & Supply Chain Disruptions with Francois Jaffres
    • 91: How to Scale from $0 to $80 million on Amazon with Adam Feinberg from Web Deals Direct
    • Buy Then Build
    • Subtle Words That Sell
    • The EXITPreneur's Playbook
    • The Miracle Morning

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    48 min
  • Best Shopify Apps and Ecommerce KPIs with Shopify Expert Chase Clymer

    Episode 99


    Chase Clymer is the Co-founder at Electric Eye, where he and his team create Shopify-powered sales machines from strategic design, development, and marketing decisions. He is also the host of Honest Ecommerce, a weekly podcast where they provide online store owners with honest, actionable advice to increase their sales and grow their business. 

    Tune in now and learn from Chase the best Shopify apps and ecommerce KPIs!

    [00:01 - 05:46] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Chase Clymer
    • Chase’s journey from punk rock bands to ecommerce

    [05:47 - 15:15] The Hardest Part of Ecommerce

    • Why he started the podcast, Honest Ecommerce
    • The hardest part of ecommerce according to Chase
    • The challenge posed by the latest iOS update

    [15:16 - 23:56] How to Boost Website Traffic

    • Here are pro tips from Chase to drive traffic to your website
    • Chase shares some interesting thoughts about influencer marketing
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400

    [23:57 - 33:46] Content Creation is Key

    • The power of investing in brand building
    • Chase talks about tactical strategies you can apply now
    • He  breaks down the Brand Scaling Framework
      • The KPIs you should prioritize 

    [33:47 - 45:35] Why Niche Down 

    • The Shopify updates you can leverage for your business
    • Why installing many apps into your store is not advisable
    • How to transition from freelancer to founder
      • Why you should niche down

    [45:36 - 49:52] Closing Segment 

    • Know more about Chase in the Fire Round!
    • Connect with Chase
      • Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “The hardest part, and this is something that no agency, consultancy, magician, nobody can help you with, is finding product-market fit. That is a founder’s job.” - Chase Clymer

    “Failure is inevitable and you’re going to fail when you get started. Just move past it” - Chase Clymer


    Resources mentioned

    • Shopify
    • Klaviyo
    • Freelance to Founder
    • Books
      • Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business
      • Built to Sell
      • Get Rich in the Deep End
      • Brandon Sanderson books


    Email [email protected] to connect with Chase or follow him on LinkedIn. Check out Electric Eye Agency to boost your Shopify sales!

    Are you an ecommerce business owner? Listen to Honest Ecommerce to learn from the experts and grow and scale your business. 


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    52 min
  • How to Avoid Burnout While Working Remote with Harvard MBA Phil Strazzulla

    Episode 98


    Phil Strazzulla is an entrepreneur and the founder of SelectSoftware Reviews, a website dedicated to helping HR and Recruiting teams to find and buy the right software through in-depth, expert advice. Phil started his career working in venture capital before getting his MBA from Harvard Business School. He joins us in this episode to share some tips and strategies to be more productive and avoid burnout in a remote setting. 

    Tune in now and learn from a rockstar entrepreneur!

    [00:01 - 06:31] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Phil Strazzulla
    • Phil tells us why he built SelectSoftware Reviews

    [06:32 - 12:02] How to Build Your Entrepreneurial Mindset

    • Phil shares the story on how he built his entrepreneurial mindset
    • How to overcome the fears of firing the man
    • Why you might still feel unfulfilled even with a good job

    [12:03 - 22:02] Training Yourself to be Productive

    • The ups and downs of entrepreneurship
    • Alternative paths to starting a business
    • How to train yourself to be productive

    [22:03 - 29:08] The Connection Between Boredom and Productivity

    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400
    • How to avoid burnout in a remote setup
      • Why being bored boost productivity
    • Phil gives some tips to manage your emails

    [29:09 - 34:53] Focus and Deep Work in Business

    • The insecurity among entrepreneurs according to Phil
    • The power of focus that you should realize now
    • Is SelectSoftware Reviews applicable for your business?
      • Phil explains their services

    [34:54 - 44:09] The Right Human Resources Software For You

    • Phil shares an interesting observation about human resources
    • What to look for in a software about human resources
    • Know more about Phil in the Fire Round!

    [44:10 - 46:13] Closing Segment 

    • Connect with Phil
      • Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “It’s really important for you to take breaks for you to work really intensely and basically be bored.” - Phil Strazzulla

    “Focus has become one of the core skills of successful people today.” - Phil Strazzulla


    Resources mentioned

    • McKinsey & Company
    • Tim Ferriss
    • FocusMe™
    • Books
      • Deep Work
      • How to Win Friends & Influence People


    Email [email protected] to connect with Phil or follow him on LinkedIn and his personal blog. Check SelectSoftware Reviews out to find the best HR and recruiting software vendors!



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    Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call.  https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon

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    48 min
  • Ups and Downs of Selling an FBA Business to an Aggregator with Chris Shipferling

    Episode 97


    Chris Shipferling is a Managing Partner at Global Wired Advisors, a leading Digital Investment Bank focused on optimizing the business sale process. The approach of the Global Wired Advisors combines decades of merger and acquisition experience with online and e-commerce expertise to increase the transactional value of your greatest asset. In this episode, Chris will help us navigate the exciting but intricate puzzle of selling FBA businesses to aggregators.

    Listen to Chris and learn from an ecommerce superstar!

    [00:01 - 06:43] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Chris Shipferling
      • He shares his journey to ecommerce
    • How he learned Amazon’s Seller Central

    [06:44 - 16:56] What Aggregators Do in Ecommerce

    • Chris talks about the moment when he finally fired the man
    • What does an aggregator do?
    • It’s a good time to be a seller now
      • Chris explains

    [16:57 - 26:02] Impacts of COVID-19 to Ecommerce

    • Impacts of COVID-19 to the ecommerce industry
      • The positive impact of COVID-19 to ecommerce
    • This is what will happen if you have the wrong intermediary
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400

    [26:03 - 36:48] The Ins and Outs of Earnouts

    • Chris talks about “portfolio softness”
    • What to do when you are approached by an aggregator
    • The protections you can build for an earnout

    [36:49 - 45:55] Aggregators vs. Private Equity

    • The difference of the aggregator model to private equity
    • Chris tells us why you should talk to an intermediary
    • Here’s the main reason you should professionalize your business now

    [45:56 - 49:17] Closing Segment 

    • Know more about Chris in the Fire Round!
    • Connect with Chris
      • Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “It’s actually much scarier when you look back at it and way higher risk when you can’t control your own destiny.” - Chris Shipferling

    “We wanna talk to sellers and help them get educated on what it’s like to really take their business seriously to a good process.” - Chris Shipferling


    Resources mentioned

    • Wayfair
    • Evenflo
    • Amazon’s Seller Central
    • Kevin King
    • Thrasio
    • Walmart
    • Book: Good to Great


    Email [email protected] to connect with Chris or follow him on LinkedIn. Visit Global Wired Advisors to optimize your business sale process.


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    Support the show

    51 min
  • Why You Should Hire A-Players from the Philippines with Yoni Kozminski

    Episode 96


    Yoni Kozminski is the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Escala, MultiplyMii, and several successful, yet less noteworthy ventures. Before building Escala and MultiplyMii, he helped scale an Amazon business from 2 million to 5 million in 1 year, leveraging his experience in digital agency. His career has mostly revolved around digital marketing and creative advertising in Australia, Israel and Los Angeles working with Mercedes-Benz, MasterCard, Sony, Medtronic Diabetes, Mondelēz International, and other eight-figure eCommerce brands.

    Listen to Yoni and learn how to hire A-players from the Philippines!

    [00:01 - 04:34] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Yoni Kozminski
    • Yoni talks about his journey into the ecommerce industry

    [04:35 - 14:43] Where to Start in the Hiring Process

    • How solopreneurs can start in their hiring process
    • Why hire virtual assistants from the Philippines
    • Here’s a role that is so important in a business according to Yoni

    [14:44 - 24:30] Building Your “Dream Team”

    • Building your “dream team” for your business
    • Yoni talks about the services offered by Escala
    • His reasons for starting his podcast, Successful Scales

    [24:31 - 29:38] Inventory Management The Right Way

    • Yoni gives a few important tips about managing your inventory
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400
    • How to build your Standard Operating Procedures the right way

    [29:39 - 34:22] 3 Components of the Business That Should Work Together

    • Here’s what many entrepreneurs are doing wrong
    • The 3 components of a business that have to work harmoniously
    • Connect with Yoni. Links below

    [34:23 - 38:46] Closing Segment 

    • Know more about Yoni in the Fire Round!
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “We look at how to systemize the businesses based on people, process, and technology. Those three have to work harmoniously.” - Yoni Kozminski

    “...if you got a great job today and you’re thinking about firing the man, your worst possible outcome is that you have to go back and work for someone else...it’s not really that much of a risk.” - Yoni Kozminski


    Resources mentioned

    • Thrasio
    • MultiplyMii
    • SellersFunding
    • 8fig
    • Helium10
    • Yoni’s podcast: Successful Scales
    • Books
      • The 4-Hour Workweek
      • Who: The A Method of Hiring


    Email [email protected] to connect with Yoni or follow him on LinkedIn. Check out Escala to unravel the hidden potential of your business!


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Send us a voice message and let us know how we can help you fire the man! 


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    Email us --> [email protected]


    LEAVE US A REVIEW!

    Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call.  https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon

    Support the show

    41 min
  • How to Win on Walmart WFS with Expert and Princeton Grad Nehemiah Teferi

    Episode 95


    We have talked about Walmart in our previous episodes. That’s why we had invited guests who had firsthand experience doing business in Walmart to help us decide if it’s really best for our business to jump into this platform. Nehemiah Teferi is another Walmart expert who can give us not only insider tips but also a reputable outlook about Walmart. He will also talk about the Walmart Fulfillment Services (WFS), which allows ecommerce business owners to store inventory and ship their products through Walmart’s fulfillment centers.

    Listen to Nehemiah and learn how to win on Walmart WFS!

    [00:01 - 05:33] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Nehemiah Teferi
      • Why he pursued a career in the ecommerce industry
    • Nehemiah weighs in between dot-com and brick and mortar

    [05:34 - 16:04] Jumping to Walmart

    • The right time to extend from brick and mortar to dot-com
    • Things to consider when jumping to Walmart
    • Should you put your Amazon listing on Walmart?
      • Nehemiah shares his thoughts
    • Nehemiah gives his outlook about Walmart

    [16:05 - 27:00] The Power of Product Reviews

    • Why product reviews are important in an ecommerce business
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400
    • Do you need help in selling through Walmart?
      • Nehemiah talks about his agency’s services

    [27:01 - 32:05] What Sellers Need to Realize About Ecommerce

    • Nehemiah shares his experience with the Walmart Fulfillment Services
    • Is the “pro seller” feature of Walmart helpful?
    • Know more about Nehemiah in the Fire Round!

    [32:06 - 34:12] Closing Segment 

    • Connect with Nehemiah. Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “You have to do the research. You have to find product-market fit. Every business has to find product-market fit” - Nehemiah Teferi

    “E-Commerce is really a game of perseverance.” - Nehemiah Teferi


    Resources mentioned

    • eBay
    • Etsy
    • Walmart
    • Helium10
    • Book: How to win Friends & Influence People


    Email [email protected] to connect with Nehemiah or follow him on LinkedIn. Check out his Net & Company Consultants to learn more about their services.


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    35 min
  • The Art of Subtle Words That Sell with Author Paul Ross

    Episode 94


    Paul Ross is a master sales trainer, keynote speaker, and author of “Subtle Words That Sell.”  For 30 years, Paul's been speaking in front of tens of thousands of people, teaching them to use the power of language to persuade, sell, and even heal. Now he's trading in the stage for the USB mic to bring his message to the podcasting community! Paul has been featured on BBC, FOX, CBS, Huffington Post, and Rolling Stones.

    Listen to Paul and learn how to sell subtly with words!

    [00:01 - 04:22] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Paul Ross
    • How his inability to talk with women led him to sales

    [04:23 - 16:13] How to Sell Subtly With Words

    • Paul gives us a sneak peek of his book, “Subtle Words That Sell”
    • He breaks down the “Subconscious Sales Advantage”
    • The words to use at the start of a sales presentation
      • Don’t miss this quick learning session!
    • Common mistakes in copywriting according to Paul

    [16:14 - 28:02] Why You Should Learn Neuro-Linguistic Programming

    • How Paul realized that he needed to fire the man
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400
    • Paul gives us his take about Neuro-Linguistic Programming

    [28:03 - 33:37] Additional 30% Revenue In 90 Days

    • Here’s another interesting story from Paul you should not miss!
    • Paul’s tips to increase your revenue by at least 30% in 90 days
    • Know more about Paul in the Fire Round!

    [33:38 - 36:50] Closing Segment 

    • Connect with Paul. Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “You’re never selling your product or service. You’re always selling decisions and good feelings about those decisions.” - Paul Ross

    “Learn to get people’s attention immediately by writing a gripping headline.” - Paul Ross


    Resources mentioned

    • Paul’s book: Subtle Words That Sell
    • Books
      • Valis
      • The Age of Reason


    Email [email protected] to connect with Paul or follow him on LinkedIn. Check out his personal website to learn more about his work.


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    Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call.  https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon

    Support the show

    39 min
  • How a Broker Can Pay Dividends at Exit with Ben Leonard from Ecom Brokers

    Episode 93


    We have Ben Leonard for the second time in our podcast to tell us how brokers can pay dividends at exit. Best known as the founder of Beast Gear, Ben is the classic millennial entrepreneur who built a business on a laptop, in a cupboard, in his spare time. His difference from other entrepreneurs is that Ben grew an international 7-figure business and successfully exited after 3 years - the business holy grail. Now, Ben is doing it all over again and helping others to do the same with his ecommerce brokerage, Ecom Brokers.

    Listen to Ben and learn from an ecommerce superstar!

    [00:01 - 06:38] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Ben Leonard
    • Ben talks about the truth about branding

    [06:39 - 17:32] From Zero to a Million

    • Improve your brand with these tips from Ben!
      • How to build your customer avatar
    • A successful strategy that you can apply to your brand now
    • How to go from zero to a million
      • Here’s a complex answer that Ben simplifies
    • He would not have succeeded if he did not take this step
      • Ben shares this can’t-miss story

    [17:33 - 26:34] Outsourcing Your Business

    • Micro-decisions can bring massive benefits
    • Should you outsource from the get-go?
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400

    [26:35 - 41:29] Let’s Talk About Brokers

    • Here’s when you should sell your business
      • Ben shares his thoughts
    • How aggregators really work
    • What an ecommerce owner should look for in an aggregator
    • You should not miss these interesting insights from Ben about valuing your business

    [41:30 - 49:08] State of Ecommerce

    • Why put your business in front of a pool of buyers
    • Ben shares his thoughts on the current state of ecommerce
    • Know more about Ben in the Fire Round!

    [49:09 - 51:22] Closing Segment 

    • Connect with Ben. Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “People buy from people, not brands. Until you’re Nike or Tesla, nobody really cares about your brand. They care about solving your problem.” - Ben Leonard

    “The best way to differentiate yourself from the competition is just be authentic because no one else can be you.” - Ben Leonard


    Resources mentioned

    • Prosper Show
    • Thrasio
    • Perch
    • Book: Building a StoryBrand


    Email [email protected] to connect with Ben or follow him on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook. Check out his personal website and visit Ecom Brokers to learn more about his services.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    LEAVE US A REVIEW!

    Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call.  https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon

    Support the show

    54 min
  • How an FBA Aggregator Bought a 100M+ Business with Chris Bell, CEO of Perch

    Episode 92


    Chris Bell is Founder and Chief Executive Officer at Perch, a technology-enabled consumer products company that acquires and operates Amazon FBA businesses with winning products in their respective categories. Chris had designed and built the Wayfair Delivery Network, which has delivered over 3 million heavy bulky orders annually, before starting Perch. 

    At Bain & Company, Chris worked with Fortune 500 companies on growth strategy and leading private equity firms on M&A, working on over 40 transactions, representing $90B+ in value, including the largest tech merger in history. Prior to business school, Chris was a leading sales rep of office hardware and software and he started his career at GE Healthcare. Chris has a BS in Computer Engineering from Georgia Tech and an MBA from Carnegie Mellon.

    Listen to Chris and learn the secrets of an expert FBA aggregator!

    [00:01 - 05:40] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Chris Bell
    • Chris shares his thoughts why people buy from Amazon

    [05:41 - 14:31] Starting His Entrepreneurial Journey

    • Chris shares the humble beginnings of Perch
    • How he overcame his fears and start his entrepreneurial journey
    • He walks us through the process of quitting his job

    [14:32 - 25:03] Bringing Your Business To New Heights

    • Do you work hard at everything you do?
      • Here’s a piece of advice from Chris
    • If you want to sell your business, try Perch
      • Chris tells us why
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400
    • Chris shares their approach in buying businesses

    [25:04 - 37:49] Why Contact Perch Now

    • Sell your business to Perch with this one easy step!
    • When to contact brokers and when to call Perch directly
    • Chris talks about this acquisition and the lessons you can learn from it
    • Prepare for an exit with this great tip from Chris

    [37:50 - 42:01] Closing Segment 

    • Know more about Chris in the Fire Round!
    • Connect with Chris. Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “If you are a hard worker and you have some tenacity, take risks.” - Chris Bell

    “You gotta understand that the goal of whatever business you’re in is almost always to delight the customer.” - Chris Bell


    Resources mentioned

    • Amazon
    • Wayfair Delivery Network
    • Firing the Man episode 91: How to Scale from $0 to $80 million on Amazon with Adam Feinberg from Web Deals Direct
    • Adam Feinberg
    • Book: How to win Friends & Influence People


    Email [email protected] to connect with Chris or follow him on LinkedIn. Bring your business to new heights by getting in touch with Perch!


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Send us a voice message and let us know how we can help you fire the man! 


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    Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call.  https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon

    Support the show

    44 min
  • How to Scale from $0 to $80 million on Amazon with Adam Feinberg from Web Deals Direct

    Episode 91


    Adam Feinberg is the Chief Executive Officer of Web Deals Direct LLC (WDD), an Amazon FBA business that is home to more than 30 brands. Adam recently sold his business to Perch, a technology-driven commerce company that acquires and operates top Amazon third-party and other D2C brands at scale, resulting in an impressive nine-figure earn-out. 

    Listen to Adam and scale from $0 to $80 million too!  

    [00:01 - 05:03] Opening Segment

    • Let’s get to know Adam Feinberg
    • Adam talks about his path to being an Amazon FBA Seller

    [05:04 - 12:25] Willingness to Take Risks and Chances

    • Adam wanted to be an entrepreneur but he was petrified then
      • What changed his mind?
    • Here’s Adam’s piece of advice for his younger self
    • A key to success that Kevin had adopted from his SEO experience 

    [12:26 - 22:42] How to Scale Quickly

    • From 0$ to $80 million in 6 years
      • How Adam pulled it off
    • The power of niching down and choosing your market
    • Adam talks about the most import lessons he learned from his business

    [22:43 - 34:57] Selling Your Business

    • Should you have a software team for your ecommerce business?
      • Adam weighs in
    • Adam shares some interesting insights about selling your business
    • Want some Amazon refunds? Check out Getida
      • Promo code: FTM400
    • Why hire people who are more experienced than you 

    [34:58 - 45:28] Your “Why” in Being an Entrepreneur

    • What Adam liked about their arrangement with Perch
    • Here’s what you can learn from successful entrepreneurs according to Adam
    • Listen to Adam’s next steps for his new business ventures

    [45:29 - 54:20] Closing Segment 

    • Know more about Adam in the Fire Round!
    • Connect with Adam. Links below
    • Final words

     

    Tweetable Quotes:

    “If you wanna be an entrepreneur, you have to keep your expenses reasonable and you have to be willing to take risks and if you don’t take risks and take chances, you’re just not gonna succeed.” - Adam Feinberg

    “If you wanna be in charge of your own destiny, you really have to earn a business.” - Adam Feinberg


    Resources mentioned

    • AMZ Alert
    • Thrasio
    • Prosper Show
    • Perch
    • James Patterson books
    • Alex Cross books


    Email [email protected] or [email protected] to connect with Adam or follow him on LinkedIn. Check out Web Deals Direct to work with an Amazon FBA business that always innovates their product, looks for opportunities to expand, and satisfies their customers!


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Support the show

    56 min

About Firing The Man

From the publisher's feed

THANK YOU TO OUR 25,000+ LISTENERS! We are so thankful to be one of the TOP E-Commerce Podcasts delivering high-quality authentic content to you! Serial Entrepreneur’s David Schomer and Ken Wilson…