Host Phil Gervasi talks with Chris Grundemann, cofounder of the Network Automation Forum and AutoCon, about why network automation still isn’t fully adopted after more than a decade of hype. They dig into the real blockers behind the tech: skills gaps, engineer identity and culture, organizational structure, and the broader “sociotechnical” system around NetOps. Chris also shares how the AutoCon community has evolved over five events, the growing role of observability and AI in automation, and what’s next for NAF and AutoCon in Europe.