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What if quitting your first addiction doesn’t free you—but quitting your last escape does? We sit down with Al, a dual-addict in long-term recovery  to trace the surprising path from drugs to gambling to genuine peace. His story reveals a pattern many of us know too well: remove one behavior and the restlessness finds a new outlet. The fog finally lifts when you stop negotiating with the next rush and start building a life you don’t want to lose.

We dig into the practical tools that make that shift real. Al shares why Step Three became his pivot from control to trust, and how “living the steps” beats treating them like a checklist. We talk anger as a message rather than a flaw, how emotional literacy outperforms willpower, and why you can’t outthink pain but you can outgrow it. For those navigating dual recovery, Al explains the power of multiple fellowships—how GA and NA each deliver language and community that the other can’t. The result is a broader toolkit, clearer mirrors, and more honest accountability.

This conversation also celebrates the rewards that keep recovery sticky. Al swapped betting slips for scuba in the Galapagos, night dives that feel like meditation, and the quiet thrill of antiquing and launching an auction company. We explore natural dopamine through purpose, connection, and adventure, alongside the simple math that keeps him steady: consequences outweigh any fleeting high. If you’re seeking a path from white-knuckling to a life that feels wide open, this story offers both hope and a roadmap.

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