Fraudish

Six-Year Anniversary Episode: Behavioral Science, Status Quo Bias, and How Culture Fuels (or Prevents) Fraud

Kelly marks the six-year anniversary of Great Women in Fraud/Fraudish with guest Melina Palmer, host of The Brainy Business podcast and an applied behavioral economics instructor who co-created Texas A&M’s certificate program. 

In a speed round, Palmer names Bernie Madoff (and possibly Ponzi) as interesting fraud interviews and discusses how “who steals more” depends on whether you mean dollars or frequency. They connect behavioral science to fraud through communication, AI’s mixed value in drafting and research, and problems with low-quality AI content and “pitch slapping” on LinkedIn. Palmer explains bike shedding (productive procrastination) and shares examples of status quo bias and change failure, including Tropicana’s 2009 packaging redesign leading to a 20% sales drop and $50M loss, plus New Coke and current Coca-Cola labeling issues. They discuss tribalism, social proof, whistleblowing, expense-report loopholes, per diems, calibration, inequity aversion (capuchin monkeys rejecting cucumbers when others get grapes), and how tone at the top and perceived unfairness can drive employee rationalization and fraud; Palmer recommends Eric Ries’ Incorruptible.

Connect with Melina: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melinapalmer/

https://thebrainybusiness.com/

https://thebrainybusiness.com/learn-with-us/

Fairness study with monkeys!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg 

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Incorruptible/Eric-Ries/9798893311860

00:00 Anniversary Kickoff

01:06 Speed Round Fraudsters

03:21 Behavioral Science Background

05:28 Teaching And Podcasting

06:23 Speaking Under Pressure

09:32 AI Hype And Reality

14:35 Bike Shedding Explained

17:20 Status Quo Bias Brands

22:37 Tribalism And Expense Loopholes

28:42 Fairness And Inequity Aversion

32:34 Books For Fraudish Fans

34:59 Culture Trust And Tone

Kelly interviews Georgia attorney Jon David Huffman about fraud cases and victim experience. Huffman says embezzlement in positions of trust is more often committed by women in his experience, discusses the difficulty of finding good lawyers, and notes investigators could be stronger referral sources though rules limit referral fees. 

Jon explains his career path was influenced by a mentor and a decade-long family dispute rooted in a fraudulent M&A deal, leading him to a practice where he found about 80% of cases involve fraud. He describes using Georgia’s private warrant process when police decline clear-cut fraud, contrasts rural vs. metro prosecution challenges, and shares trial moments where cross-examination exposes cons. He’s writing “The Real Cost of Fraud” to counter victim self-blame, recounts being conned twice, and recommends resources like American Greed and fraud-related books.

Connect with Jon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jondavidhuffman/

00:25 Fraudster Dinner Picks

01:26 Who Embezzles More

02:44 Origin Story of Fraud Lawyer

04:52 Bad Lawyers and Referrals

07:10 Private Warrants When Cops Won’t

10:11 Selling Fraud Cases to Prosecutors

12:41 Victim Emotions and Grief

15:33 Why Trials Are Thrilling

18:08 Why Fraud Cases Don’t Settle

21:23 Brazenness and Range Rovers

24:55 Writing The Real Cost of Fraud

26:52 Books and Red Flags

30:00 Even Lawyers Get Conned

31:31 Law Firm Embezzlement Story

33:54 Fraud Docs and Reading List

36:34 Final Advice and Wrap Up

From Hedge Fund Fraud to Redemption: Sean's Story at ACFE Global

In this Fraudish episode, the host interviews Sean, a former hedge fund manager who spoke at the 37th annual ACFE Global conference closing. Sean describes growing up in a working-class Denver home, dropping out of college, becoming a stockbroker, and launching a short-term trading hedge fund at 32. After early success, a losing month threatened his identity, leading him to conceal losses, escalate deception, and contemplate suicide when the SEC investigated; he instead cooperated, accepted responsibility, and later served 13.75 years of a 40-year state-prison sentence, plus six months in a halfway house, earning time off through good behavior and an associate’s degree. He shares prison lessons on judgment, authenticity, and trust, then reintegration through completing a bachelor’s degree and speaking, including a podcast that led ACFE’s John Gill to invite him to speak. The conversation also touches on fraudster dinner choices (Nixon), gender and theft, recommended books and podcasts, leadership lessons from prison softball, and a humorous aside about Mercedes vs. Range Rovers.

00:40 Dinner With a Fraudster

01:54 Who Steals More

03:42 From Denver to Hedge Fund

05:29 First Loss and Cover Up

07:01 SEC Call and Ledge

08:12 Cooperating and Identity

09:47 Family Ego and Balance

13:58 Prison Reality Check

18:44 Trust Among Manipulators

20:31 Time Served and Halfway House

23:28 Speaking Path to ACFE

25:30 Mercedes Not Range Rover

27:09 Podcast Influences

28:32 Money Talk and Private Jets

29:50 Finance Shows That Miss

33:25 Wall Street Roots and Validation

35:08 Writing the Redemption Book

37:48 Integrity Culture Reading List

39:35 Did Employees Know

41:08 How Investors Trusted Him

45:18 Next 15 Years and Leadership

Connect with Sean:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanmueller5280/

https://proactiveethics.com/

Psychology of Belief with Neal aka Fraud Guy

Kellly interviews fraud attorney Neal, head of Global Fraud Investigations and Asset Recovery at the  law firm Rimón, about his 30+ year career representing receivers, trustees, banks, insurers, investors, and victims of large-scale Ponzi and other financial crimes. 

In a wide-ranging discussion, Neal says men commit more fraud, explains why “clean” bankruptcy files are uncommon, and shares examples of debtors hiding assets (including collector cars and offshore trusts) and how trustees lack resources to pursue fraud. 

He talks about his first major fraud work enforcing a $1.5M State Farm judgment and describes fraudster psychology as consistent with antisocial personality traits and narcissistic tendencies, arguing fraud is often about power, not money. They also discuss ethics risks for “fraud warriors,” victim belief and sunk cost, synthetic identity fraud growth, and lawyers going bad.

Connect with Neal: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/fraudattorney/

Do you know what Rimon means? 

00:46 Ponzi Dinner Pick

01:45 Who Steals More

03:26 Inside Rimón Firm

06:42 Bankruptcy Fraud Tales

12:32 Trustee Life Reality

15:26 First Fraud Case

17:58 Fraud Warrior Ethics

20:17 Theranos and Dirty Tactics

23:17 Power Lawyers and Lies

24:51 Fraudster Psychology Profile

27:31 Power Over Money

28:59 Madoff And Affinity Fraud

29:57 Fraud Warrior Temptations

31:12 Accountability Versus Justice

33:00 Why Smart Victims Fall

35:54 Fraud Getting Worse

38:25 Belief Beats Rationality

40:28 Pop Culture Gets Fraud Wrong

43:30 Lawyers Going Bad

46:35 System Fails Self Policing

Hardcore Con, the Shoebox Scam, and How Fear Fuels Fraud with Johnathan Walton

Kelly interviews returning guest Johnathan Walton about cons, victims, and his podcast Hardcore Con. They discuss how anyone can be scammed, especially those who believe it can’t happen to them, and how multiple “red flags” compound; Kelly also describes adopting a family “code word” to thwart scams.

 Walton breaks down the “shoebox” case in which a financial journalist was manipulated by spoofed calls and fake FTC/CIA agents into withdrawing $50,000 and handing it to a stranger, explaining how scammers use fear, emotion, and sunk cost fallacy. They touch on jury-duty and tech-support scams, Walton’s efforts to help victims build compelling cases for police, and his series Cocaine Air. Walton previews Hardcore Con episodes on Brittany Murphy, arguing a con artist husband isolated her and withheld medical care, and teases an upcoming episode about an Amazon-related blackmail scheme.

Previous link to Johnathan's first appearance: 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2pOZAQ9W8rRfURhyfQVJd8

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1261361/episodes/17653295-even-fraud-has-a-silver-lining-with-johnathan-walton

01:37 No Victim Shaming

04:03 Safe Word 

05:04 Hardcore Con Tease

05:46 Red Flags Checklist

06:44 Shoebox Scam Breakdown

08:24 Fear And Sunk Cost

12:55 Jury Duty Scam

15:42 Helping Victims Report

16:52 Cocaine Air Update

23:59 Beak Wetting Explained

25:07 Gender And Motives

27:59 Power Over Money

28:19 Breadcrumb Setup Trap

30:30 Fraud Crumbs Tactics

32:00 Desperation And TJ

32:48 Honeypots And Raids

34:18 What To Watch Now

35:41 Sharper And Silent Scams

37:25 Corporate Gossip And Frank

40:34 Hardcore Con Brittany Murphy

44:13 Legal Fraud And Nonprofits

47:08 Amazon Blackmail Episode

49:06 Handyman Escort Underworld

51:45 Books That Stop Cons

53:13 Final Thanks And Wrap

Fraudish welcomes guest Kathy Chambers, connected through LinkedIn, to discuss storytelling as a driver of change and effective marketing in cyber and fraud. Kathy shares her path from radio/TV degrees and 10+ years as a TV news producer to University of Florida media director, then pivoting during COVID to ITProTV, where she hosted 250+ audit episodes and later the Certified Ethical Hacker series, falling in love with cybersecurity’s “drama” and later its protective mission. She describes producing a cybersecurity show, quickly booking major industry names, and networking through conferences like Wireless Hacking Fest. They discuss how stories—not statistics—stick in presentations, fraud, and cyber marketing, criticizing generic “AI-powered” messaging and advocating people-centered narratives, even via scenarios when privacy blocks details. Kathy explains building client trust, her focus on helping small-to-medium businesses. Shout out to  her podcast Authentically Cyber.

Connect with Kathy: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathychambersmedia/

https://kathychambersmedia.com/

Authentically Cyber Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyVUHRwg9INfOUJVlYLpm-zzKvtcD9NP7

Show times!

00:00 Meet Kathy Chambers

00:53 Fraudster Dinner Question

02:01 From News to Cyber

05:32 Hosting Ethical Hacker

07:12 Launching Cyber Show

09:28 Networking at Conferences

11:03 AI Deepfake Fears

13:45 Why Audit Matters

16:01 Storytelling Beats Stats

17:39 Cyber Marketing Stories

19:26 Remembering Tom Cronkite

20:37 Why Stories Stick

21:15 Rebranding a New Business

22:30 Pink Collar Crime Series Idea

24:08 Making Victims Relatable

26:13 Getting Companies to Share

30:25 Tractors Not Ferraris

32:12 Leaders as the Story

35:12 Marketing Cuts Pet Peeve

36:32 Ideal Client Avatar

39:44 TikTok and LinkedIn Magic

40:28 Closing Thanks and Mattering

Serena Morones on Forensic Accounting, Mentoring, and Using AI to Find Fraud Faster

Podcast host Kelly interviews Serena Morones of Morones Analytics about fraud, forensic accounting, and her career path. In a speed round, Morones says she’d most like to have a meal with Robert Jesenick, the CEO behind Oregon’s largest Ponzi scheme (Aequitas), to understand how rationalization and the “slippery slope” begin. 

They discuss gender patterns in fraud: women more often in classic embezzlement/bookkeeper cases, men more often in complex multi-entity schemes and investment fraud with larger dollar amounts. Morones recounts shifting from plans for law school to forensic accounting after seeing litigation-support work at Pricewaterhouse, emphasizing creativity, communication, and courage. She describes monthly group mentoring sessions and her focus on credibility and truth-telling among expert witnesses. Morones also shares her sports photography hobby and explains how AI is improving investigations by speeding document analysis and visualization, with a staff member dedicated to tool development. She notes she most enjoys investment fraud cases, recommends “Mr. Bates vs the Post Office” and “The Big Short,” and encourages young professionals to pursue the field for justice while staying committed to truth in court.

00:00 Welcome Serena Morones

00:45 Meal With a Fraudster

04:14 Men vs Women Theft

08:29 Building Morones Analytics

13:24 Creativity in Forensics

17:33 Mentoring the Next Gen

20:59 Sports Photography Outlet

22:39 AI in Forensic Accounting

32:47 Favorite Case Types

34:54 Fraud in Pop Culture

38:07 Gerry Spence Truth Lesson

40:13 Career Advice and Wrap

Connect with Serena:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/serenamorones/

https://moronesanalytics.com/team/serena-morones/

Returning guest Marguerite Lorenz is here to talk about all things trust and estate related. She has a new book, Luck or Control, The Life-Improving Power of Estate Planning,” reflecting on how a rushed, outdated will during the host’s husband’s terminal cancer diagnosis made planning urgent and life-easing. 

Lorenz argues estate planning is not about wealth or only death, but about documenting preferences for incapacity, healthcare, and distribution to avoid confusion, family conflict, fraud risks, and costly probate (noting a $46,000 minimum in California for a $1 million estate). They discuss choosing qualified estate-planning attorneys, updating plans, naming multiple healthcare agents, tracking fiduciary actions, avoiding “early inheritance” ambiguity, and real cases involving elder financial abuse, safe deposit boxes, life estates, pet trusts, no-contest clauses, and special needs/public benefits concerns, directing listeners to planforthis.com for a free toolkit.and you need to go and get it!  

https://planforthis.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/californiatrustee/

Previous episode with Marguerite: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-21-marguerite-c-lorenz-ctfa-clpf-master-trustee/id1530413097?i=1000510372491

0:58 Why Estate Plans Matter

03:14 Cost Versus Probate

06:17 Free Toolkit And Hiring Help

07:28 Fiduciary Duty Explained

08:37 Family Caregiving Gray Areas

12:43 Document Everything As Trustee

15:31 The Black Box Problem

17:52 Choose Your Three People

20:35 Agency And End Of Life Choices

24:42 Mabel Casino Cautionary Tale

27:23 Preventing Inheritance Fights

29:46 No Contest Clauses And Spite

32:17 Leaving Love Not Destruction

33:26 Fairness Between Children

34:02 Fairness Can Flip

34:37 Needs Based Trusts

35:39 Love Not Punishment

37:46 Planning for Incapacity

41:04 Life Estates and Marriage Myths

43:51 Pet Trust Pitfalls

46:53 Sign the Documents

48:44 Wills and POA Basics

50:28 Stop Clever Workarounds

52:05 Safe Deposit Box Chaos

55:35 Special Needs and Flexibility

01:00:34 Fund the Trust and Wrap Up

Corporate Gossip’s Becca Platsky on CEO Myths, Enron Obsessions, and Why Humility Is Fraud Protection

Kelly Paxton hosts Becca Platsky of the Corporate Gossip Podcast (a CPA-run “business podcast for Bravo lovers”) to discuss how the show deep-dives one company per week with heavy research, financial analysis, and human-interest gossip, including episodes on Enron and the Forbes 30 Under 30 pipeline of fraudsters. They argue CEOs are often made “dumber” by constant validation and isolation, and that executive assistants may best understand what happens behind the scenes. The conversation covers wealth bias in the justice system, support letters for white-collar defendants, and the Charlie Javice/JPMorgan case as an avoidable due-diligence failure tied to elite blind spots. Platsky emphasizes community as a source of optimism, names favorite media/podcasts, and stresses that humility—recognizing anyone can commit or fall for fraud under pressure and opportunity—is key protection.

01:52 What Corporate Gossip Is

04:11 Why CEOs Get Dumber

06:41 Executive Assistants Know

09:13 Billionaire Pedestals

10:36 Scott Galloway Debate

12:18 Favorite Business Voices

13:35 Optimism Versus Skepticism

17:00 New York And Thrillerfest

19:51 Dream Fraudster Interviews

22:00 Who Steals More

23:50 Madoff Staff And Disney

24:25 Letters To The Judge

27:08 Charlie Javice Case

29:43 FAFSA Fraud Blindspots

32:18 Range Rover Red Flags

33:17 Forbes Lists and Grifts

34:59 WeWork Key Man Risk

36:58 Podcast Inspirations

38:45 Stanford Power Plays

40:49 Scammer Red Flags Books

42:41 Humility Against Fraud

45:54 Everyone Has a Price

48:04 Women in Fraud History

Resources Mentioned

• Nobody's Fool
• Corporate Gossip podcast
• Patreon community for Corporate Gossip

Connect with Becca

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccaplatsky/

https://www.corporategossippod.com/

This week on Fraudish, Kelly speaks with Mark Nigrini to discuss AI’s use in fraud examination. 

Do you think Sam Bankman-Fried’s Anthropic investment to AI’s growing relevance? We discuss. 

Nigrini shares AI applications like detecting inconsistent invoices (think Rita Crundwell), finding fraud “fingerprints” in dollar amounts, analyzing contradictions in hearings, and raising ethical concerns.

Connect with Mark: linkedin.com/in/mark-nigrini-7409918

Get his book, Forensic Analytics: https://nigrini.com/