Alisa Berger was the founding principal at both the NYC iSchool, a New York City public high school, and the Mott Hall II school, a NYC public middle school. She currently teaches at the Harvard Graduate School of Education in the Professional Education Program, and is Co-Director of The Deeper Learning Dozen. In this unique format, Alisa, Rod and Jal will build a roster of "bad educational innovations," and then both defend their choices and challenge each others. Some of the selections include: high stakes testing and assessment, computers in the classroom, mastery-based learning, recess, start time and scheduling, and even school itself. But don't worry, it isn't all negative. Everyone will share a positive innovation to close out the episode along with a plug to join Rod, Jal and Alisa at this summer's Deeper Learning Ed Camp.

Learn more about Ed Camp

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Diana Hess has been dean of University of Wisconsin–Madison’s School of Education since Aug. 1, 2015. She is only the ninth dean of the School of Education since its founding in 1930. Since 1997, Hess has been researching how teachers engage their students in discussions of highly controversial political and constitutional issues, and what impact this approach to civic education has on what young people learn. Her most recent book, “The Political Classroom: Evidence and Ethics in Democratic Education,” co-authored with Paula McAvoy, won the American Educational Research Association’s Outstanding Book Award in 2016 and the prestigious Grawemeyer Award in 2017. 

Highlights from her interview include: an amazing opening biography challenge; how student and teacher preparation is key to meaningful conversations in the classroom; the difference between a discussion and a debate - removing the element of a winner and a loser; why we need to teach "inauthentic" political discourse that goes against what we often see portrayed in the media; how to manage conversations when you don't know how they may affect students personally; the evolution of issues being "settled"; the importance of learning from history; and a powerful example of real-time discussion related to the September 11th tragedy. 

Check out Diana's Book: The Political Classroom

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219

Jo Chrona is an education consultant, speaker, and author, supporting professional learning opportunities in the areas of Indigenous education and anti-racism. She has more than 25 years teaching in both K-12 (secondary) and post-secondary education, and played a vital role in developing First Peoples Principles of Learning in British Columbia. This powerful conversation covers several topics including: the story behind Wayi Wah! as a book title and how to properly say it; a thoughtful look at the journey of incorporating Indigenous knowledge into the education system; several anecdotes that illustrate the tension of the process and the resistance that continues to exist; the importance of balancing anger with a willingness to invite those that resist into the conversation; a new twist on the "I used to think, and now I think" exercise; why educators should never stop learning but occasionally may have to unlearn things as well; and one of the most efficient lightning rounds to date! 

Check out Jo's Book: Wayi Wah! Indigenous Pedagogies: An Act for Reconciliation and Anti-Racist Education

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

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Cresta Mcintosh is the Associate Superintendent for the Monterey Public Schools in California, and Jocelyn Fletcher Schuech  is the Associate Director of Teaching and Learning in Burlington Vermont. Alisa Burger currently teaches at the Harvard Graduate School of Education in the Professional Education Program, and is Co-Director of The Deeper Learning Dozen. This marks her third appearance on the podcast! The conversation features a very open and honest discussion on what it takes to lead systems change, and highlights include: the power of shadowing students and seeing the education experience through their eyes; a deep dive into Margaret Wheatley's idea of "hero to host;" the challenges of moving form co-construction to sustained action and change; how it is not only important to get the right people to the table, but to then make sure those voices are heard - the idea of excavating voices in different spaces; a moving commentary on what its like to be a female change agent in education, especially when leadership positions are still male-dominated; and a touching close that features each person's favorite end of school year tradition. 

Read more about "Hero to Host"

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

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James Thompson is the designer behind Black Badger, a creative design agency that specializes in using advanced materials in new and exciting ways. He's previously done special edition pieces with luxury watch brands De Bethune and MB&F. He’s mucked about with everything from McLaren supercars to next-generation submarine design. Born in Vancouver, Canada, James relocated to Gothenburg, Sweden in 2002 and is now co-owner of the Copenhagen-based watch brand Arcanaut. This lively conversation features: an opening reflection on new legislation disrupting Florida's school systems; a look at the creative process using a Beatles analogy, Pixar examples, and several sports references; a raw and honest reflection on James' approach to creativity, along with the successes and failures of his journey; how collaboration fits with creativity; where creativity fits within the school system; and a lightning round that questions whether James is the most exciting toy in his home!

Check out James' Site: Black Badger

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219

Chris Kennedy is the Superintendent of Schools/CEO with the West Vancouver School District (West Vancouver, British Columbia). He has taught secondary English and Social Studies, and been both an elementary and secondary school principal.  In addition, he runs a blog entitled "The Culture of Yes" where you can find several articles on the most pressing and timely issues in education. Highlights from his conversation with Rod and Jal include: the origin of the "Culture of Yes" mentality; how Chris became known as an "elder statesmen" in the BC school system and what makes him a truly free range human; the importance of saying yes to new ideas and then allowing those innovations to grow and scale; how student leadership is more than just representation, it's about hearing as many voices as possible, especially those marginalized by past and current systems; an insightful conversation about the emergence of AI technology, specifically ChatGPT, and what it means for the future of education; what COVID taught us about the allocation of time in schools; a look at gender in sports, especially during the earliest years of playing; everyone answering the question about how their teaching and coaching has changed over time; and a lightning round featuring impromptu sound effects! 

Check out Chris' blog: The Culture of Yes

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219

Shawn Ginwright is a leading innovator and scholar of African American youth, youth activism, and youth development. He currently holds the title of Professor of Education in the Africana Studies Department at San Francisco State University, and starting this fall, will join Jal as a Professor of Practice at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. Highlights from their conversation include: a little back story about the origin of the book that involves wine and a black table; the importance of looking inward and dealing with inner turmoil in order to work successfully on social problems; the value of balance and clarity and how Rod, Jal, and Shawn all found their own versions of it; why a lack of true equilibrium among activists can lead to strained relationships, burn out, and failure; why empathy and healing need to be core to any transformational movement; a powerful reaction to yet another wave of school shootings in the U.S.; and a lightning round that puts the quality of east coast Mexican food to the test! 

Check out Shawn's book: The Four Pivots: Reimagining Justice, Reimagining Ourselves

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

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This powerful conversation features four guests  from the Nisga’a Nation and the Nisga’a School District: Sayt Gibuu (Lydia Stephens) - Nisga’a Lisims Language and Culture Program Manager, Luu-MisMaakskw (Esther Adams) - Nisga’a Lisims Director of Language and Culture, Galksi-De'entkw (Peter McKay) - District Principal Indigenous Education, and Jill Jensen - Superintendent. Highlights from the episode include: an opening from Peter; examining the importance of the land and how it is incorporated into the student experience; how language and culture can become focal points of the education system; the delicate balance of indigenous education and ministry requirements; what other systems and districts can learn from Nisga'a; and a lightning round heavily focused on nature. 

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Doannie Tran was a middle and high school teacher, and was assistant superintendent for academics and professional learning for Boston Public Schools, and currently is a partner at the Center for Innovation in Education. Landon Mascareñez describes himself as educator, writer, and democracy builder. He works at the Colorado Education Initiative (CEI) and is the vice chair of the Colorado State Board for Community Colleges and Occupational Education. Doannie and Landon have been close since their time together at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and have since co-founded the Open System Institute. Their conversation with Rod and Jal includes: a deep discussion on the attractiveness of closed systems; why open systems would be better, but are a challenge to implement - classic fear of change; what unlearning was needed in order to fully embrace the concept of open systems; the importance of having all of the stakeholders, including skeptics and political actors, in the room in order to build trust in a community; sound advice on how to move from the theory of an open system to concrete action; and a lightning round that assesses the change tolerance of our guests and hosts! 

Pre-Order Doannie and Landon's book: The Open System: Redesigning Education and Reigniting Democracy

Learn more about the Open System Institute

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219

Dr. Pam Moran is a recently retired superintendent of thirteen years and has also worked as a teacher, staff developer, elementary principal, and assistant superintendent. She was the 2010 president of the Virginia Association of School Superintendents and the 2016 Virginia Superintendent of the Year, one of four finalists for the national superintendent of the year. Ira Socol is a Principal of Socol/Moran Partners and serves as Senior Provocateur, while leading work in the transformation of spaces, technologies, and library services. Highlights from their conversation include: opening mini-biographies based on a podcast homework assignment; an incredible story about Pam's first day as a teacher;  how being a police officer changed the way Ira viewed classroom observation; the importance of giving everyone in the school system room to make mistakes; a look at why we need transformational change, and then examining the what and how of actually making it work; amazing examples of what transformation looks like for students, teachers and administrators; why the definition of engagement is different for every student; and a vast list of book recommendations during the lightning round. 

Check out Ira and Pam's book: Timeless Learning: How Imagination, Observation, and Zero-Based Thinking Change Schools

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219