In this podcast Manuel Pais, InfoQ Lead Editor for DevOps, talks to Gene Kim, co-author of the "DevOps Handbook" and "The Phoenix Project" books, on how to scale DevOps in large organizations ("horses") and the need for continuous learning and adaptation.

Why listen to this podcast:

- DevOps Enterprise Summit focuses on continuously learning from leaders elevating technical practices and cultural norms at large, complex organizations.

- Remaining challenges in large organizations include largely outsourced IT workforces, rigid change management processes, and powerful regulatory offices.

- Effective DevOps transformations require a certain political savvyness to protect teams and prevent initiatives getting killed too early.

- It's not the org chart that dictates outcomes, it's how people act and react. Reorganization is far less important than setting cultural norms and expectations.

- Metrics that matter in high performing organizations are code deployment lead time, deployment frequency, change success rate, or mean time to repair.

More on this: Quick scan our curated show notes on InfoQ http://bit.ly/2q9VRKQ

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