Americans were already losing touch with basic decency before Trump came along—and he exploited that indecency, distrust, and division to win power. In his new novel, George Packer spins a story of an imaginary country that just collapses, and how ordinary people have to learn to live together again. Fiction has a way of making the real world more clear. Plus, Charlie Kirk’s influence on our political climate before his death, JD’s phoniness and lust for power, Trump may be flailing but he’s still amassed immense power, and how AI moving us away from the written word threatens our democracy.

The Atlantic’s George Packer joins Tim Miller for the holiday weekend pod.

George’s new book, “The Emergency: A Novel”

Tim's playlist

George’s piece on Arizona and Charlie Kirk from last year

“The Talented Mr. Vance” piece by George

“The Assassins’ Gate”

“The Unwinding: An Inner History of the New America”

“Last Best Hope: America in Crisis and Renewal”