Grief and joy are not opposites. This is the start of our holistic, ten-part series on grief, and we'll make the case for why that belongs in a joy-focused, positive psychology podcast: because you cannot have one without the other, and because right now, as a community, we are carrying more collective grief than most of us know how to hold.

Henry and Aimee frame the series around Francis Weller's "Gates of Grief" model. It's a more flexible, honest alternative to the five stages of grief. Grief doesn't arrive in stages. It enters through doorways, whether we invite it or not. And it travels with joy. The gates they'll explore over the series include everything we love we will lose, the places that have not known love, the sorrows of the world, what we expected but didn't receive, ancestral grief, grief for harm done, trauma, anticipatory grief, and other — a catchall that acknowledges grief is too vast and too personal to fully categorize.

But first, the marinating metaphor: Henry says this season of grief has "tenderized" him, softened him, maybe even made him more interesting. And Aimee introduces the key insight that will shape the whole series — a curvilinear relationship between grief and growth. Too little grief work leaves things stuck. Too much marinating breaks you down. The sweet spot is in the middle: let it in, let it do its work, then come up for air.

p.s. Find your Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog.

About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek.

The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program.

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Key moments:

[00:00:00] Introduction

• Why a joy podcast is tackling grief
• The relationship between savoring and grief work

[00:03:00] Telling the Truth

• Henry's reflection on Buddhist teaching: "First you have to tell the truth"
• Personal experiences with grief that led to this series
• The marinating metaphor: how grief tenderizes and enriches us

[00:05:00] Four Reasons for This Series

1. We're living through collective grief right now
2. The US doesn't do grief well—we treat it like an inconvenience
3. Grief has become too individualized (we need connection to process it)
4. Grief doesn't follow neat stages—it's complex and unique

[00:08:00] Francis Weller's Gates of Grief

• The "gates" framework
• How grief enters through gates (with or without invitation)
• Why locking out grief also locks out joy and love

[00:10:00] Opening vs. Closing Down

• When it's okay to pause grief work
• The importance of not over-marinating
• The curvilinear relationship: sweet spot between too little and too much grief processing

[00:14:00] Series Overview Preview of the nine gates we'll explore:

1. Everything we love, we will lose
2. The places that have not known love
3. The sorrows of the world (collective grief)
4. What we expected but didn't receive
5. Ancestral grief
6. Grief for harm done
7. Trauma
8. Anticipatory grief
9. Other

[00:21:00] The Dragon Metaphor

• How to train your grief dragons
• Transforming fear and grief into connection and expansion

Sources and Notes for this full grief series:

• Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life.
• Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller
• Skye Cielita Flor & Miraz Indira, The Joyful Lament: On Pain for the World. 2023 Access here
• Learn more about Joanna Macy's work from the Commons Library.
• Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here

• Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here

• Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here.
• Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here
• Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here
• Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chiabu.2024.107125
• Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here
• Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here
• Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here.
• Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here

More Grief & Savoring Episodes:

- Ep. 252: Fourth Gate: What We Expected But Did Not Receive

- Ep. 251: Third Gate: The Sorrows of the World

- Ep. 250: Second Gate: The Places That Have Not Known Love

- Ep. 249: First Gate: Everything We Love, We Will Lose

- Ep. 232: Facing Pain and Finding Freedom

- Ep. 15: How Can We Respond to Tragic Loss?

Questions this episode was made for:

Q: Why is Joy Lab doing a series on grief? I came here for joy, not sadness.

A: Because grief and joy are woven together — you can't close the gate to one without closing the gate to the other; this episode makes the case for why facing grief is one of the most direct paths to a fuller, more joyful life.

Q: What's wrong with the five stages of grief model?

A: Nothing, exactly — but the stages imply an ordered process that grief rarely follows; Francis Weller's gates model is more flexible, holistic, and honest about grief's complexity, and this episode explains why Joy Lab is using it.

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