Michael Kelly from University of South Florida joined Higher Ed Athletics. The conversation begins with a question about whether giving levels and brand power at younger FBS institutions will ever catch up with the older institutions. Kelly shares the advantage that younger institutions like USF have right now in trying to be creative with decision-making. Kelly hosts the Bull Speed Ahead podcast and explains the reason behind the communication strategy for his fans. Particularly interesting since this show was created from being in a higher education doctorate program, Travis asks why it's been so important for Michael to teach and guest lecture at several institutions throughout his career. The conversation turns to how athletic leaders can leverage the brainpower on college campus ecosystems to help solve challenges in college athletics. Kelly shares how to decide whether advice is good or not in a decision-making process. Before closing with each sharing book recommendations, Travis asks Kelly to share a failure or challenge he has faced in his career: Ships in Jacksonville for the Super Bowl (Don't miss this story).

Recorded in October 2021, this is the first President & AD combination episode of the Higher Ed Athletics podcast. Joined by Grambling State University's President Rick Gallot Jr and Vice President Dr. Trayvean Scott, we had a wide-ranging conversation. President Gallot explains why he chose Dr. Scott to serve as not just the Athletic Director, but also becoming the first VP of Intercollegiate Athletics. Dr. Scott explains why he decided to pursue a PhD and what it was like moving from a Deputy role at Southern to the VP position at Grambling. Before becoming a university president, Gallot was a state representative and state senator and he shares how those relationships help the institution. To nerd out with me on APR, I ask Dr. Scott his thinking on what should happen with APR and he shares his philosophy and concerns on APR as it relates to NIL and transfer portal potentially negatively impacting top college athletes at HBCUs. The conversation turns to a good discussion on the unique relationships a university system can provide, especially when those system institutions are in different athletic conferences. President Gallot, when asked about how difficult it is to make decisions on college athletics with so much uncertainty, closes the conversation by explaining why it is in Grambling's historical nature to operate in challenging situations and makes the case as to why the more resourced institutions in the NCAA will be the ones at the disadvantage.

0:30 Institutional & Athletic Department Profiles

6:30 What President Gallot Saw in Hiring Dr. Scott as VP/AD

14:10 Why Dr. Scott Pursued the PhD to Complement AD Role

19:00 Going from Southern Deputy to Grambling State VP/AD

21:50 President Gallot's Experience as a State Senator/Representative Before Presidency

25:50 If Not for College Athletics, Would Presidents Talk to Each Other as Much?

29:00 How Do We Adjust APR for NIL, Transfer Portal if HBCUs Become Feeder for Transfer-Outs?

35:00 Institutions in University Systems & Different Conferences Collaborating on Athletics Decisions

42:22 Why President Gallot Thinks GCU is Well-Positioned for Uncertain NCAA Futures

Elliott Charles joined me last week for an hour conversation about Chicago State. Days after recording, Charles was reported as leaving the institution for a consulting opportunity. With his permission I have made this podcast available as a resource for those interested in becoming the next AD at Chicago State University. We spoke at length about his initial reactions in pursuit of the AD job and the first days in the chair. Then Charles talks about experiences the last two years leading through Covid-19 and his thoughts on the recently tabled legislation of the 21st Century Model for men's soccer after helping with the initial proposal while at Clemson. The conversation turned to the current challenges of not having a conference home and what role the president has for the athletic department in helping fulfill the institution's goals.

0:20 Institutional Profile

3:45 21st Century Model for Men's Soccer

14:35 Initial Reactions to Chicago State During Search

19:55 Creating Plan for Athletic Department

23:45 First to Cancel Sports During Covid-19

33:03 CSU President Scott Crisis Management & Legal Background

37:35 CSU President Scott's Goals & Vision for Athletics

44:00 Trying to Find a Permanent Conference

50:55 Difficulty & Consideration in Joining a Conference

DeWayne Peevy became the Vice President and Athletic Director at DePaul University in the Fall of 2020 after serving in senior administration roles at the University of Kentucky. Peevy shares an institutional profile of DePaul and then we walk back the transition from a school like Kentucky to now leading DePaul and what he learned from UK Athletic Director Mitch Barnhart in his 12 years that helped prepare him to lead his own department. Peevy shares the story of why he felt it was the right time for him to become an athletic director as a black administrator in an influential leadership position in the industry. Moving back to the vision for DePaul, Peevy talks about the benefits and challenges being a D1 athletic department in the crowded city of Chicago. As someone known for building incredible sporting events like the CBS Sports Classic, Peevy closes out the conversation talking about the future of those types of events for other sports, too, and how regular season popularity will continue to build in sports like women's basketball, softball, baseball and soccer.

01:26 Institutional Profile

04:00 Working for Mitch Barnhart

08:05 Decision to Pursue AD Job Finally

15:20 Advice for Navigating Direction & Priorities of an AD Job Opening

19:02 Investing in Human Capital Despite Having Less Resources

22:27 Co-Existing in a Crowded College Sports City (Chicago)

26:32 Creating a Major Women's Basketball Regular Season Event

30:31 How to Match Regular Season Popularity w/ Post-season Excitement in Women's Basketball, Softball, Baseball & Soccer

35:35 Day One Mentality at DePaul Athletics

Dr. Lisa Campos is the VP and Athletic Director at University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA). UTSA just recently achieved Research One (R1) Carnegie classification for very high research activity. The school caught national attention this past year from football success and that is a big portion of this episode. Campos talks about playing home games off campus in the Alamo Dome and provides input on the structure of the 10-year contracts in college football. UTSA has also leveraged that football success to join the American Athletic Conference (AAC) in the latest round of conference realignment, which Campos shares her thoughts on the balance of football success and location in conference positioning. Campos has a background in student affairs and explains how she went from working in student affairs to working in college athletics and how she uses that background in her role as AD, including interacting with students on campus in that VP role. Campos also talks about her journey pursuing a doctorate in educational leadership at UTEP. This episode is a nice blend of higher education and intercollegiate athletics as we talk about what Campos learned by being an employee and student in the UT system at another school (UTEP) and how that helped her in the transition to lead UTSA.

Editor Note: It turns out I tested positive for COVID-19 the night of this interview so you may notice losing voice or change in tone.

0:55 Institutional Profile

2:42 Growth of City Location Athletic Brands

5:30 UT System Experience Carryover from UTEP to UTSA

7:35 Student Affairs Background Before Athletics Administration

14:02 Creating a Great Experience for ALL Students as the Vice President

16:25 Doctorate Degree

20:15 Football Off Campus Success in Alamo Dome

23:55 10 Year Football Coaching Contract Trends

28:34 Changing to the American Athletic Conference (AAC)

29:40 Experiencing Conference Realignment as a Sitting AD

32:30 Institutional Task List for Preparing to Change Conferences

Tom Burman, an alumnus of University of Wyoming, has been the institution's Athletic Director for more than 15 years and you can hear the passion he has for Wyoming throughout this entire interview. Burman talks about the advantage and challenges for revenue generation being the main sports entertainment in a state full of tough terrain to travel, and the smallest state by population in America. Burman left Wyoming earlier in his career to serve as AD at Portland State from 2000 to 2006 before returning to lead Cowboys athletics. I was curious whether leaving to be an AD somewhere else made returning to Wyoming an easier transition being AD with actual AD experience. In response, Burman shares his thoughts on some concerning trends in AD hires and the indecision surrounding what jobs to take and what titles to collect along the way. The conversation then turns to how Wyoming has possibly the coolest logo in all of college sports and Burman discusses mascot history, brand power, and using Cowboys/Cowgirls instead of some schools adding "Lady." Wyoming is one of the rare FBS institutions to get Power 5 non-conference football games at HOME, so we discussed his ability to get those contracts and what he thinks the future of football scheduling will look like for FBS schools. Burman talks about his concerns surrounding the transfer portal but acknowledges that he does understand why it exists. The conversation ends with Burman offering several pieces of advice for current and future athletic administrators on the career changes they will be faced in a changing college athletics industry.

0:17 Institutional/State of Wyoming Profile

5:28 Advantages & Challenges for Revenue Generation at UW

8:25 Coming Back to Wyoming as AD

10:30 An Industry Trend Burman Does Not Like in Power 5 AD Hires

13:30 Discussing Future Trends in Job Titles & AD Hires

18:10 History of the Coolest Logo in College Athletics

24:10 Horse and Pony Live Mascots (Pistol Pete & Cowboy Joe)

25:08 Using "Wyoming" and "Cowboys" & "Cowgirls"

30:08 Ability to Get Strong Home FB Games w/ Power 5 Schools

32:33 Future of Non-Conference FB Scheduling w/ Power 5

35:00 Industry Challenges Ahead for FBS & FCS (Compensation & Transfers)

41:00 What Keeps You Excited to Stay in the AD Chair

44:25 Parting Advice for Current/Future Administrators from Tom Burman

Mark LaBarbera, Athletic Director at Valparaiso University, recently announced his retirement at the end of the 2021-2022 academic year. LaBarbera joined Higher Ed Athletics for a deep dive on the institutional processes and behind-the-scenes decision-making in changing their nickname from the Crusaders to the Beacons amidst controversy. After discussing the nickname the conversation turns to revisiting the two previous conference realignments Valpo went through under LaBarbera's leadership and understanding why both made sense at the time. LaBarbera shares some historical details about the Pioneer Football League, which does not offer athletic scholarships, and explains why that model is successful and helpful for Valpo. LaBarbera ends the conversation talking about how tough the last two years has been and how he and other experienced athletic directors have to begin thinking about passing the torch and letting the next generation of athletic administrators have their turn.

0:30 Institutional Profile

2:23 Name Change Background & Process

10:00 Just "Valpo," & No Nickname?

11:55 Procedurally Deciding On Beacons

13:54 Determining If & When to Make a Name Change

18:40 Two Themes from Survey

20:35 The Names They Did NOT Choose

22:15 Tactical Operational Advice After Name Change

29:10 Lighthouse with Legs as Next Mascot?

33:15 Revisiting Two Previous Valpo Conference Realignments

37:40 Predicting Current Conference Realignment

40:40 Pioneer Football League History Lesson

46:35 Passing the AD Torch

Chris Clunie graduated from and played basketball at Davidson College. He starts the conversation off by sharing the thought process of taking the Athletic Director job after his initial resistance to the idea. Discussing his interview preparation, Clunie explains how he knew the place as an alum, but that he didn't yet know the job of being an AD. His prior experiences working in the NBA, most notably handling international basketball operations, the draft combine, and All-Star weekend, helped him learn how to communicate and work with so many different personalities and stakeholders. When asked about balancing different personalities in regards to coaches across an entire athletic department, Clunie shares his philosophy of instilling shared ownership with his coaches at Davidson. The conversation discusses NIL confusion and risks surrounding international college athletes and how institutions can really only educate and make an attempt to seek clarity on their behalf. Clunie sits on the senior leadership team for the president and shares how he sees it as his job to keep a pulse of different college department happenings on campus and not allow athletics to operate in a silo, but instead serve as a part of a cross-functional institution. Being a new AD at the time, Clunie talked about the benefit of having his predecessor to lean on early in his tenure, but to also know how to chart your own path as a department looking forward. It took almost 30 minutes before we talked about Steph Curry's time at Davidson. Clunie explains his quote about wanting to move from the national story flashpoint to a sustainable and established athletic program. Clunie shares his two concerns in higher education (tuition ROI) and athletics (pay-for-play) and expands about the benefit for Davidson being in the non-athletic scholarship Pioneer League for football while still being at the D1 level. To close the conversation, Clunie talks about his own education at Columbia for his master's degree and how it made him become more intentional and focused on critical thinking, economics, and management.

0:30 Institutional Profile

2:55 Basketball Alumnus Becomes Athletic Director

6:38 Transferring Skills from NBA Business Operations to the AD Chair

12:15 International Name, Image, and Likeness

17:27 Who Helped Create Davidson NIL Policy

19:55 Staying Involved w/ Everything Davidson College Outside of Athletics

24:15 Deciding When to Lean or Not Lean on His AD Predecessor

27:45 Moving From a National Story "Flashpoint" to an Established Program

33:45 Under the Radar Top Concerns in D1 Athletics

40:20 Master's Degree in Public Affairs at Columbia

Chrissi Rawak joined Higher Ed Athletics to talk about leading the Blue Hens and begins the conversation with an institutional profile. Rawak had several different roles in college athletics and shares what made her decide to pursue an AD position. Rawak talks about the decision to create a chief of staff position at Delaware and advice for what other athletic directors might want to consider if they are thinking about creating a chief of staff role after doing some research of her own. The conversation then turns to the role of talent management and professional development of her staff and why investing in them is so critical to the success of the department. Rawak knew it was incredibly important to integrate with the university and explains how and why the athletic department decided to create an internship program with 12-16 interns each semester that goes towards their degree. I then ask Chrissi what it takes to be a successful fundraiser and how someone without fundraising experience, or nervous to make the ask, can do to improve (the worst thing that can happen is they say "No"). Keeping with the tactical advice in this episode, I asked Rawak her philosophy on hiring and evaluating head coaches and she shares her thoughts on internal promotions and why she understands coaches moving for other positions is sometimes okay. The conversation ends with a discussion on the athletic department being responsible for oversight of recreation and club sports at Delaware, and whether that might be a trend in the future at other institutions.

0:20 Institutional Profile

4:42 Deciding to Become an AD

9:52 Chief of Staff Positions in Athletics

17:40 Talent Management in College Athletics

22:54 Creating a Robust Internship Program

29:45 Growing to Love the Role of Fundraising

39:15 Head Coach Hire & Evaluation Strategies

47:22 Athletic Departments Supervising Recreation & Club Sports

College athletics knows Fred Glass as the AD for 10+ years as an alumnus of Indiana University. But before IU, he had an incredibly successful career in government working for a mayor, a governor, a senator, and a president. Glass spearheaded a project for Indianapolis to build Lucas Oil Stadium and simultaneously create a massive convention center connected to the stadium. This was done to not only keep the Colts in Indianapolis, but to also bring major conventions and sporting events like the Men's Basketball Final Four, the Super Bowl in 2012, and the College Football Playoff national championship game in 2022. Fred shares his strategy in convincing Mark Cuban to make a major donation for what is now known as the Mark Cuban Center for Sports Media and Technology. And he discusses the process of pitching to NFL owners to host the Super Bowl and how that 1st experience helped them with their eventual successful bid to host on the city's 2nd attempt.

Glass talked with me about these experiences, in addition to his upbringing as a self-described "knucklehead," in his new book - Making Your Own Luck: From a Skid Row Bar to Rebuilding Indiana University Athletics. This book was the perfect blend of authenticity in understanding and embracing your entire library of life experiences, and full of strategic career advice for major deals and balancing politics and governing issues. Check out more details about the book here: https://www.fred-glass.com/