This episode explores how drones, cell phones, and other widely-available intelligence tools are turning civilians and aid workers into frontline witnesses—documenting war in real time, guiding humanitarian aid, and helping build evidence that could power future war crimes cases. 

Host: 

Gabrielle Sierra, Director of Podcasting, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

Guest:

Anthony Vinci, Cofounder and CEO, Vico; Adjunct Senior Fellow, Technology and National Security Program, Center for a New American Security (CNAS)

Sam Vigersky, International Affairs Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

We discuss:

Read more:

Anthony Vinci, The Fourth Intelligence Revolution

Sam Vigersky, “Beyond Conventional Aid: Institutionalizing Public-Private Partnership in Ukraine’s Humanitarian Response,” CFR.org

“Counting the Dead,” Human Rights Watch

“Listen, Run, Hide: How Russia Uses Quadcopter Drones to Hunt and Kill Civilians in Kherson, Ukraine,” Human Rights Watch

“UN Commission Concludes that Russian Armed Forces’ Drone Attacks Against Civilians in Kherson Province Amount to Crimes Against Humanity of Murder,” United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commissioner

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Why It Matters is a production of the Council on Foreign Relations. The opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the host and guests, not of the Council, which takes no institutional positions on matters of policy.