Shadi Hamid is an author, Atlantic writer, and Brookings fellow with a particular skill for pointing out the flaws in comforting popular assumptions. I’m a fan of Hamid’s work, including his latest book, The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea.

Three weeks ago, Shadi had a stray tweet about football fandom that drummed up some outrage at sports media sites. That’s not exactly why we’re talking, even if it is, in a roundabout way, how we came into contact. The anti NFL fan sentiment is a good jumping off point, though, to a broader discussion about sports, culture and whether it’s a force for good in society.

Our conversation touches on, but is not limited to:

* Football: Good for America?

* Is football uniquely American?

* How football in America is like hookah in the Middle East

* The allure of nervous crowd energy

* Shadi’s book on how liberalism and democracy are not synonymous

* The difficulty of accepting a system in which you can lose, big time

* The Cathedral, Yarvin, and the democracy-skeptical rightists

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