On today’s episode of How did it make sense I am joined by Nathalie Lasselin, a filmmaker, technical diver, explorer, and someone who dives where most people wouldn’t even go looking.

Nathalie’s story starts with an ambitious expedition called Urban Water Odyssey, a 44-mile dive along the St. Lawrence River with a large support team. The plan was meticulous, the team trained, and everything seemed under control, until the dive ran late, the river got busy, and night fell. When Nat surfaced, she was struck by a boat, and only then did the team realise a tugboat was approaching. They pushed her out of the way, but the near-miss revealed a gap in the operation: no dedicated lookout, broken communication, and the kind of task overload that makes obvious risks invisible.

What makes this episode powerful is not just the incident, but the deeper learning behind it. Nat breaks down how the expedition’s delays created cascading failures, how people’s perception of risk changes under pressure, and how the team culture their focus, trust, and ability to respond saved her life. This conversation is a reminder that you can’t design risk out of real-world operations; you can only build resilience and a team that can fail safely.

Find Nathalie here:

Website : www.aquanath.com

Non profit organisation : www.aquasubterra.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NathLasselinofficialpage/

Linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/nathalie-lasselin-72419721/en

Instagram: @aquanathstudios

Vimeo: https://vimeo.com/aquanath

0:00 Start of the story: Urban Water Odyssey

1:20 The dive runs late and conditions worsen

2:40 Nat surfaces and is hit by a boat

4:00 The tugboat appears: “They didn’t see us”

5:20 What went wrong: no lookout & communication failure

7:00 The role of team culture in the rescue

8:40 The bigger lesson: resilience and failing safely

10:00 Recommended reads and mindset resources

Connect with Gareth:

Human in the System

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Today on How Did It Make Sense? I’m joined by Steve Smith, a kindred spirit and expert in outdoor education and safety. Steve has spent decades in the outdoor education and safety world, worked across wilderness programs, Outward Bound, and the Student Conservation Association, helping people navigate the tricky balance between risk and learning. He’s also the author of Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education, where he unpacks how we can learn from near misses, mistakes, and everyday operational decisions.

In this episode, Steve shares a story that had me holding my breath: an experienced climbing instructor almost leaned back over a 100-foot cliff on a slipknot instead of a proper anchor. The near-miss was caught just in time, but, the story is far more than about one careless moment. We unpack what created the situation, how organisational decisions, over-engineered safety measures, and human nature all collide in high-stakes environments.

Resources mentioned / Connect with Steve

Safety Science Book on Kindle and Amazon. His Beneficial Risk book is available here.

Online classes associated with the chapters of the book

LinkedIN and website

Connect with Gareth:

Human in the System

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

In this episode, I’m joined by Sabine, a former midwife and flight attendant turned consultant, as we explore the hidden human factors at play in healthcare, specifically in the labour ward. Sabine’s research shines a light on the power dynamics between midwives and obstetricians, how professional identity shapes behaviour, and why normality and safety are not the same thing. We discuss how discourse, accountability and silos influence teamwork, often leaving women disempowered despite the best intentions of professionals. Whether you work in healthcare, safety or corporate teams, there is so much to take from this conversation about human factors and how culture is co-created.

Sabine shares the personal story behind the phrase ‘she’s just a midwife’, how it ignited her research, and why language like this matters. We also talk about the creative ways professionals navigate control and power, why team education still comes too late, and how cross-disciplinary conversations can help break silos. 

Connect with Sabine:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabine-f%C3%BCrst-1487891a8/

Resources Mentioned

Connect with Gareth:

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

In this powerful episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Justin Featherstone MC leadership consultant, former Army officer, and mountaineer. Justin shares an extraordinary account of survival after being trapped in a crevasse on Mont Blanc, this conversation dives deep into what happens when the unthinkable occurs and how leadership, trust, and human connection make all the difference.

Justin reflects on the life-or-death moment his climbing rope was severed, leaving him suspended upside down in the ice, and how a memory from combat (where kindness and accountability intersected) gave him the will to survive. We explore how true leadership is built not through hierarchy, but through vulnerability, courage, and compassionate decision-making. This episode is essential listening for those in the health and safety space, leadership development, and anyone curious about how people truly behave under pressure.

Books/resources

Nancy Kline – A time to think - Time to think: listening to ignite the mind.  Cassell Illustrated.

Professor Michael West – The Kings Fund Leadership - The King’s Fund (2019, October 25)

Rosalinda Torres – What it takes to be a leader TED Talk

Connect with Justin on LinkedIn

linkedin.com/in/justin-featherstone-mc-frgs-frai-9b958b6

Connect with Gareth:

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

What happens when someone tests your emergency plan—and no one’s ready? In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Marcus Dimbleby, ex-RAF Wing Commander and now partner at Effective Direction, about the moment he walked into an ops room and triggered the crash alarm on purpose.

We unpack how critical thinking, red teaming, and stress testing systems reveal the hidden flaws in safety procedures, leadership cultures, and team behaviours. It’s a story that moves from chaos to commendation, with lessons every business leader and risk manager should hear.

Connect with Marcus:

Resources Recommended:

Connect with Gareth:

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

In this episode of How Did It Make Sense? I sit down with Chris Davies, co-founder of Volaria Performance, to dig deeper into the idea of blaming up versus blaming down.

Chris shares a story from his military aviation days – a high-pressure scenario involving rapid descents, rotor overspeeds, and a well-intended but misguided fine imposed by leadership. It’s a classic example of where human error meets systemic misunderstanding.

We unpack the layers of this case: What happens when leaders focus on punishment instead of understanding? Why do we so often recognise the frontline worker’s rationality but fail to apply the same empathy upwards? And what are the risks when oversights at the top are dismissed as incompetence rather than pressure-driven decision-making?

We also explore how this kind of thinking shows up across industries – from healthcare to aviation, defence to energy. It’s not just about individuals; it’s about the systems they operate in, and the stories those systems tell.

This episode is a call to move beyond blame – in any direction – and towards curiosity, context, and connection. It’s for leaders, operators, and anyone trying to make sense of complexity in real-world systems.

Connect with Chris;

LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-davies-7633b62a/

Website - https://www.volaria-performance.com/

Resources Recommended:

When the Dust Settles by Lucy Easthope 

Alchemy by Rory Sutherland 

Connect with Gareth Here:

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I speak with Aaron Potash about a tragic diving incident in Monterey. A struggling student, a distressed instructor, and a beach full of bystanders—why did no one step in? This story raises important questions about how we recognise and respond to distress in high-risk environments.

We explore the bystander effect, training gaps, and Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE), a little-known but potentially fatal condition that may have played a role. Despite its increasing recognition in the diving and medical communities, awareness and early detection remain limited. Aaron shares how this experience reshaped his approach to diver readiness and risk management, emphasizing the need for better training, clearer distress signals, and stronger safety cultures.

Connect with Aaron:

www.originaloaktowndivers.com 

@originaloaktowndivers 

Resources Recommended:

Jessie Singers – There are no accidents

You can also listen to Jessie's episode on How Did It Make Sense here 

Connect with Gareth Here:

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

In today’s episode of How Did It Make Sense? I sit down with two fellow Lund University graduates, Liam Duggan and Natia Ellis, to dig into the realities of police use of force and the critical role of second-story analysis.

We start by dissecting a high-stakes policing scenario—a mental health crisis escalating to a fatal police shooting. The media-driven first story often simplifies these events, focusing on blame and hindsight bias. But what happens when we step back and consider the second story? Liam and Natia take us through their research, exploring the hidden systemic pressures shaping officer decisions—from policy constraints and training gaps to budget cuts and crisis response limitations.

Connect with Natia and Liam:

Natia Ellis | LinkedIn

Liam D. | LinkedIn

Resources Recommended

Friendly Fire by Scott Snook

Normal Accidents by Charles Perrow

Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke

Legacy by James Kerr

Connect with Gareth Here:

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

A planned electrical job. A misidentified live cable. A workplace accident that could have been fatal. What really happened, and what can we learn from it?

In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I am joined by Ken Mudd, a seasoned health and safety expert with over 25 years of experience across multiple industries. Together, they unravel the complex reality behind what seemed like a simple workplace accident—a contractor cutting into a live 415-volt cable, suffering burns in the process.

But as we dig deeper, we uncover a story that started months before the actual event. From conflicting business goals, delayed shutdowns, and assumptions about safety protocols, to communication breakdowns and systemic weaknesses in contractor management, this case is a classic example of how “accidents” don’t happen in isolation.

What lessons can we take from this incident to prevent similar mistakes? How do risk, business decisions, and safety intersect? And most importantly—what critical controls should have been in place?

If you’re in health and safety, leadership, or operations, this conversation will challenge the way you think about risk and responsibility in your workplace.

Connect with Ken Mudd:

Resources Recommended by Ken Mudd:

Connect with Gareth Here:

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here

A state-of-the-art Navy frigate collides with an oil tanker in clear conditions—so how could no one on board see it coming?

In this episode of How Did It Make Sense?, I sit down with human factors expert Kristian Gould to unpack the second story behind the high-profile 2018 collision of the Norwegian frigate Helge Ingstad. While the media fixated on blame and human error, Kristian reveals how this incident was anything but a simple mistake. We explore how background lighting, crew experience, shift handovers, communication breakdowns, and even systemic pressures in the Navy created the conditions for disaster. This conversation goes beyond the headlines to challenge the way we think about safety, accountability, and how organisations learn—or fail to learn—from high-consequence events.

If you're interested in decision-making, human performance, and how seemingly obvious failures often have deep-rooted causes, this episode is for you.

Find Kristian Here:

Kristian Gould | LinkedIn

Resources Recommended:

Publications by Gary Kelin

Streetlights and Shadows by Gary Klein 

Working Minds by Beth Crandall 

Human in the System 

Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential.

Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?"

Contact us here