Michelle Cloud-Hughes is a Cactus researcher, botanist and Desert Rat who specializes in one of my favorite cactus genera - Cylindropuntia: the genus of the dreaded Chollas. She has described a new species of Cholla, Cylindropuntia chuckwallensis, and spent 2 decades trudging up mountains and rockscapes of the Mojave, Sonoran and Baja Desert. In this podcast we talk about how Chollas bang, why deserts are some of the best places to study plant evolution, and why the sh*t they can't put solar panels on top of the parking lots of any of America's vast and expansive shopping and automobile culture slums.