Nora Princiotti and Nathan Hubbard, hosts of The Ringer’s “Every Single Album” podcast join Offline to talk about queen of pop — and queen of the internet — Taylor Swift. They break down how the one-time anti-hero has navigated the Internet Age to build one of the most successful music careers of all time and a fanbase that follows her on- and off-line. The three weigh streaming vs. touring as business models for musicians, question whether Taylor’s obsessive internet lurking is an asset, and share predictions for the last leg of the Eras tour. Then, Max returns to Offline’s tech roundup to unpack Elon’s ill-advised Twitter rebrand and Ron DeSantis’ cruel summer.

Special thanks to Margaret for providing Jon and Max with their new Forget Me Knits. Learn more at forgetmeknit.com

For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [email protected] and include the name of the podcast.