How to Fix the Internet

It seems like everywhere we turn we see dystopian stories about technology’s impact on our lives and our futures — from tracking-based surveillance capitalism to street level government surveillance to the dominance of a few large platforms choking innovation to the growing pressure by authoritarian governments to control what we see and say — the landscape can feel bleak. Exposing and articulating these problems is important, but so is envisioning and then building a better future. That’s where our podcast comes in. 

EFF's How to Fix the Internet podcast offers a better way forward. Through curious conversations with some of the leading minds in law and technology, we explore creative solutions to some of today’s biggest tech challenges.

Find the podcast via RSS, Stitcher, TuneIn, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and Spotify. You can find an MP3 archive of all our episodes at the Internet Archive. Theme music by Nat Keefe of BeatMower.

EFF is deeply grateful for the support of the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology, without whom this podcast would not be possible.

Where is the internet we were promised? It feels like we’re dominated by megalithic, siloed platforms where users have little or no say over how their data is used and little recourse if they disagree, where direct interaction with users is seen as a bug to be fixed, and where art and creativity are just “content generation.”

But take a peek beyond those platforms and you can still find a thriving internet of millions who are empowered to control their own technology, art, and lives. Anil Dash, CEO of Glitch and an EFF board member, says this is where we start reclaiming the internet for individual agency, control, creativity, and connection to culture - especially among society’s most vulnerable and marginalized members.

Dash speaks with EFF's Cindy Cohn and Danny O’Brien about building more humane and inclusive technology, and leveraging love of art and culture into grassroots movements for an internet that truly belongs to us all.

In this episode you’ll learn about:

• What past and current social justice movements can teach us about reclaiming the internet
• The importance of clearly understanding and describing what we want—and don’t want—from technology
• Energizing people in artistic and fandom communities to become activists for better technology
• Tech workers’ potential power over what their employers do
• How Wordle might be a window into a healthier web.

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at https://eff.org/pod210 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/djlang59/61577

Get It - pop mix by J.Lang Feat: AnalogByNature & RJay 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/djlang59/59729

Probably Shouldn't by J.Lang 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/JeffSpeed68/56377

Smokey Eyes by Stefan Kartenberg 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/58703

commonGround by airtone 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/Skill_Borrower/41751

Klaus by Skill_Borrower 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/NiGiD/62475

Chrome Cactus by Martijn de Boer (NiGiD) 

U.S. democracy is at an inflection point, and how we administer and verify our elections is more important than ever. From hanging chads to glitchy touchscreens to partisan disinformation, too many Americans worry that their votes won’t count and that election results aren’t trustworthy. It’s crucial that citizens have well-justified confidence in this pillar of our republic.

Technology can provide answers - but that doesn’t mean moving elections online. As president and CEO of the nonpartisan nonprofit Verified Voting, Pamela Smith helps lead the national fight to balance ballot accessibility with ballot security by advocating for paper trails, audits, and transparency wherever and however Americans cast votes.

On this episode of How to Fix the Internet, Pamela Smith joins EFF’s Cindy Cohn and Danny O’Brien to discuss hope for the future of democracy and the technology and best practices that will get us there.

In this episode you’ll learn about:

• Why voting online can never be like banking or shopping online
• What a “risk-limiting audit” is, and why no election should lack it
• Whether open-source software could be part of securing our votes
• Where to find reliable information about how your elections are conducted

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at https://eff.org/pod209 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

Pamela Smith, President & CEO of Verified Voting, plays a national leadership role in safeguarding elections and building working alliances between advocates, election officials, and other stakeholders. Pam joined Verified Voting in 2004, and previously served as President from 2007-2017. She is a member of the National Task Force on Election Crises, a diverse cross-partisan group of more than 50 experts whose mission is to prevent and mitigate election crises by urging critical reforms. She provides information and public testimony on election security issues across the nation, including to Congress. Before her work in elections, she was a nonprofit executive for a Hispanic educational organization working on first language literacy and adult learning, and a small business and marketing consultant.

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/Skill_Borrower/41751

Klaus by Skill_Borrower 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/58703

commonGround by airtone

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/NiGiD/62475

Chrome Cactus by Martijn de Boer (NiGiD)

It often feels like machine learning experts are running around with a hammer, looking at everything as a potential nail - they have a system that does cool things and is fun to work on, and they go in search of things to use it for. But what if we flip that around and start by working with people in various fields - education, health, or economics, for example - to clearly define societal problems, and then design algorithms providing useful steps to solve them?

Rediet Abebe, a researcher and professor of computer science at UC Berkeley, spends a lot of time thinking about how machine learning functions in the real world, and working to make the results of machine learning processes more actionable and more equitable.

Abebe joins EFF's Cindy Cohn and Danny O’Brien to discuss how we redefine the machine learning pipeline - from creating a more diverse pool of computer scientists to rethinking how we apply this tech for the betterment of society’s most marginalized and vulnerable - to make real, positive change in people’s lives.

In this episode you’ll learn about:

• The historical problems with the official U.S. poverty measurement
• How machine learning can (and can’t) lead to more just verdicts in our criminal courts
• How equitable data sharing practices could help nations and cultures around the world
• Reconsidering machine learning’s variables to maximize for goals other than commercial profit. 
   

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at https://eff.org/pod208 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/djlang59/59729

Probably Shouldn't by J.Lang

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/Skill_Borrower/41751

Klaus by Skill_Borrower 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/58703

commonGround by airtone

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/JeffSpeed68/56377

Smokey Eyes by Stefan Kartenberg 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/NiGiD/62475

Chrome Cactus by Martijn de Boer (NiGiD)

Computer scientists often build algorithms with a keen focus on “solving the problem,” without considering the larger implications and potential misuses of the technology they’re creating. That’s how we wind up with machine learning that prevents qualified job applicants from advancing, or blocks mortgage applicants from buying homes, or creates miscarriages of justice in parole and other aspects of the criminal justice system.

James Mickens—a lifelong hacker, perennial wisecracker, and would-be philosopher-king who also happens to be a Harvard University professor of computer science—says we must educate computer scientists to consider the bigger picture early in their creative process. In a world where much of what we do each day involves computers of one sort or another, the process of creating technology must take into account the society it’s meant to serve, including the most vulnerable.

Mickens speaks with EFF's Cindy Cohn and Danny O’Brien about some of the problems inherent in educating computer scientists, and how fixing those problems might help us fix the internet.

In this episode you’ll learn about:

• Why it’s important to include non-engineering voices, from historians and sociologists to people from marginalized communities, in the engineering process
• The need to balance paying down our “tech debt” —cleaning up the messy, haphazard systems of yesteryear—with innovating new technologies
• How to embed ethics education within computer engineering curricula so students can identify and overcome challenges before they’re encoded into new systems
• Fostering transparency about how and by whom your data is used, and for whose profit
• What we can learn from Søren Kierkegaard and Stan Lee about personal responsibility in technology. 

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at https://eff.org/pod207 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/djlang59/59729

Probably Shouldn't by J.Lang (c) copyright 2019 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/58703

commonGround by airtone (c) copyright 2018 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/mwic/58883

Xena's Kiss / Medea's Kiss by mwic (c) copyright 2018 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/Skill_Borrower/41751

Klaus by Skill_Borrower (c) copyright 2013 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/NiGiD/62475

Chrome Cactus by Martijn de Boer (NiGiD) (c) copyright 2020

Too many young people – particularly young people of color – lack enough familiarity or experience with emerging technologies to recognize how artificial intelligence can impact their lives, in either a harmful or an empowering way. Educator Ora Tanner saw this and rededicated her career toward promoting tech literacy and changing how we understand data sharing and surveillance, as well as teaching how AI can be both a dangerous tool and a powerful one for innovation and activism.

By now her curricula have touched more than 30,000 students, many of them in her home state of Florida. Tanner also went to bat against the Florida Schools Safety Portal, a project to amass enormous amounts of data about students in an effort to predict and avert school shootings – and a proposal rife with potential biases and abuses.

Tanner speaks with EFF's Cindy Cohn and Jason Kelley on teaching young people about the algorithms that surround them, and how they can make themselves heard to build a fairer, brighter tech future.

In this episode you’ll learn about:

• Convincing policymakers that AI and other potentially invasive tech isn’t always the answer to solving public safety problems.
• Bringing diverse new voices into the dialogue about how AI is designed and used.
• Creating a culture of searching for truth rather than just accepting whatever information is put on your plate.
• Empowering disadvantaged communities not only through tech literacy but by teaching informed activism as well.

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at https://eff.org/pod206 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

Meet Me at Phountain by gaetanh (c) copyright 2022 http://ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/64711

Hoedown at the Roundabout by gaetanh (c) copyright 2022  http://ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/64711

JPEG of a Hotdog by gaetanh (c) copyright 2022 http://ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/64711

reCreation by airtone (c) copyright 2019 http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/59721    

The joy of tinkering, making, and sharing is part of the human condition. In modern times, this creative freedom too often is stifled by secrecy as a means of monetization - from non-compete laws to quashing people’s right to repair the products they’ve already paid for.

Adam Savage—the maker extraordinaire best known from the television shows MythBusters and Savage Builds—is an outspoken advocate for the right to repair, to tinker, and to put creativity and innovation to work in your own garage. He says a fear-based approach to invention, in which everyone thinks secrecy is the path to a big payday, is exhausting and counterproductive.

Savage speaks with EFF's Cindy Cohn and Danny O’Brien about creating a world in which we incrementally keep building on each others’ work, keep iterating the old into new, and keep making things better through collaboration.

In this episode you’ll learn about:

• How cosplay symbolizes what’s best about the instincts to make and share
• Why it’s better to live in the Star Trek universe than the Star Wars universe
• Balancing the desire for profit with wide dissemination of ideas that benefit society and culture
• Building a movement to encourage more people to be makers - and getting the law out of the way

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at https://eff.org/pod205 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

JPEG of a Hotdog by gaetanh http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/6471

Tall Glass of Turnip Juice by gaetanh http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/6471

Gone for Smokes by gaetanh http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/6471

Declan’s Dipsy Doodle by gaetanh http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/6471

Whose Hand is That by gaetanh http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/gaetanh/6471

Democracy means allowing everyday people to have their voices heard on public matters involving their communities. One of the goals of civic technology is to allow a more diverse group of people to have input on government affairs through the use of technology and the internet. 

Beth Noveck, author of Solving Public Problems and Director of the Governance Lab, chats with EFF's Cindy Cohn and Danny O'Brien about how civic technology can enhance people's relationship with the government and help improve their communities.

In this episode you’ll learn about:

• What civic technology is and how it can be used to approach and fix public problems while enhancing the relationship between people and their government.
• The importance of deciding what problem you are trying to solve before working on a solution.
• Ways that civic technology can ensure that the government is held accountable for its actions.
• How we can build civic technology tools to increase inclusion, specifically for those who have been marginalized or previously left out of the conversation.
• Why civic technology allows for more people to get engaged in their democracy.
• The good and bad that can come with governments increasing their knowledge of technology.

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at https://eff.org/pod204 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/djlang59/37792

Drops of H2O (The Filtered Water Treatment ) by J.Lang Ft: Airtone

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/mwic/58883

Xena's Kiss / Medea's Kiss by mwic 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/AlexBeroza/59612

Kalte Ohren by Alex Ft: starfrosch & Jerry Spoon

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/snowflake/59564rr4

Come Inside by Snowflake Ft: Starfrosch, Jerry Spoon, Kara Square, spinningmerkaba

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/zep_hurme/59681

Come Inside by Zep Hurme Ft: snowflake

Today almost everything is connected to the internet - from your coffeemaker to your car to your thermostat. But the “Internet of Things” may not be hardwired for security. Window Snyder, computer security expert and author, joins EFF hosts Cindy Cohn and Danny O’Brien as they delve into the scary insecurities lurking in so many of our modern conveniences—and how we can change policies and tech to improve our security and safety.

Window Snyder is the founder and CEO of Thistle Technologies. She’s the former Chief Security Officer of Square, Fastly and Mozilla, and she spent five years at Apple focusing on privacy strategy and features for OS X and iOS. Window is also the co-author of Threat Modeling, a manual for security architecture analysis in software.

In this episode, Window explains why malicious hackers might be interested in getting access  to your refrigerator, doorbell, or printer. These basic household electronics can be an entry point for attackers to gain access to other sensitive devices on your network.  Some of these devices may themselves store sensitive data, like a printer or the camera in a kid’s bedroom. Unfortunately, many internet-connected devices in your home aren’t designed to be easily inspected and reviewed for inappropriate access. That means it can be hard for you to know whether they’ve been compromised.

But the answer is not forswearing all connected devices. Window approaches this problem with some optimism for the future. Software companies have learned, after an onslaught of attacks, to  prioritize security. And she covers how we can bring the lessons of software security  into the world of hardware devices. 

In this episode, we explain:

• How it was the hard costs of addressing security vulnerabilities, rather than the sharp stick of regulation, that pushed many tech companies to start prioritizing cybersecurity.
• The particular threat of devices that are no longer being updated by the companies that originally deployed them, perhaps because that product is no longer produced, or because the company has folded or been sold.
• Why we should adapt our best current systems for software security, like our processes for updating browsers and operating systems, for securing newly networked devices, like doorbells and refrigerators.
• Why committing to a year or two of security updates isn’t good enough when it comes to consumer goods like cars and medical technology.
• Why it’s important for hardware creators to build devices so that they will be able to reliably update the software without “bricking” the device.
• The challenge of covering the cost of security updates when a user only pays once for the device – and how  bundling security updates with new features can entice users to stay updated.

This podcast is supported by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation's Program in Public Understanding of Science and Technology.

If you have any feedback on this episode, please email [email protected]. Please visit the site page at eff.org/pod203 where you’ll find resources – including links to important legal cases and research discussed in the podcast and a full transcript of the audio. 

Music for How to Fix the Internet was created for us by Reed Mathis and Nat Keefe of BeatMower. 

This podcast is licensed Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International, and includes the following music licensed Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported by their creators: 

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/djlang59/37792

Drops of H2O (The Filtered Water Treatment ) by J.Lang Ft: Airtone

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/admiralbob77/59533

Warm Vacuum Tube  by Admiral Bob Ft: starfrosch

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/mwic/58883

Xena's Kiss / Medea's Kiss by mwic

http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/airtone/59721

reCreation by airtone