In this Institute of Economic Affairs podcast, IEA Executive Director Tom Clougherty interviews Johan Norberg, author of the new book "Peak Human: What We Can Learn From the Rise and Fall of Golden Ages." Norberg, a prominent figure in the global freedom movement since his 2001 work "In Defence of Global Capitalism," explores what makes civilizations flourish and why they eventually decline. The conversation examines the essential preconditions for golden ages throughout history, including the importance of openness to other cultures, innovation, rule of law, and a crucial psychological element - the cultural optimism and self-belief that drives societies toward progress.

The discussion covers fascinating historical case studies from Norberg's book, including the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad, the Dutch Republic, and the Anglosphere golden age that began with the Glorious Revolution. Norberg argues that successful civilisations both imitate and innovate, learning from other cultures while creating new combinations of ideas and technologies. He identifies concerning parallels between today's populist right and woke left, both of which reject the cultural openness that has historically driven progress. The conversation also explores the accumulation of veto powers and interest groups that gradually stifle innovation, drawing connections to theories by economists like Mancur Olson.

The interview concludes with an examination of whether our current golden age can be sustained indefinitely. Norberg discusses the threats facing Western civilisation, including aging populations, excessive regulation, and the potential retreat of American global leadership. However, he maintains cautious optimism, arguing that civilisations decline through choices rather than natural aging, and that the classical liberal emphasis on individual agency and institutional reform offers hope. The conversation touches on the Industrial Revolution's true legacy, the importance of urbanisation for progress, and the challenge of making liberalism inspiring in an age of quick political fixes.

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