Kristen Ghodsee and Marilyn Waring talk to Kathryn Ryan about the fight for valuing women's economic contribution to society - at the 2020 New Zealand Festival writers' programme.

American ethnographer Kristen Ghodsee and activist-writer Marilyn Waring talk to Kathryn Ryan about the fight for valuing women's economic contribution to society.

Recorded at the 2020 New Zealand Festival writers' programme.

Listen to the conversation here

From the discussion:

Kathryn Ryan:

We see governments beginning to attempt well-being exercises that look at things like unpaid labour. You were scathing in your recent BWB book Still Counting over how the Treasury here has designed the wellbeing framework. When we begin to analyse unpaid labour as part of our economies, where does it go wrong? Where is it so often misguided?

Marilyn Waring:

I think the key problem is that we do try to make a monetary value for it. And that way we co-op entirely into this system that thinks, that munitions manufacturing and the black market and everything from pharmaceuticals to armaments is all great for growth. I don't find it an answer to think then we'll go and also put a market value on the work that is creating and sustaining humans on the planet.

Marilyn Waring:

And besides, like Kristen, over the years, I've got really sick of it always being undervalued. A few look at the discriminatory payments made in care paid work, which are overwhelmingly gendered. If you have ever cared for somebody who is totally dependent, you will know this is not about toileting, showering, feeding. This is an extraordinary technical, logistical, administrative, scarcely-sleeping endeavour. That's what it is. It's a very high powered job.

Marilyn Waring:

So I get really tired of seeing it encapsulated in this little silo called caring. Then I do not know an efficient woman carer, who does not do two or more tasks simultaneously. If you're only doing one, you wonder what you're doing wrong. We do know from time-use surveys that there's a really major distinction between the simultaneity of output of women and the singularity of men doing a task. And we can measure the time this takes.

It's not one of those cheap and dirty telephone calls that says, "Do you remember what you did in the last 48 hours?" Or, you know, one of the ones that just asked the head of the household - haha, like they would know - how much unpaid work is going on.

Marilyn Waring:…

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