In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will dive into the night of their wedding and what Steve did. Steve will start off by hilariously talking about how that day was “a great milestone” in his life because he had just given away his ex-wife. He left the wedding feeling like a huge burden had been lifted from him and the feeling was actually similar to what he felt the day he rode his bike away from Jessica after they had officially ended things. After that he had to redo his apartment with a friend of his because it had too much of Jessica’s taste in stuff, and that whole process was very therapeutic for him.

The three will discuss how reality hit Matt hard on their second night of marriage because he realized that he was in an almost similar situation to that of his first marriage where in the beginning being married to Ann was so much of a burden for him because he had found himself providing for a new wife (who was not so good with finances) and a baby on the way without even getting to have a honeymoon phase in their relationship. Steve understood what that dilemma was like for Matt, and was afraid that his marriage to Jessica was somewhat similar in that regard, because with Jessica, he also found himself with the same kind of responsibilities, if not more.

Matt and Jessica will then share what their honeymoon was like and all the amazing places they visited before getting back home to real life, and how they went on to have a rough first few years. Matt will flashback to their honeymoon trip where they were in an airport heading to Guatemala, and Jessica suggested that they should go have sex in one of the bathrooms, but Matt couldn’t do it because he wasn’t used to having a very active sex life during his first marriage. That is something that he struggled with for a while during their marriage, but he eventually managed to rid himself of it. Listen in to hear more of the story because it’s going to be super insightful about the fact that relationships have diverse challenges and how to deal with them to come out stronger at the end.

Highlights of the Discussion: 

• Weed, bongs, and Matt’s knowledge on almost everything (01:02)
• Jessica’s funny laugh and the fun of listening to the show at a 1.5 speed (04:44)
• What Steve did on Matt and Jessica’s wedding night (06:48)
• How Steve had to redo his apartment because it used to scream “ex-wife” (10:53)
• The friend who helped Steve from spiraling down to a bad place (18:00)
• Sorting out and getting rid of Ann’s stuff (14:34)
• The communication issues Matt had from his previous marriage (20:48)
• One of the major things that were really hard for Matt in their young marriage (27:39)
• Waiting until marriage to have sex and how important it is for connection (34:17)
• How Steve used to feel like Jessica’s misfortunes were his fault (38:27)
• A change from the mentality of courtship to real life (42:03)

Additional Resources:

• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will talk all about the week before Matt and Jessica got married. Jessica will talk about how empowering her bachelorette party was because of all the awesome things she got to experience like learning how to pole dance and lap dance. Matt on the other hand doesn’t remember much of his bachelor party except that they went long-boarding, because he had to go to Ann’s house after she called him and asked him to go pick up their kids because her husband had physically abused her.

He considered calling the police on the man but the man’s mum was present at the scene and she requested him not to because it would destroy his future. Matt had to take his kids away from that scenario, and he took them to stay with Jessica, which was the first time she had all three kids with her. That experience gave their marriage a little bit of a weird start because it affected Matt so much.

On the day of the wedding, Jessica recalls that Matt’s daughter Sarah came up to their house to get ready with all the girls, and she all of a sudden got very emotional because there was an issue with her hair. But Jessica feels Sarah’s reaction to her hair issue was more about the fact that she couldn’t process that her dad was marrying someone else. Fortunately, Jessica’s aunt Cassie calmed Sarah down and got her excited. They all later went to the little chapel where they got married in the presence of a few members of their extended families and friends. Stay tuned to hear more of the heartwarming story about how the day went down.

Highlights of the Discussion: 

• How Matt hates it when Jessica plays with his ears (03:30)
• Jessica’s bachelorette party and taking classes in pole dancing and lap dancing (10:32)
• Matt’s horrible experience on the day of his bachelor party (12:26)
• How Steve met Ann and her husband for the first time (18:49)
• Steve going to the wedding and showing support for Matt and Jessica’s union and the therapy he had to go through a month before (22:01)
• The benefits of counselling and how everyone should get it even without having major issues (27:46)
• How Matt slowly disclosed to Jessica what really happened between him and Ann (33:24)
• Luncheon at the Golden Phoenix and the toast Steve had prepared that he didn’t do (34:07)
• Finding out if different aspects of a relationship work before getting married (43:28)

Additional Resources:

• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will continue their conversation on how dating was like for Matt and Jessica before they got married. They will dive into the subject of love languages, which refer to how different people love each differently. Jessica will explain how she is comfortable with her weird mix of love languages because everyone in her life loves her in their own unique way and she appreciates it. Matt’s love language towards Jessica for example, includes him understanding the importance of accepting Steve as part of their lives because he’s always known what Steve means to Jessica and Penny.

Steve’s love languages when he was married to Jessica and in life in general are physical touch, words of affirmation, and quality time. He was always very affectionate and touchy, especially in public. It took Jessica a lot of getting used to when she got married to Matt because Matt is not affectionate. However, he was more affectionate when they were dating, and made up for the inadequate affection by always writing cute texts and notes for Jessica. They will highlight the value of couples doing nice things for each other without expecting anything in return and address the issue where a woman doubts her partner’s motives when he does a nice thing for her because she thinks he just wants to score some sex in return. 

A nice gesture goes a long way in making a person feel loved, and for women especially, when it’s done with the expectation of nothing in return, they tend to show up better in the bedroom. Matt and Jessica will share so much more about the time they were dating, like how they never went out on many dates because they just couldn’t, and how Matt designed Jessica's ring and had it custom-made so he could propose to her with it. It’s all going to be a super interesting look at what a great relationship that can lead to marriage should look like, and so much more, so don’t miss out.

Highlights of the Discussion: 

• The first time the Hosanna shouts were done outside (03:29)
• Steve’s time of big self reflection when he always takes a good hard look at where he is in life and how he feels about it (06:23)
• The peace and calm of watching conference (09:18)
• Avoiding the habit of beating ourselves up and thinking we have to hit some high standard of something none of us are ever going to get to (12:00)
• Opening ourselves up to being okay with receiving love in different ways (16:15)
• Steve’s starvation for affection because of the quarantine (22:04)
• It doesn’t take much to show people love (23:08)
• Taking a birthday trip whether the quarantine is lifted or not (29:06)
• The backstory of how Matt designed a ring and proposed to Jessica (32:16)
• Getting married at an adorable teeny tiny church (35:13)
• How sewing, cooking, and food canning skills will come in handy during this time (40:10)
• Why Jessica never went mountain biking with Steve and yet did it with Matt (48:08)
• The bishop who not only married Matt and Jessica, but was also Steve’s bishop (52:25)

Additional Resources:

• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will talk about how dating was like for Matt and Jessica before they got married. They’ll start off the episode by sharing how they’re all doing with social distancing and "sheltering in place" due to the global Coronavirus pandemic. Things have been out of balance for Steve because all he’s been doing is work (working a ton of hours because they laid off 12 out of their 17 employees) and self quarantine at home alone which makes him feel the loneliness of being single. Penny on the other hand has been doing a lot of reading and calling her cousin almost every day so they can do math problems together. They’ve even made things a little bit more fun by doing writing prompts.

Jessica’s experience has been a little bit different because she’s been guilting herself to tears for not doing enough stuff on a daily basis because of the limitations of the self quarantining. On some days she’s getting some things done to her satisfaction while on others she can’t do anything for a whole day, and that makes her feel like she’s failed, but she’s been learning not to be too hard on herself. Matt is also having different experiences with the whole pandemic and the chaos it’s causing in people’s lives, but he feels that everyone should be grateful and appreciative of the people who are out there still working so that everyone can still have access to essential goods and services.

Getting into Matt and Jessica’s dating, Jessica knew from the very beginning that they would end up together and several people in her life were also making suggestions that her and Matt would be great together, but it wasn’t until nine months were gone that they actually started dating. Matt was dating someone else, but when they chatted with Jessica he would express the fact that he wanted to break up with her because he was done with relationships. All the while Jessica was making sure Matt knew she was interested in him, and how they ended up dating will make for a hilarious and amazingly lovely story that you won’t wanna miss, so stay tuned.

Highlights of the discussion: 

• What the Coronavirus social distancing has been like (01:33)
• Penny’s amazingly creative writing skills (04:11)
• How people in a relationship are driving each other crazy from being self-quarantined together (13:36)
• The importance of being an engaged parent and how hard it is sometimes (14:39)
• Having some grace for others during this difficult time (23:14)
• How Matt and Jessica came to be, and how Jessica pulled a “New Girl” on Matt (31:11)
• Making moves on each other and going out on a real date (37:20)
• The friend of Jessica’s who hated Steve because of his laugh (39:07)
• Talking about marriage two weeks into dating (46:16)
• Stepping right into the void that Jessica left in the single moms club (48:52)

Additional Resources:

• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will have a conversation with Jason Dunnigan, better known as The Modern Dad on Instagram. His Instagram handle, the_modern_dad, is an ode to his message and belief that dads need to be more involved in their children’s lives than they traditionally have been. While he’s an expert social media marketer and runs global social media accounts for a craft company, his true passion lies in being a husband and father. He is married with four children, and is known for his love of shopping, fashion, and all things family focused.

Jason will hilariously share his great story about learning to love himself and being an awesome dad and husband. They will all start off by sharing what they’ve been going through with the effects that the Coronavirus related shutdowns have had on their personal lives. Jason’s journey started in Elementary school where he got teased a lot and the other kids thought he was gay because he liked jumping rope with the girls instead of playing with the boys. He wasn’t so much into most of the things that boys were into and that put a lot of social pressure on him because people kept saying mean things about him, and he just couldn’t understand what made people think of him that way when he was just being himself and enjoying it. 

That continued all through into his late teens until at one point when he got sick of it and decided to move to California where he experienced so much acceptance that he figured out all he needed to do is not care what anyone else thought of him, and just love and accept himself as he was. Now, Jason is the perfect example of what it means to live your best life by being true to who you are. Stay tuned as he shares how he got to the point of owning who he is and how that set him free, so you can apply the same to set yourself free from the confines of caring too much about what other people think of you.

Highlights of the Discussion: 

• Matt’s worst nightmare dressing rooms (02:19)
• Why Jason calls himself The Modern Dad (04:11)
• Knowing the comfort of leggings and doing the single ladies dance in a custom made leotard and heels (08:12)
• Having to still go to work despite being in a digital oriented position (12:57)
• How Jason learned to accept who he was and love himself (15:17)
• The biggest misconception that people had about him (22:30)
• Crazies of getting married at 30 and Jason’s opinion on online dating (26:15)
• The detriment of getting so caught up in who everybody else thinks we're supposed to be (34:16)
• Helping people accept and love themselves (43:24)

Additional Resources:

• Jason “The Modern Dad” on Instagram
• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will be talking about Matt’s dating life right after his divorce was finalized. He has been going through a very rough divorce because his ex-wife had insisted that she would be the one to file the divorce papers, and she dragged it on for more than a year and a half during which time Matt was going through the dry spell of the century. He wanted to start dating, and he weirdly expected lippage (making out) on the first date with the first person he would date, but his mom advised against it, so he shelved the dating idea altogether.

After the divorce was finalized, he could finally start dating, but he was having a hard time finding the kind of person he was looking for from the network of people he knew. So he joined a dating website called LDS Planet, and with his great copywriting skills, he was able to build a good dating profile that got him a lot of potential dates. The dating experiences he had with the different women were not so encouraging for him because he was looking for something serious with someone he had stuff in common with.

The one thing he didn’t like is the fact that about 75% of the women would lie about themselves on their LDS profiles. An example was when he went on a date with someone and noticed that she walked funny like she was handicapped, but she had never mentioned on her profile that she was handicapped. Matt will share the experiences he went through dating each of the women he dated before he met Jessica, and it’s going to be a mix of funny and inspirational storytelling that will definitely make your day. So make sure you stay tuned.

Highlights of the discussion: 

• Dealing with a very long dry spell and wanting lippage on a first date (03:35)
• Looking for somebody with common beliefs and who was truthful and faithful (07:42)
• Enjoying LDS Planet and selling himself with great copy (09:52)
• The experience Matt had with dating women who were not truthful about themselves (13:04)
• How people set themselves up for disappointment with dating (15:36)
• Four or five girlfriends before Jessica and some of the freaky things they were into (19:54)
• From touching ribs to choking: From one extreme to another (24:49)
• Dating the perfect girl and how Jessica started hitting on him three weeks into that relationship (30:17)
• Realizing that Jane wasn’t the one and sitting next to Jessica in church (37:06)
• The cycle of the never ending story that almost made him give up on marriage (40:58)

Additional Resources:

• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will dive into Steve’s dating life right after him and Jessica ended things, and they’ll start off the conversation with an interesting discussion on the type of guys he’s attracted to and likes to date. Right after ending things with Jessica for good, Steve dated Sebastian and after that too was over, he got into the dating scene in Boise. He had a bit of a rough time in the beginning because, as he later learned, he wasn't meeting the expectations of most of the guys who were interested in him, due to the fact that he was neither looking to mess around nor get into a serious long term relationship.

The first guy he dated was very understanding and gave him space because he knew he was just starting out in gay dating. He was a great guy and was actually also friends with Jessica even after he ended things with Steve to the point where he actually took care of her, did her hair for free, and even went out dancing with her. Jessica was always very supportive, loving, and welcoming of every guy Steve dated which made being new to gay dating much easier for Steve. She got comfortable with pushing the boundaries when it came to supporting Steve in his new lifestyle because she understood what Steve was doing was not personal to her or a reflection of how he felt about her. 

She knew Steve cared a lot about what she thought of his new life and all she wanted was for him to love and accept himself, and understand that she was okay with his new life. Steve will share how he got his first group of gay friends when he joined St. Michael’s church by the Capitol building in Boise. It was a very accommodating gay church but he only went there for six weeks because he discovered that religion wasn’t for him. It’s going to be quite an interesting episode getting to learn about Steve’s dating experiences and how they positively impacted Jessica’s life. You can also expect some awesome inspiration on acceptance of self and others, and how to make the best out of your relationships. Enjoy!

Highlights of the Discussion: 

• Steve’s “type” and how he’s attracted to qualities he wants to develop in himself  (05:14)
• The learning curve to gay dating and the two ends of the spectrum when it comes to gay dating (08:25)
• Enjoying a three-month relationship that would expire at the end of the summer (13:14)
• Standing by Steve and pushing him in his new gay dating life (15:52)
• Meeting all the guys Steve had short and long term relationships with and being friends with them even after Steve broke up with them (19:48)
• The church with the great gay clergy, gay choir, and gay everything (20:34)
• Taking his new gay friends to his ex-wife’s house for dessert (22:00)
• Being the straight person at a gay club and being groped by a gay man (28:00)
• The issue of standing in holy places and what it should really mean (31:44)
• The value of dating to learn (39:22)

Additional Resources:

• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will share the second part of their conversation with Lindsey Ellison, a speaker, writer, and relationship expert whose main expertise comes from her experiences and studies dealing with narcissists. Lindsey specializes in narcissistic abuse, and is the author of the bestselling book, “MAGIC Words: How to Get What You Want from a Narcissist.” 

She comes on to share her inspiring story from growing up with a narcissist father, being married to a covert narcissist, being divorced and single at 35, dating a psychopathic narcissist, and grappling with an identity crisis, to discovering what narcissism is, and starting to help people understand it. 

She will also discuss her step-by-step formula for creating a communication plan and script of empowering magic words that can help neutralize the power struggle that one has when they are co-parenting with a narcissist, and detail exactly what to do, how to do it, and why it works. If you listened to part one then you definitely won’t wanna this one. And if you haven’t listened to part one then you should go back and have listen before you jump onto this one. Either way, you’ll wanna stay tuned. 

Highlights of the discussion: 

• Being clueless about unconditional love and how narcissistic parents affect their children (00:53)
• Creating drama in her life so that she could get attention from her dad (06:14)
• The only way a narcissist can make things work in a codependent relationship (08:50)
• A classic narcissist move to identify one even when they seem to be a great guy (13:46)
• Teaching teenagers the consequences of narcissism to nip it in the bud (18:10)
• How narcissists get their supply from their own kids (20:01)
• The importance of teaching our children boundaries and to be okay with the consequences of the boundaries (24:01)
• It’s alway either outsmarting them or neutralizing the power struggle (25:44)
• A dysfunctional relationship is when someone doesn't respect your boundaries (30:40)

Additional Resources:

• Magic Words By Lindsey Ellison
• Unbreakable You: Breakup Without Being Broken Podcast
• www.LindseyEllison.com/
• Lindsey on Instagram
• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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You can find the podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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In this episode, Matt, Steve, and Jessica will have a conversation with Lindsey Ellison, a speaker, writer, and relationship expert whose main expertise comes from her experiences and studies dealing with narcissists. Lindsey specializes in narcissistic abuse, and is the author of the bestselling book, “MAGIC Words: How to Get What You Want from a Narcissist.” 

She comes on to share her inspiring story from being married to a covert narcissist, being divorced and single at 35, dating a psychopathic narcissist, and grappling with an identity crisis, to discovering what narcissism is, and starting to help people understand it, so they can stop being victims and take charge of their own lives. 

She will also discuss her step-by-step formula for creating a communication plan and script of empowering magic words that can help neutralize the power struggle that one has when they are co-parenting with a narcissist, and detail exactly what to do, how to do it, and why it works. If there has ever been a resourceful episode not to miss, it’s this one. So stay tuned. 

Highlights of the discussion: 

• Lindsey amazing backstory and her experience being with a narcissist (03:43)
• How she became a narcissism expert and found out that her ex-husband was a covert narcissist (06:27)
• Helping people understand narcissism and how skilled narcissists are at making their partners feel crazy (08:14)
• Levels of narcissism and the physical, financial and emotional abuse that comes with each (09:51)
• Boundaries are kryptonite to narcissists (15:44)
• The real tragedy of the narcissism disorder (19:22)
• Matt’s classic parental alienation experience with his ex (23:34)
• The work you have to do on yourself is to not be afraid of them (27:06)
• We attract our partners who reflect the parent that wounded us the most (32:11)

Additional Resources:

• Magic Words By Lindsey Ellison
• Unbreakable You: Breakup Without Being Broken Podcast
• www.LindseyEllison.com/
• Lindsey on Instagram
• www.Linktr.ee/TheBoldLogic

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You can find the podcast on Apple, Google, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

If you haven’t already, please rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts!