AJP Podcast host Carlene McMaugh spoke to Jenny Kirschner, founder of Pharmacy Addressing Loneliness and Social Isolation, to talk about her own experiences with loneliness, the factors which influence it, and what pharmacists can do to help – and to examine their own barriers to helping patients.

“I experienced a lot of loneliness in my twenties and thirties, and it really was a very painful experience,” Kirschner says.

“And like many people who experienced loneliness, there’s a lot of shame and a lot of stigma. So I hid it very well.

“I even remember working at the hospital that I was working at as a clinical pharmacist, and to the outside I was really outgoing and so people wouldn’t have known.

“But at home in my private life, I was living alone. I felt very lonely. So I really felt for a long time that people should talk about this more because as I learned more about loneliness, I learned that it didn’t mean something was wrong with me, it was just really human.”

But even when they have experience of their own, pharmacists are sometimes reluctant to engage with their patients about the issue, Kirschner says.

“Pharmacists see patients struggling with loneliness all of the time. And I think often we know that, but we don’t necessarily do anything about it.

“We are not comfortable. We feel like it’s outside of our scope. We feel like it might open Pandora’s box and be too much, and we wouldn’t know what to do with it.

“So I thought, well, actually there’s a lot that we can do that doesn’t take much time, doesn’t cost much, but could be deeply transformational for our patients, shifting them away from, or again, helping them through their loneliness experience.”

Kirschner opens up about not only her own experience, but her research into loneliness and the world-first training for pharmacists she has developed – and discusses the importance of observing and engaging with patients, as well as offering some practical ideas which can help them address their feelings.

She also looks at who may be most at risk and why; social prescribing; and the shift in social attitudes which may make it easier for some people to admit to this very everyday and human, yet stigmatised, set of feelings.

00:48 – What sparked your interest in this area?

03:09 – Is loneliness increasing in the population? What is behind this, and who is most affected?

“The statistics are unbelievable actually,” Kirschner says.

06:22 – “Technology per se doesn’t necessarily cause loneliness. It’s how it’s being used.”

08:57 – Has Covid had an impact – and what about politics?

10.37 – “Loneliness has maladaptive cognition affects meaning that people start to feel like even though you need connection as the remedy, you start to withdraw more socially because you feel judged because you feel like people don’t get you, you are not worthy. And so it’s kind of counterintuitive.”

12:02 – Do introverts and extraverts have different needs?

15:16 – The role of stigma and shame

17:03 – “When I mentioned the word loneliness… I whispered the word. It wasn’t on purpose. I just couldn’t say, I couldn’t relate myself to that experience of loneliness because it’s very painful.”

18:33 – The role of social skills

24:15 – What does social prescribing entail?

26:36 – Practical skills for pharmacists

28: 32 – Social health, and a case study

33.57 – Beyond the training

39:02 – “It’s not about medicines and it’s not about revenue or business. It’s actually about being better humans.”

41:00 – Loneliness among pharmacists, and providing support

You can access the full transcript of this podcast here. While we endeavour to ensure all important words and phrases are correct, please note there may be some minor inaccuracies in the transcription.

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