Julie Miecamp sets the stage at (00:00:04), framing how CLO ETFs jumped from niche to mainstream and why that shift matters now. She brings in Octus reporter Diana Bravo at (00:01:04) to lay out the stakes and context for the interview. John Kerschner joins Diana at (00:03:12) and walks through the ETF origin story, why CLOs fit the wrapper, how active design and investor education drove scale, and what the adoption curve really looked like for retail vs institutions.

Midway, they use the April “Liberation Day” wobble as a live case study, starting at (00:12:22), to explain spread moves, why price and NAV briefly diverged, and how the structure behaved under stress. The conversation then moves into ETF plumbing at (00:26:08) and in-kind vs cash creates/redeems at (00:28:23), clarifying why AUM down doesn’t automatically mean forced selling.

The global lens opens at (00:15:24) with Europe and UCITS access, including offshore tax considerations and early AUM. Competition and market share dynamics kick in around (00:13:10), highlighting how education and liquidity helped sustain first-mover advantage. Kerschner’s macro and risk outlook starts at (00:33:27), followed by a growth view on potential AUM scaling in the next 12–18 months. The rapid-fire close begins at (00:39:46). Julie returns to wrap the episode at (00:42:16) with takeaways and the subscribe nudge.

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Credits

• (00:04) - Opening: Julie sets the stage

At (00:00), host Julie Miecamp opens the episode and introduces reporter Dia Gill, who explains at (01:21) why she wanted to interview Ameneh Bordi, Senior Managing Associate at Sidley Austin. From there, the conversation turns at (05:41) to Ameneh’s unconventional career path, spanning Kirkland & Ellis, Amazon, and now Sidley, and at (12:43) she unpacks what she calls “odd duck” cases, the unusual matters that sit outside the typical Chapter 11 mold.

The discussion deepens at (13:04) as Ameneh reflects on navigating a male-dominated field while staying true to her own personality, and at (17:24) she describes how becoming a mother reshaped the way she balances boundaries, mentorship, and the demands of big law. At (19:58), the focus shifts to the Plenty bankruptcy, a case that showed the power and promise of Chapter 11, which moved from filing to emergence in just two and a half months (25:47). By (26:57), she’s exploring what venture-backed companies should learn from that experience, before turning at (28:53) to international restructurings and the evolving role of Chapter 15.

Later in the episode, at (33:25), Ameneh discusses whether US companies could realistically take their cases abroad, and at (35:14) she weighs in on the state of pre-packs, LMEs, and the tools companies actually use when time and panic are factors. The conversation closes at (37:03) with her big-picture reflections on 2025 restructuring activity, her predictions for the second half of the year (38:12), and a rapid-fire segment (39:03) on the phrases, skills, and rules she’d most like to change.

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Show Host: Julie Miecamp

• (00:00) - Host Julie Miecamp introduces the episode and sets the stage

In this episode of Industry Insights: Exclusive Interviews host Julie Miecamp introduces a sweeping conversation on the evolution of private credit with someone who helped shape the space from the ground up.

Octus reporter Katherine Schwartz sits down with Michael Gross CEO and co-founder of SLR Capital Partners to explore how the once niche asset class has transformed into a highly liquid increasingly commoditized segment of global finance. From his early days at Apollo to building one of the most diversified platforms in the industry, Gross brings more than 30 years of experience to a candid and timely discussion.

They examine the post–golden age hangover, the decline of illiquidity premiums, and the shift from cash flow lending to asset-based strategies. Gross explains why real edge today comes from underwriting complexity, not chasing scale, and how institutional appetite is reshaping the market from the inside out.

The conversation also covers retail capital, documentation risk, and platform evolution... offering hard-earned perspective on where opportunity lives now and what investors are still getting wrong.

Plus, a rapid-fire close on what keeps Gross up at night, what he misjudged about life sciences, and the overlooked corners of credit he believes still hold real promise.

If you are trying to understand where private credit creates value in 2025, this is the episode to hear.

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Hosted by: Julie Miecamp

In this episode of Industry Insights: Exclusive Interviews, host Julie Miecamp introduces a timely conversation on municipal credit as the market reaches the halfway point of 2025.

Reporter Hoa Nguyen sits down with John Miller, Chief Investment Officer and Head of the Municipal Credit Team at First Eagle investments, to explore how investors are responding to tax policy uncertainty, April’s rate volatility, and shifting fund flows. They examine key sectors including senior living, charter schools, and state housing authorities, as well as the impact of ETF outflows, refunding rules, and the proposed increase to the SALT cap.

Drawing from more than thirty years in the market, Miller shares how institutional investors are thinking about credit risk, duration, and pricing power in a year that continues to evolve.

If you follow public finance or fixed income, this is a clear and focused look at what matters now.

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Hosted by Julie Miecamp

Hosted by Julie Miecamp, this episode of Industry Insights: Exclusive Interviews features a timely and wide-ranging conversation between Hugh Minch and Steve Baker, Global Head of CLO Primary at J.P. Morgan. From April’s tariff shocks to shifting investor dynamics, they break down what’s really happening in the CLO market and what might come next.

You’ll hear why Japanese investors have remained steady, how ETFs are adding both access and volatility, and where the opportunities are emerging across U.S. and European structures. Julie opens the episode with essential context, and Steve closes with a perspective built on 25 years of market experience.

If you’re navigating credit markets, this is the one to queue up.

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Hosted by: Julie Miecamp

Welcome to the debut episode of Industry Insights: Exclusive Interviews on the Octus Podcast Network! In this episode, Maryna Irkliyenko, Deputy Managing Editor of Debt Origination and Private Credit at Octus, sits down with David Hirschmann, Head of Credit Strategy at Permira, to explore the evolving dynamics of the credit market in Europe and beyond.

From analyzing the impact of the reopened syndicated loan market to uncovering opportunities in the European mid-market, Maryna and David dive into key trends that are reshaping private credit. They discuss the increased competition from direct lenders, the rise in club deals, and the pricing shifts influenced by dry powder levels and changing economic conditions. David also shares insights into Permira's approach to risk-adjusted returns, strategic focus areas, and the future of base rates.

This episode delivers exclusive perspectives on the current challenges and opportunities within credit markets, with valuable takeaways for investors, asset managers, and finance professionals looking to stay ahead.