Industry Insights: Exclusive Interviews

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing the state of European restructuring after 25 years of near-constant reinvention, from post-Lehman scheme innovation to the LME wave now redefining how deals get done. She sits down herself with Kon Asimacopoulos, partner at Sullivan and Cromwell.

Kon walks through the move from Kirkland after nearly two decades (04:30), the origins of the Fitness First and Travelodge CVAs that cracked open landlord restructurings in Europe (27:30), and how the practitioner mix has shifted from insolvency lawyers to debt-native operators (41:40). He shares his read on where LMEs go next, why 90% of his recent hires come from a debt background (54:02), and where the UK restructuring plan actually stands after a bruising couple of years (1:00:55). 

The rapid-fire close lands on Toys R Us, TikTok, and one piece of career advice he ignored.

• (00:00) - Introduction from Julie Miecamp

On this episode of Industry Insights, Julie Miecamp sets the scene before Kent Collier, CEO and founder of Octus, sits down with Kieran Goodwin, partner at Saba Capital, and Mark Fischer, director of credit research at Octus. Kent opens on how private credit went from the asset class that didn't break to one investors question daily (00:02:06), and the three start with Kieran's three decades in credit (00:02:48) and how Saba finds its edge (00:05:34).

From there they get into where private credit really stands (00:07:08), from a 2021 vintage already at 10% cumulative defaults to the recovery question Kieran says nobody wants to ask out loud (00:09:11). They cover what the BDCs are disclosing (00:09:42), redemption queues and the asset liability mismatch (00:12:27), the risk of forced sellers in interval funds (00:14:02), dividends that cash income no longer covers (00:16:34) and why discounted BDCs should be buying back their own stock (00:19:46).

The back half turns to software, roughly a third of private credit. They get into portfolio construction and concentration (00:23:36), Kent's hot take that Medallia was always a bad business (00:27:22), how thin workout expertise is across the street (00:30:38) and who actually sells stressed loans at 70 to 90 cents (00:31:38). They close on winners and losers in levered software (00:34:40), whether this is a liquidity crisis or a credit crisis (00:37:24), regulators circling (00:38:02) and why Kent thinks the pain trade is still ahead (00:39:54).

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Hosted by Julie Miecamp
Conversation led by Kent Collier, CEO and founder of Octus
With Kieran Goodwin, partner at Saba Capital, and Mark Fischer, director of credit research at Octus
Produced and edited by Tanya Hubbard
A production of The Octus Podcast Network

• (00:00) - Julie Miecamp introduces the episode

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing the scale of what has quietly become one of the fastest-growing corners of the credit market. In roughly 18 months, high yield and unrated AI infrastructure issuers have raised more than $107 billion, and the top seven players alone may need another $400 billion to $450 billion over the next four years to hit their stated capacity targets. She then hands off to Seth Brumby, Deputy Managing Editor at Octus, who sits down with Anton Gorbounov Senior Credit Analyst on the Octus credit research team.

Brumby and Gorbunov walk through what a data center actually is and why the industry splits into powered shells and neoclouds (03:26), the backstories of the operators, from former crypto miners to an "Airbnb for chips" (08:56). They pressure test the macro and micro risks, including contract economics, counterparty exposure and GPU residual value (11:02), before turning to the widening gap between how equity and credit markets are pricing the same names (15:46). The conversation closes on what to watch next, including the Anthropic and OpenAI S-1s (18:08).

A credit-first read on the sector everyone is watching and few fully understand.

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Hosted by Julie Miecamp
Guest Interviewer: Seth Brumby, Deputy Managing Editor Octus
Guest: Anton Gorbounov, Senior Credit Analyst, Octus
Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard
A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing a European private credit market bracing for a software reset, a refinancing wall building toward 2028, and a higher-for-longer rate environment that's quietly rewritten the playbook. The real risk, she notes, isn't the one everyone's arguing about. She then hands off to Lucia Camblor, Deputy Head of Private Credit and Deal Origination at Octus, in conversation with Mathew Cestar, President at Arini.

Two decades into building leverage finance at Credit Suisse and advising ICG's leadership, Cestar walks through why Arini exited software lending 18 to 24 months ago, well ahead of the reset now forcing the industry to explain itself (04:19), why the nearer-term threat to tech-heavy portfolios is cost of capital rather than AI disruption (08:49), and why years of pent-up restructuring in private markets are still working their way through the system (14:43). He pushes back on the assumption that scale equals safety in large-cap direct lending (17:10), makes the case for pan-European diversification over single-country concentration (19:04), and closes with why sponsorless lending, ABF, real estate credit, and infrastructure are the next legs of European debanking (27:04).

A conversation with a practitioner who has spent the full cycle inside European credit and isn't interested in the panel version of the story.

Closing Credits
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Hosted by Julie Miecamp.
Guest Interviewer: Lucia Camblor, Deputy Head of Private Credit and Deal Origination, EMEA, Octus.
Guest: Mathew Cestar, President, Arini.
Produced by Tanya Hubbard.
A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

• (00:00) - Introduction from Julie Miecamp

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing a CLO market that has changed almost beyond recognition: past $1 trillion in size, more than 160 managers issuing in the US alone, and the economics of CLO equity shifting under everyone's feet (00:06). She then hands off to Sid Punjabi, CLO Reporter at Octus, who caught Vince Pompliano, Managing Director and Co-Head of the US CLO Platform at Benefit Street Partners, at a real milestone: BSP just priced its 50th new issue CLO (02:19). Vince opens with the big picture, arguing the number one lesson of the past decade is that the structure works, with the waterfall, OC tests, and portfolio quality tests doing exactly what they were built to do (02:53). He pushes back on the negative headlines around Iran and the AI software scare, pointing to positive GDP growth, contained inflation, and borrowers still growing revenue and EBITDA (04:03), and lays out his base case for sustained gross issuance into 2026, helped by refis, resets, and short dated paper giving every investor an entry point (05:48). With the field this crowded, Vince argues return dispersion between managers is only going to widen, which makes the name on the deal matter more, not less (06:58), and walks through BSP's philosophy of building lower risk, more conservative portfolios that still deliver median or better equity distributions (07:45). He reflects on CLO 50 and the platform's growth from roughly $5 billion in AUM when he joined in 2014 to more than $30 billion globally today (08:41), before getting into consolidation, why access to capital and performance will separate the winners, and what actually earns a platform tier one status (13:43). The conversation then goes global: Japan's deepening bid and the rise of regional bank capital (17:51), how Korea, Hong Kong, and Singapore differ in risk appetite down the stack (19:18), and the untapped mezzanine and equity capital sitting in the Middle East (20:33). Vince gets philosophical on dislocation, explaining why diversification has to be built before volatility shows up, why BSP caps positions at 30 to 50 basis points, and why some of the best CLOs ever done were created in the worst moments (25:05). On the captive equity debate, he resets day one arb expectations around the familiar 12 to 15 percent target and makes the case that captive funds and ETFs are net positives for the market over time (33:21). He closes on reinvestment optionality as the critical driver of equity value (39:25), the role of CLO equity as a cash flowing complement to private equity in a portfolio (41:47), and the career lessons from his trading days, starting with the fact that this is still a relationship business (44:31). In the rapid fire, Sid gets the one misconception Vince would happily kill off, and the answer is three words: we are not CDOs (45:20).

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 Hosted by Julie Miecamp
Guest Interviewer: Sid Punjabi, CLO Reporter, Octus.
Guest: Vince Pompliano, Managing Director and Co-Head of US CLO Business, Benefit Street Partners.
Produced and Final Edited by Tanya Hubbard
A Production of The Octus Podcast Network
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Chapter
00:00:00 Introduction from Julie Miecamp
00:02:19 Sid Punjabi introduces Vince Pompliano
00:02:53 State of the CLO market and why the structure works
00:04:53 Loan market health and 2026 issuance outlook
00:07:53 BSP portfolio philosophy and lower risk construction
00:13:56 Manager differentiation and coming consolidation
00:17:39 Global investor base: Japan, Asia, Middle East
00:24:43 Playing offense during dislocation
00:32:47 CLO equity, captive funds, and resetting arb expectations
00:41:36 The role of CLO equity in a portfolio today
00:44:16 Career lessons and rapid-fire wrap
Closing Credits

FROM BSP - Important Disclosure: This podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any security or investment product or to adopt any investment strategy. The views and opinions expressed are those of the speakers as of the recording date and are subject to change without notice. Statements regarding market conditions, industry trends, portfolio characteristics, expected returns, economic conditions or future events are forward-looking statements based on current assumptions and expectations and are not guarantees of future results. Any references to specific asset classes, investment strategies, securities or transactions are provided for illustrative purposes only and should not be construed as investment recommendations. References to Benefit Street Partners' investment process, portfolio construction, or risk management reflect the team's current approach, which may change over time and may not be successful in all market environments. There can be no assurance that any investment objectives, return expectations, or risk management strategies discussed will be achieved. Past performance does not guarantee future results. All investments involve risk, including the possible loss of principal. 

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode by framing why European restructuring is at an inflection point. Part 26A is being shaped in real time through hard cases, liability management is now firmly transatlantic, and the question of what restructuring is actually for has not been this contested in years. She then hands off to Chris Haffenden, Senior Editor at Octus, in conversation with Andrew Wilkinson, restructuring partner at Weil.

Wilkinson has had a front-row seat to every major chapter of European distressed since 1985. He walks through how the scheme of arrangement, born in Bermudian insurance restructurings, became the engine for European high yield (06:04), how Eurotunnel's 14 tranches of debt accidentally created the European distressed trading market (11:01), and his Goldman years through the financial crisis, including the taxi ride to brief the Chancellor on Northern Rock (19:23). The conversation turns to the trio of Part 26A cases that have rewritten the playbook (29:54), and closes on why advisors have let restructuring get too complicated (41:31).

The throughline: fix the company, get it back to work. Somewhere the industry lost sight of that.

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Hosted by Julie Miecamp
Guest Interviewer: Chris Haffenden, Senior Editor, Octus
Guest: Andrew Wilkinson, Restructuring Partner, Weil
Producer Tanya Hubbard
A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

• (00:00) - Introduction from Julie Miecamp

Julie Miecamp opens with a simple observation: cross-border restructuring used to be a niche. A small group who knew which tools worked, which were theoretical, and how to close before the asset stopped being worth fighting over. It's not a niche anymore. She introduces Omar Vaishnavi's conversation with Peter Newman, Partner and Head of European Corporate Restructuring at Skadden, a lawyer with a simple view of what restructuring actually is: a company has too much debt, your job is to fix it, everything else is noise.

The conversation opens with how Part 26A has moved from contested novelty to a reliable instrument, with courts now applying two distinct fairness frameworks to value allocation (12:34). Newman explains why Chapter 11 remains the gold standard but isn't always the right vehicle, and how the UK restructuring plan's surgical approach made it the value-maximizing path for New Fortress Energy (17:22).

OceanRig anchors the episode's practical core (19:09): a cross-border restructuring Newman and Vaishnavi worked from opposite sides of the table, which succeeded because the deal moved faster than the dispute could. The teaching thread runs through the second half, with Newman drawing on seven years co-teaching at NYU to explain why the most powerful insight in restructuring is also the simplest (29:37). The episode closes with rapid-fire takes on the tools worth watching and what African Minerals taught him about the limits of a strong legal position (34:33).

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Hosted by Julie Miecamp
Guest Interviewer: Omar Vaishnavi, Head of Americas Coverage, Octus
Guest: Peter Newman, Partner and Head of European Corporate Restructuring, Skadden
Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard
A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

• (00:06) - Introduction from Julie Miecamp

Julie Miecamp opens the episode by framing the CLO market after a difficult 2025, noting that the pressure on CLO equity was less about credit losses and defaults and more about arbitrage compression, asset repricing, and liabilities that could not adjust as quickly. She then introduces guest interviewer Hugh Minch and his conversation with Ian Gilbertson of Invesco (00:02:09), which begins with the macro risks shaping leveraged credit today, including AI disruption, software-sector stress, geopolitical volatility, consumer pressure, and the question of whether the market still has the same shock absorbers it had during the 2022–2023 rate-hiking cycle (00:02:24).

Hugh and Ian then move into CLO issuance, pricing, resets, and refinancing activity (00:07:44), before discussing manager tiering and the shift toward larger, more diversified books (00:12:07). Ian explains why CLO equity had a difficult 2025 (00:16:17), emphasizing arbitrage compression over crystallized credit losses, then unpacks the captive equity debate (00:20:10), the growth of CLO ETFs and what they mean for liquidity and market structure (00:23:49), and the misconceptions that still come up in investor education. The episode closes with Ian’s outlook for the rest of 2026 (00:30:43), what institutional investors should ask CLO managers (00:31:33), and a rapid-fire round on credit discipline, ratings, career advice, and making decisions with imperfect information (00:32:27)

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Hosted by Julie Miecamp
Guest Interviewer: Hugh Minch (Managing Editor of Structured Finance Insights, Octus)
Guest: Ian Gilbertson (Co-Head of US CLOs and Portfolio Manager, Invesco)
Producer:  Tanya Hubbard
A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

• (00:00) - Introduction from Julie Miecamp

Associate Editor Armie Lee sits down with Tyler Gately, Head of North America Private Credit at Barings, for a candid read on the state of direct lending in 2026. Recorded as Q1 was wrapping up, the conversation cuts through the noise. Tyler opens with a reality check on the private credit headlines (00:00:36), then walks through what is actually driving volume, why add-on activity is accounting for 60 to 70 percent of dollars going out the door (00:01:13), and the fastest market repricing since COVID, with spreads gapping out 50 to 100 basis points as the retail BDC dollar pulls back (00:03:02). He covers the Q2 pipeline and the long-predicted M&A bounce-back question (00:04:45), and explains what this dislocation means for institutional platforms that deploy their own capital (00:08:18).

The second half digs into AI and software risk in private credit, why Tyler thinks the macro fear is overblown (00:10:13), and the new questions Barings is asking software borrowers today (00:12:55). He breaks down the Barings platform and how it has reconstructed the banking landscape for sponsors (00:16:27), the tale of two markets between retail and institutional LPs (00:18:01), and what actually separates a platform worth committing to from one that just looks good on paper (00:21:12). The conversation closes with Tyler's 2026 outlook (00:24:49), what starting his career in the 2008 financial crisis taught him about discipline (00:28:08), and a rapid fire round on mindset shifts, market trends, and what young credit professionals still get wrong (00:32:48).

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Hosted by Armie Lee
Guest: Tyler Gately (Head of North America Private Credit, Barings)
Produced and Edited by Tanya Hubbard
A Production of The Octus Podcast Network

• (00:00) - Armie Lee open’s the episode

Julie Miecamp, Deputy Global Head of Editorial at Octus, opens the episode (00:00) by framing the growing legal scrutiny around creditor cooperation agreements and why two recent antitrust lawsuits have put common restructuring tools under a brighter spotlight. As liability management transactions become more aggressive and creditor groups organize earlier in the process, Julie explains why the line between coordination and collusion now matters more than ever. She then introduces Kevin Eckhardt, Senior Director of Legal Analysis at Octus, who leads a detailed conversation with Doug Mintz, Co-Chair of the Financial Restructuring Group at Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP, and Brian Wallach, Co-Chair of the firm’s Antitrust Practice. The discussion begins with a practical breakdown of what creditor cooperation agreements are and how they evolved post-2020 (03:40), before turning to the Optimum lawsuit and the borrower’s claim that a creditor group functioned as a “market-blocking cartel” (07:10). From there, the conversation explores the legal theories at play, including per se versus rule-of-reason antitrust analysis (10:05), the challenges of defining the relevant market (14:20), and what discovery could mean if these cases survive early motions to dismiss (18:45). The episode then shifts to the Selecta litigation (26:10), examining creditor-on-creditor conflict and how courts may distinguish between competitive harm and ordinary restructuring behavior. The group closes by considering how these cases could reshape documentation, coordination strategy, and lender risk management going forward (34:30), offering a grounded look at how legal pressure may influence the next phase of private credit.

• (00:00) - Julie Miecamp Opens – Why Creditor Coordination Is Under Legal Scrutiny