What does it take to turn a banned psychedelic into an FDA-approved medicine?

Visit MAPS to read about the latest progress is psychedelic research: https://maps.org/

In this episode, we speak with Rick Doblin, founder of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), about the decades-long mission to make MDMA-assisted therapy a legal treatment for PTSD and other mental health conditions. Rick received his PhD from Harvard's Kennedy School of Government in public policy focusing on the regulation of medical use of psychedelics in 2001. Rick shares the science behind MDMA’s therapeutic effects, the strategy for winning over regulators, and the battles over claims of neurotoxicity. We discuss the history of psychedelic research, the rise of the underground therapy movement, and how clinical trials, policy change, and cultural perception must align to move psychedelics from stigma to science.

Whether you’re curious about psychedelic science, drug policy reform, FDA clinical trials, or the future of mental health treatment, this conversation delivers expert insight into the intersection of research, regulation, and real-world impact.

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Timestamps:

00:00 - Intro
01:32 - How Would Rick Describe a Psychedelic Experience?
05:02 - What is Rick's Favorite Psychedelic?
09:46 - The Underground is Ahead of the Research
12:45 - How Rick Got Interested in Psychedelics
26:39 - Can Psychedelics Stop War?
40:45 - Do People Need Trauma?
45:09 - Is America a Falling Empire?
52:08 - What if MAPS was in the YC?
55:00 - Why was MDMA the Choice to Push for Legality?
1:02:22 - The Origins of Modern Psychedelic Therapy
1:05:20 - Misinformation Around Psychedelics
1:17:12 - How MAPS is Developing Psychedelic Therapies
1:30:13 - How Should Healthy People Use Psychedelics?
1:38:05 - Psychedelic Experiences as Rites of Passage
1:42:02 - Finding Life's Purpose
1:52:49 - Why Do Fears of Psychedelics Persist?
1:56:44 - What Does It Take for Psychedelics to Get FDA Approved?
2:13:55 - Rick's Pet Wolf
2:23:39 - Rick's Last Interaction with his Wolf
2:30:55 - Psychedelic Group Therapy
2:33:37 - We Need More Psychedelic Therapists