When President Joe Biden dropped out of the race and the Democratic party rallied around Kamala Harris as his replacement, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper was widely considered to be a top choice to serve as Harris’s running mate.

But Cooper did something unusual: he told the Harris team he didn’t want to be considered as her running mate. On this episode of Deep Dive, host and Playbook co-author Ryan Lizza talks to Cooper about why he took himself out of contention and how some weird local politics influenced his decision. 

Also discussed in this episode of the show: Cooper’s conversations with Harris, Biden, and Nancy Pelosi as Democratic leaders navigated the post-debate crisis that lead to Harris’s ascension; how Cooper coached the president in the last days of Biden’s campaign; and whether or not you should believe the hype about Democrats flipping North Carolina this year.

Ryan Lizza is a Playbook co-author for POLITICO.
Roy Cooper is the governor of North Carolina.
Kara Tabor is a producer for POLITICO audio. 
Alex Keeney is a senior producer for POLITICO audio.

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